Topical discussion, no place for it in AH

OutlawPete

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Exactly, that's why, I for one, want no soccer related threads in AH.

What is wrong with people wanting to discuss scores or soccer at the World Cup?

Give me the worse case scenario of what could happen if there was ONE World Cup thread were people could discuss anything relating to it, including the football and scores (without mentioning the soccer forum please Micky).

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The Mods of AH have discussed this at length and even if one or two were willing to mod a mega thread.

God bless them, they had sense.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

.. inevitably we would all end up modding it when people are off line.

So what.

Is what you are you doing now easier??

Come on, now you have to keep your eye on five or six "non-soccer" World Cup threads in case anyone dares mention a goal.

It's laughable.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We are not soccer forum mods.

You're not Politics Forum mods either.

You want ALL Political threads banned from After Hours too?

My name is URL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Exactly, that's why, I for one, want no soccer related threads in AH.

The Mods of AH have discussed this at length and even if one or two were willing to mod a mega thread, inevitably we would all end up modding it when people are off line. We are not soccer forum mods.

That's just petty.. you're an AH mod. Can you please explain what exactly AH is if not a place for topical discussions* which would not be suitable in other fora?

You don't like football therefor it's a banned subject... ridiculous

*discussion in this case meaning the way a discussion develops and flows

SV

SV wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055938631

and even THIS gets locked?
this is disgraceful carry on.

That was a ridiculous decision in my mind.. I think he mustn't have seen what the thread was about or why I set it up.
"USA Win 1-1". That's not a discussion on results, that's a discussion on shite or trolling journalism.

And I've posted before about where each thread on After Hours should actually be.. Yet it's only Soccer that's so intensely monitored. You'd think the mods might have learned after the Henry incident.
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63132389&postcount=242


edit: The World Cup is a massive event on the world stage.. I don't want to wander of to the Soccer forum where I know nobody and there's none of the same humor to discuss it. One thread with the regulars you're used to is not too much too ask.

TheZohanS

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Exactly, that's why, I for one, want no soccer related threads in AH.

The Mods of AH have discussed this at length and even if one or two were willing to mod a mega thread, inevitably we would all end up modding it when people are off line. We are not soccer forum mods.

To be fair Micky you're not really an AH poster now are you? I can't remember you having ever posting in AH.

Biko did give plenty of warning about asking for soccer access, I think the thread might even still be stickied, he put this up a month ago. So posters cannot say they weren't warned.

IMO soccer threads should be closed, but the likes of the one that Micky closed where the US called a 1-1 score a win should be left and warnings given to stay on topic.

Yes it will create extra effort for mods but when you take on the job of mod you know what you're in for, mods should be modding for the benefit of the forum and not for what makes life handy or easier for them.

Aids By Google

This is the kind of thing that brought about a number of people leaving boards to form lolcaust and that other poker one. Irishpoker boards or something.

What next? ah or afterhours.ie as a new forum with all the regulars from boards.ie/AH ?

Unbelievable!

It is raining quite heavily outside now too

WindSock

There are 9 mods of AH now. And 3 CMods (One of whom is also listed as an AH mod)
I think that is the most there has ever been on AH from when I have been using boards. Surely a single mega thread will not be too difficult to handle between the lot of you? It's probably more work for you now over here in feedback responding to us whingers than it is to let a thread run.

Aids By Google

Aids By Google wrote: »

This is the kind of thing that brought about a number of people leaving boards to form lolcaust and that other poker one. Irishpoker boards or something.

What next? ah or afterhours.ie as a new forum with all the regulars from boards.ie/AH ?

Unbelievable!

It is raining quite heavily outside now too

You know alot for 162 posts :P

Brava

Aids By Google wrote: »

This is the kind of thing that brought about a number of people leaving boards to form lolcaust and that other poker one. Irishpoker boards or something.

What next? ah or afterhours.ie as a new forum with all the regulars from boards.ie/AH ?

Unbelievable!

It is raining quite heavily outside now too

TBH a lot of the regulars have moved on to private forums because of the modding in AH.

I think bringing on mods who have never posted in AH was a joke.

dr.bollocko

WindSock wrote: »

There are 9 mods of AH now. And 3 CMods (One of whom is also listed as an AH mod)
I think that is the most there has ever been on AH from when I have been using boards. Surely a single mega thread will not be too difficult to handle between the lot of you? It's probably more work for you now over here in feedback responding to us whingers than it is to let a thread run.

But if you have a megathread for the world cup and its people typing as they watch then that's a soccer forum situation. That's my thoughts on it. The reason it was closed was that it was already a post while you're watching style thread discussing the soccer (which is fine) however asking posters to post about the WC without posting about soccer is silly.
To have 4 or 5 threads about different aspects of the world cup which arent soccer forum material seems like a much more reasonable idea that facilitates discussion without the in-match discussion post while you're watching type megathread. So as you can see a number of threads have remained open on the WC. There is no blanket ban as has been demonstrated. Other threads which are directly relating to matches have been locked because there is a soccer forum with rules for access and those rules are there for a reason.
Strange things, annoyances and vuvuzelas or whatever they're called, well that's reasonable AH stuff. Discussion on the near miss Ghana just had there against Serbia is out and out soccer forum stuff.

We could go zero tolerance and blanket ban every thread on the WC or we can try and pick and keep hold of which ones are AH material.
Case by case. Because blanket bans piss people off.

Overheal

Megathread sounds like a bad idea. Wouldnt it just turn into match threads? The USA England game had at least 600-800 posts in the course of 90 minutes. Dupe that for each match in the group stages. And factor in AH's big crowd, along with the rambunctuous nature. did I spell that right? Rambunctuous?

I don't see how you would reasonably stop AH posters en masse from trying to post in it during a match and forbid them from discussing the match. Sounds like a headache. Unless the idea was to lock those threads when a match was on.

And where does this thread you just posted in belong? Out of interest..
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055938809

If we can have a thread about camping in After Hours instead of Outdoor Pursuits, I don't see the issue of having a thread that takes up the same room specifically set for the world cup.. This idea of separate threads clearly doesn't work since my thread mentioned above got locked for no reason.

dr.bollocko

Brava wrote: »

TBH a lot of the regulars have moved on to private forums because of the modding in AH.

I think bringing on mods who have never posted in AH was a joke.

In relation to CAFC we have done what we can there to help the guys out and it was with help from AH mods that that forum got pushed through to be fair. It was done hand in hand because one mega off topic thread was not something that would be good for AH. Now when you look at that forum, good as it is, it is all private forum flirting type stuff and is a lot less.... constrained than AH in terms of flirtation. So it has it's right place now and people are happy with that.
In relation to "because of the modding in ah" well that's just not very provable.

You're taking the locking of one thread as an indication that we have said NO DISCUSSION WE ARE THE MODS BLAH BLAH BLAH. Then in reply 4 threads were highlighted that are in AH and were open and were about the world cup. So there's discussion being facilitated.
So the title of the thread "Topical discussion, no place for it in AH" is pretty misleading to be fair.

My name is URL

What is the big deal if somebody posts about football in a WC Megathread? Seriously it's anal for there to be such a restriction on people during such an event. As has been said countless times, the discussion was about the WC and WC related things. It's not damaging to the Soccer forum if somebody mentions a score, and it's not damaging to AH if people are allowed to generally discuss it in one bloody thread

Disallowing discussion on the event is excessive and unfounded

Overheal, there were 600 posts in that thread because it was in the Soccer forum.. the thread in AH would have been mostly off-topic and that isn't allowed in match discussion threads in the Soccer forum

And as for it being a pain in the arse to mod, well maybe those mods that see modding as a pain in the arse should really reconsider if they want to be frigging Mods

dr.bollocko

Well URL that's part of a larger discussion about AH's place within boards. There is a soccer forum which has strict access policies. They're there for a reason. You're asking to circumvent those so people can post about soccer in AH.
In some cases, certainly mentioned earlier that is entirely reasonable. Henry cheating for example. In others, well you can leave it up to moderator discretion and say "no threads discussing it at all" which is needlessly nazi, or try and find a line where WC can be discussed.
In relation to this, personally I do not believe that the kind of discussion generated by the world cup will contain the same venom as past soccer related threads because it's international not club football and is a decent spectacle. Perhaps an open to all world cup forum would be the best thing because disallowing discussion to those who don't have access to soccer is not really something that sits well.
That said there has been no blanket ban. Just an attempt to keep soccer discussion out of after hours as has always been the case.
So from an AH POV we have the following possibilities:

No talk at all of WC / soccer and move it all to soccer forum which many don't have access to.

1 mega thread about the world cup which does not allow soccer forum type discussion.

1 mega thread which people are free to talk about all aspects of the world cup because its only in one thread.

A bunch of smaller threads which the stranger or more off topic aspects of the world cup being discussed AH style and other threads which are directly football related being locked. (They are locked as the soccer forum mods discourage the moving of threads to their forum)


Personally I prefer the last option (the one we're going with at the mo) as it sticks best to the ethos of AH as I see it. I don't think implying we're power mad or blanket banning topics outright is fair at all because we have specifically tried to avoid that.

RonMexico

After Hours has gone to ****e, what was once the gem of boards has been ruined by humourless OTT modding. I don't want to go through the hassle of registering for the soccer forum which looks like the kind of place where you have to walk on eggshells 24/7. Now there is nowhere to have a funny shoot the **** World Cup discussion. Well done to the genius behind that decision.

jd007

dr.bollocko wrote: »

In relation to CAFC...
[...]

[Wildly off topic] Sorry, what's CAFC? [/wildly off topic]

My name is URL

Dr B.. imho, allowing a thread for people to discuss all things WC does not mean that there needs to be sea of change in the way of how AH is run or what it means. It's simply a bit of leeway being shown to its regular posters who are interested in talking about a subject in a way which only AH can accomodate

Personally I'd like to see a megathread rather than a whole load of threads about weird stuff pertaining to the WC

The restrictions in the Soccer forum are there because those that choose to actively post there are usually die hard football fans, and discussions can become very heated. A thread in AH could easily avoid such heated debate with a simple warning to those posting in it.

I can't wrap my head around why the thread needed to be closed for the reasons stated. Somebody mentioned football.. dear god, it's not going to cause space-time to collapse in on itself

dr.bollocko

Its handier as a regular poster to have a mega thread sometimes. So for yourself and others (the reg'lars) that's a good solution. However for new posters and those who don't use AH as their regular hang out those mega threads can be unfriendly places, can often be ignored. They are by definition large, move fast and tend to jump from one topic to another. So if, for example, tomorrow, we have a debate about an aspect of soccer in AH, I dunno, Kaka's leg gets blown off by a mine or they discover the pitch in jo'burg is built on an ancient wasp burial site or whatever there's a discussion worthy of a thread of it's own. That'd be my take on it.
We have already stated on a sticky up for a month or so saying there won't be soccer related discussion on after hours. The lack of an open forum to post about the world cup is regrettable tbh. The lack of that puts AH prime in the spot to inherit such discussion.
Hmmm.

Brava

dr.bollocko wrote: »

In relation to CAFC we have done what we can there to help the guys out and it was with help from AH mods that that forum got pushed through to be fair. It was done hand in hand because one mega off topic thread was not something that would be good for AH. Now when you look at that forum, good as it is, it is all private forum flirting type stuff and is a lot less.... constrained than AH in terms of flirtation. So it has it's right place now and people are happy with that.
In relation to "because of the modding in ah" well that's just not very provable.

You're taking the locking of one thread as an indication that we have said NO DISCUSSION WE ARE THE MODS BLAH BLAH BLAH. Then in reply 4 threads were highlighted that are in AH and were open and were about the world cup. So there's discussion being facilitated.
So the title of the thread "Topical discussion, no place for it in AH" is pretty misleading to be fair.

There were about 70% of the posts in that thread about those poxy horns. Some posters did speak about football but why not delete those posts and leave the thread open? It was a giggle.

My name is URL

I don't see why it would be any different or more difficult to mod than any other thread tbh. The lack of a WC forum has very little to do with it as far as I can tell. It's just another topic which those who post in AH want to discuss. There could be a seperate forum for the discussion on it but what would the charter read? "This forum is for talking about the WC in an AH sort of way"! Would it not be easier to just allow it as a once off in AH?.. otherwise it would be just another Soccer forum

The rule against it is like the old rule against eating meat on a Friday.. unheard of but ultimately of little consequence

OutlawPete

dr.bollocko wrote: »

But if you have a megathread for the world cup and its people typing as they watch then that's a soccer forum situation.

I take part in the Villa Match threads in the Soccer Forum and they are just a totally different animal.

I think that anyone that really wants to discuss tactics and every move that is made on a pitch while the match is in-play, will want to do so with Soccer Forum regulars, not with fair weather soccer fans who just watch the World Cup games and Qualifiers.

I doubt they would lower themselves to be honest.

I watched one match as I posted on Jonjo's thread and got the impression that even if we could have discussed the actions on the pitch, we would still have been posting gags about the horns in the crowd .. (oh matron ).

dr.bollocko wrote: »

To have 4 or 5 threads about different aspects of the world cup which arent soccer forum material seems like a much more reasonable idea that facilitates discussion without the in-match discussion ..

But there inevitably be match discussion on those threads.

I can't see people discussing one aspect of the World Cup on a thread when England or France are playing at the same time and just not mention that.

I understand the thinking behind it, your trying not to blanket ban all WC threads but it asking way too much for people not to discuss soccer on those threads.

It's just far too tempting to discuss matches on them as it may very well be relevant.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

There is no blanket ban as has been demonstrated.

No, but there IS a blanket ban and discussing matches, why?

I understand 'Club Football' not being discussed as it throws people into tribe type debate mentality.

However, International sporting events of high public interest (I also include the Grand National here) should NOT and NEVER should have been restricted to specific forums.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Other threads which are directly relating to matches have been locked because there is a soccer forum with rules for access and those rules are there for a reason.

The Soccer Forum should not have the monopoly on discussion of International Soccer, it's a current affairs and general interest topic and regular users should be catered for if that is what they wish to talk about.

The Soccer Forum should NEVER have been allowed to lay claim to International Sporting events like this.

It's disgraceful.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Discussion on the near miss Ghana just had there against Serbia is out and out soccer forum stuff.

Why is it "Soccer Forum stuff"?

I understand that that is the way it is, but why is that way?

Who decided that International Soccer (and the Grand National) could not be discussed in AH?

dr.bollocko wrote: »

We could go zero tolerance and blanket ban every thread on the WC or we can try and pick and keep hold of which ones are AH material.

I like Soccer and already all these threads are annoying me in AH and we are only a few days in. Four or five threads being started each day for a month, all with a different World Cup based topics is really going to start to grate with those that hate soccer.

At least people could just ignore one thread.

Isn't it harder to keep an eye on multiple WC threads for soccer discussion when you could just keep an eye the one?

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Because blanket bans piss people off.

Sure there is a blanket ban on discussing International Soccer though and THAT is pissing people off.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

There is a soccer forum which has strict access policies. They're there for a reason.

That is really there because of what happens when people discuss 'Club Football', is it not?

Nobody wants 'Club Football' threads allowed in After Hours as they are not 'current affairs'.

Well, not when you take into account that everyone supports different teams at least.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Perhaps an open to all world cup forum would be the best thing because disallowing discussion to those who don't have access to soccer is not really something that sits well.

Yeah, an International Soccer forum open to all Boards members would be great but I still believe that one WC thread to discuss matches in AH is needed and would be no where near the doomsday scenario that is being painted.

I still have no idea what Mods are trying to prevent happening. What exactly are AH Mods trying to circumvent? What are you worried would happen on such a thread?

So what if users discuss scores and footie on a WC megathread.

Mods can't read all posts in a thread anyway, there is a report button for people to use if some fools start getting hot under the collar.

There have been threads on NI that have had a 1000 posts in a matter of days and I am sure Mods must have just relied on users reporting posts in those scenarios.

Sometimes I think decisions in After Hours are made just because 'that is the way things are done and we are sticking to it'.

A little change or flexibility wouldn't hurt from time to time and might just make the forum more fun.

We always hear how AH is a pub scenario, yet here we have a pub where there is a match on the TV, but the punters can't talk about it.

There is Soccer supporters club just down the road for that.

Only thing is, they don't have the cast of characters that After Hours does and so the type of World Cup there, is not what we are after at all.

K-9

It seems a bit silly to allow certain types of WC threads and not allow posting of scores. As long as it doesn't start getting into debates about stuff, which is Soccer Forum stuff, not AH, can't see how there would be a problem.

The problem is, some threads have been allowed, rather than none. Now the usual "where's the line?" type stuff comes up when that happens.

The thing is that this will happen any time anything off massive interest goes against the charter.. You'll have all us regulars in here trying to argue for a single thread. The World Cup is every four years, Olympics every four years etc. It's hardly breaking down AH's policies to have a single thread for these big topical events when they do arise. It'd save all this hassle each time..

There's a competition in work with everyone from myself at 22 to 45 year old women guessing the scores of each match. I think that shows that this is more than just a soccer event.. It's one of the biggest ongoing news and conversation topics the world over. Fek all people want or have the knowledge to post to the quality the Soccer Forum expects, we just want somewhere to have the banter and light conversation.

Jazzy

the AH mods tend to be the n00bies to moderating so they often wade in and lock threads and do stuff without really thinking about it. i think they are often playing catchup a lot of the time so they just close threads instead of trying to facilitate them

rovert

Most of the soccer AH thread have turned into fans versus non-fans which just lead to trouble.

K-9

What's the main reason soccer threads aren't allowed in AH?

Is it people getting past bans?

stovelid

rovert wrote: »

Most of the soccer AH thread have turned into fans versus non-fans which just lead to trouble.

You, essentially.

rovert

stovelid wrote: »

You, essentially.

^ This is the type of stuff Im talking about. I made a joke point about get rid of midfield and people started losing their ****.

Xavi6

The Soccer Forum should not have the monopoly on discussion of International Soccer, it's a current affairs and general interest topic and regular users should be catered for if that is what they wish to talk about.

The Soccer Forum should NEVER have been allowed to lay claim to International Sporting events like this.

Sorry Pete but the Soccer forum has never asked for a monopoly or laid full claim to anything.

If we did there would be no discussion anywhere on boards except within our walls, yet the Gambling forum has it's own World Cup sub forum.

Big unfair to try blame us for this.

OutlawPete

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sorry Pete but the Soccer forum has never asked for a monopoly or laid full claim to anything..

I never said the Soccer Forum "asked" for a monopoly, just pointed out that it has one.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Big unfair to try blame us for this.

I apologise if you or the forum feel that I was trying to blame the Soccer Forum, that wasn't my intention.

I asked above, who had decided that International Soccer (as well as Club Soccer) could not be discussed in AH, as I have no idea how the situation came about that International Soccer was bundled along with Club Soccer as a no-no to be discussed in AH.

My "laying claim" comment was more to do with AH Moderators demanding that anyone who wishes to discuss International soccer, join the Soccer Forum as it has no place in AH.

As has been said, there was even a sticky for months saying as much.

So while you / the soccer forum may not be 'laying claim' to all soccer discussions, that is in essence what is happening.

It is without doubt a nonsense that, on a current affairs forum like AH, we cannot discuss the World Cup or even our own International games, without being told that that type of talk belongs in the Soccer Forum.

That suggests that the forum does indeed have a monopoly when it comes to soccer discussion, wheter those behind the forum want one or not.

Again, I totally understand the need for such a forum, but Internaional soccer is not and should not be treated the same as Club Soccer, they are not one in the same.