Dunnes Stores - Ennis - No Bags

BnB

We called into Dunnes Stores in Ennis today to pick up a few bits for a party we were on the way to. My wife bought about €50 worth of groceries and asked for 1 bag to put the fiddly bits into. The girl behind the counter said "Sorry, we're out of bags" So she offered us either a cooler bag (for €1) or we could buy a roll of bin bags. But what really bugged me was, she had loads of paper bags there and when I asked for one, she told me that we had to buy something from the drapery to get one. It wasn't enough to spend €50 on groceries.... we would have to buy a pair of socks to get a precious paper bag.

Now, I am not one for confrontation. My way of dealing with that kind of service is I normally just say nothing and make my protest by not going back. So I just walked away while my wife packed toothpaste and biscuts into her handbag. But, as I was standing around I was getting more annoyed at the madness of it. I saw a supervisor/manager type person at the next till (I think she might have been dealing with a similar problem to my own).

Anyway, I went up to her and asked her for a paper bag. She gave me the same sceal, unless we buy something from the drapery, we can't get one. Buy a cooler bag of a roll of bin bags. I was getting more and more p1ssed. I said, are you serious. I just spent €50 on a few groceries and you won't give me a bag for them. She then told me that it wasn't her fault they were out of bags. I told her that while it might not be her fault it most certainly wasn't mine and all I want is a paper bag so I can walk out to the car without having to juggle an armful of groceries with 3 kids.

At this point I just said, feck it and reached over the counter and tried to pick up one of the paper bags myself, but of course I dropped the freggin thing. She told me not to be trying to steal bags..... But it obviously showed her that I was p1ssed and she got one of the bags and gave it to me. She made some kind of a comment like.."If it means that much to you you can have it".

So I just said to her, why do you not want to give me a paper bag.... And she stuck to the company line.... "Because they are for drapery only..." And I said to her, I understand that in normal circumstances, but you have no other bags available... what will happen because you gave me a paper bag... Will the world stop turning..?" She then came out with.... "I could get fired... I have a mortgage too you know...."

I looked at her, I just couldn't believe the muck she had come out with. I looked at her for a few seconds.. thought about it... I took my box of Krispies out of the bag she had given me and dropped the bag on the floor and just walked away before I completely blew my freggin lid...

Now... I don't know... As I said, I'm not one for complaining... I never do. I have no problem with them running out of bags. It's bad management, but these things happen. And if they didn't have the paper bags, I wouldn't have given it a second thought. But the fact was they had stacks of paper bags behind the couter and were refusing to give them out. And it wasn't just me. As I was having a barney with the supervisor, there was at least 2 more customers standing at the tills around us who I could see were nodding and agreeing with me.

Apoligies for the ramble, I just really wanted to get it off my chest.

Was I right or did I over-react ? Should I complain to Dunnes tomorrow or should I not bother my butt and forget about it?

dudara

I think you completely over-reacted.

I do agree that it would have made sense for them to give you a paper bag as they didn't have any others.

However, trying to grab and then dropping the bag like a petulant child was a complete over-reaction.

coco0981

This is a problem nationwide in dunnes and its not that they have all run out of plastic bags. Its because head office have instructed them to stop selling the plastic bags due to a dispute they are having with the revenue over the amount of tax they owe on the plastic bag levy. It seems that none of the staff are aware of this though. You will notice stands of Killeen plastic bags at the checkouts now as these do not fall under the terms of the levy.

None of this is relevant to whether they should have given you a paper bag but just thought i'd post it:)

Edit: Link to story below
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0126/1224263123233.html

Shelflife

dudara wrote: »

I think you completely over-reacted.

I do agree that it would have made sense for them to give you a paper bag as they didn't have any others.

However, trying to grab and then dropping the bag like a petulant child was a complete over-reaction.

In all fairness dudara its not unreasonable to expect that the store would have some way for the customer to get their groceries to their car.

imo its a total over reaction by the manager to treat the customer in this way when all the customer wanted was a bag, being told to buy bin bags was laughable when they had a ready made solution (paper bags) in the store.

i would write to head office and ask for an explaination.

BnB

dudara wrote: »

I think you completely over-reacted.

I do agree that it would have made sense for them to give you a paper bag as they didn't have any others.

However, trying to grab and then dropping the bag like a petulant child was a complete over-reaction.

Do you really think so. I didn't raise my voice. I was perfectly calm. I only really lost the head when yer one told me she could get fired. I didn't "grab" for the bag behind the counter. As I was standing beside the low grocery counter when I was talking to her they were just beside me about a foot away from my hand. I just reached out to pick one up. The reason I dropped it was that she made a grab for them when I had it in my hand.

Maybe dropping the bag on the floor in the end and walking off was a bit petulant, but when she told me that she could get fired for giving it to me and how she had a mortgage to pay, I just couldn't listen to any more.

What really bugged me was that from the very start of the conversation she was trying to make me out to be the bad guy...

"Sure why wouldn't you just buy a roll of bin bags..."

"It's not my fault we're out of bags..."

"I have a mortgage too you know..." ( "Too..!!!" Ironically I don't, but that's another story)

BnB

coco1981 wrote: »

This is a problem nationwide in dunnes and its not that they have all run out of plastic bags. Its because head office have instructed them to stop selling the plastic bags due to a dispute they are having with the revenue over the amount of tax they owe on the plastic bag levy. It seems that none of the staff are aware of this though. You will notice stands of Killeen plastic bags at the checkouts now as these do not fall under the terms of the levy.

None of this is relevant to whether they should have given you a paper bag but just thought i'd post it:)

Edit: Link to story below
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0126/1224263123233.html

That looks like the explaination alright Coco. I hadn't heard about that. Here is a thread about it on askaboutmoney.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1046206

wmpdd3

Yeah, the revenue want to charge supermarkets for how many plastic bags they bring into the stores rather than how many are actually sold.

The issue with the lack of one-use plastic bags in Dunnes is well known to staff but they are probably teffified to be heard commenting to customers on it.

About the supervisor getting fired, this is Dunnes, she would probably have gotten something much worse than that.

Couldn't the OP just have taken an empty box from the shelves like he would in Aldi!

Mumha

I'd have returned my €50 of groceries and gone elsewhere. The customer has to be king and should be treated as such.

BnB

wmpdd3 wrote: »

..Couldn't the OP just have taken an empty box from the shelves like he would in Aldi!

If that had been an option, I would have gone with it. If the supervisor said, sorry we have no bags, but here is a cardboard box, I would have been happy as larry. And you can't really do it yourself in Dunnes as they don't really leave the boxes lying around.

In my local Centra they stack all the cardboard boxes up beside the till and everyone uses them. I think it's a great idea.

I couldn't even use the freggin basket to take them out because there was a bloody security tag on it.

And do you know what really bugged me.... Not that I had to walk to the car with the stuff, but that my wife wanted to walk around the drapery for a few minutes to pick up a few bits for the kids and I didn't want to have to be balancing a pack of nappies in one hand and a box of krispies in the other while trying to keep 3 kids under control. If yer one had just given me a bag, we probably would have spent a few more quid in the drapery.

BnB

Mumha wrote: »

I'd have returned my €50 of groceries and gone elsewhere. The customer has to be king and should be treated as such.

I did think of that myself on the way out and thought about turning back, but I just thought... Life's too short, I couldn't be botherd my butt. If I had realised their bag policy before we had paid for the groceries, I possibly would have just left them there at the till and not paid. But we had them paid for before I realised their paper bags were so freggin precious.

P. Breathnach

How long is it since the tax on plastic bags was introduced?

That's how much time we have had to learn to bring bags with us when we go shopping.

dohouch

"the difference is we're Irish"

Cabaal

BnB wrote: »

We called into Dunnes Stores in Ennis today to pick up a few bits for a party we were on the way to. My wife bought about €50 worth of groceries and asked for 1 bag to put the fiddly bits into. The girl behind the counter said "Sorry, we're out of bags" So she offered us either a cooler bag (for €1) or we could buy a roll of bin bags.

Here's where I'm confused, you were willing to pay the bag levy for a tiny crap bag but you wouldn't pay 1e for a much bigger re-usable bag,

Sure you wanted the other bags but they can't physically sell you what they don't have.

Buy a cooler bag of a roll of bin bags. I was getting more and more p1ssed. I said, are you serious. I just spent €50 on a few groceries and you won't give me a bag for them. She then told me that it wasn't her fault they were out of bags. I told her that while it might not be her fault it most certainly wasn't mine and all I want is a paper bag so I can walk out to the car without having to juggle an armful of groceries with 3 kids.

Paper bags are not designed for shopping and as such they are weak as crap, I honestly don't blame the manager for giving you one.

Had they given you one and it broke half way to the car you would have been back to that manager to complain to them

At this point I just said, feck it and reached over the counter and tried to pick up one of the paper bags myself, but of course I dropped the freggin thing.

Back out of order in my books,
You have no place reaching behind any counter for anything, "but of course I dropped it" is a pointless defense. As far as anyone concerned at the time you were chancing your arm trying to take a bag dispite being told you could not.

She told me not to be trying to steal bags....

Lets be honest you have to admit thats what it looks like to staff, people passing and the CCTV....nobody knows what your actually thinking.

But it obviously showed her that I was p1ssed and she got one of the bags and gave it to me. She made some kind of a comment like.."If it means that much to you you can have it".

I don't blame her, she was sick to the back teeth of you.

So I just said to her, why do you not want to give me a paper bag.... And she stuck to the company line.... "Because they are for drapery only..." And I said to her, I understand that in normal circumstances, but you have no other bags available... what will happen because you gave me a paper bag... Will the world stop turning..?" She then came out with.... "I could get fired... I have a mortgage too you know...."

See my point above, they are not designed for grocery shopping as such they break very easily,

The last thing she needs is customers coming back complaining the bag broke.

I looked at her, I just couldn't believe the muck she had come out with. I looked at her for a few seconds.. thought about it... I took my box of Krispies out of the bag she had given me and dropped the bag on the floor and just walked away before I completely blew my freggin lid...

Very childish behaviour imho

Do you not bring your own re-usable bags with you when you do your shopping like pretty much everyone else?

Cabaal

BnB wrote: »

The reason I dropped it was that she made a grab for them when I had it in my hand.

She was perfectly within her rights to attempt to take the bag off you, you had no place taking it without permisson

Maybe dropping the bag on the floor in the end and walking off was a bit petulant, but when she told me that she could get fired for giving it to me and how she had a mortgage to pay, I just couldn't listen to any more.

You don't know her personal circumstances, she may have just been nice in the past and given different stuff for free or stuff she wasn't supposed to give out and she may have got a warning for it. She very well could get fired for it.

borderlinemeath

You should have your own reusable bags with you if you were going to shop for €50 worth of groceries.

Also would it have killed you to spend another €1 on a reusable bag? You were willing to spend 22c on one that you would throw away.

Reaching behind the counter to get a paper bag when they are not in any way obliged to give you one is bullyish behaviour and I'm not suprised the manager stood her ground. Whatever about her getting into trouble from head office/ higher management - if she gave in to your unreasonable demands and set a precendent then it can be used against her.

And yes - your demands were unreasonable as you were given options to either buy a reusable bag or buy bin bags but you choose bully tactics to try and get your own way.

While they have boxes in Aldi and Lidl - they are not always available or you have to root one off the shelf before you start. But they don't give the option of the 22c bag either.

mneylon

I wish Dunnes would sort out this stupid dispute, as their staff are obviously not aware of it.
The local Dunnes staff were downright rude to me when I asked for a bag last week and forced me to buy a longlife bag that I really didn't want

testicle

Definite over-reaction on behalf of the OP. He threw a tantrum like a 3 year old would.

eightyfish

The problem here is not the manager (aside from the alleged rudeness) but the company policy. If you're not happy with it, take your business elsewhere, preferably to another Irish supermarket.

I do think the OP should have been given a paper bag, though, even if it was an over-reaction. Bad customer service. I'd have just asked for a refund and left if it bothered me that much.

rubadub

Cabaal wrote: »

Paper bags are not designed for shopping and as such they are weak as crap, I honestly don't blame the manager for giving you one.

+1 those bags are not strong enough when you have concentrated weights in corners of the bags, they are strong enough to hold heavy towels well distributed though, a bottle of wine in the corner could split it easily.

They really should have got those bin liner type bags and took them out and charge for them individually like regular bags, though some bin liners are not that strong either. They should have really been black sacks as a goodwill gesture as the customer could have also reused the black sack. Or else given those bags for life for free, and just charge the levy.

But from reading other posts it seems dunnes are not that concerned with goodwill.

P.S. Can you imagine if this thread had been about tesco!

LaughOrDie

You lost the head when she said she could get fired? Obviously you never worked in Dunnes and the had the experience of working under their tyranny and stupid policies.

If anything her saying that should have made you understand and maybe back off or ask a manager. But no, you acted like a spoilt child and went to grab one even after being specifically told no.

I'm not debating that they should have just given you the bag and you should make a complaint to their head office but give the people who have to serve you a break.

People who work face to face with people have to put up with crap all day and don't make enough money to justify peoples rudeness.

Be Nice.......and don't shop at Dunnes..they're pants!

TheDriver

I'm with you OP, you didn't overreact but rather asked management for help with a customer. I rarely but sometimes forget my bags due to them not being in the car etc so it does happen and who wants a blasted cooler bag!! I would have left the 50 euro of groceries explaining politely that you can't carry them to the car or else point to those signs that say we will help bring your shopping to the car....

jor el

Dunnes probably have this policy because paper bags are no good for carrying groceries, and if the bag tears then Dunnes will have to deal with irate customers holding them responsible for giving out sub-standard bags.

Why not just buy a €1 reusable carrier bag? Seems that would have been the sensible decision.

yoyo

I had to pay 70c the last time in Dunnes for one of their re-useable bags as they didn't have the 30c lighter ones (didn't realise the reason why they'd run out until reading this thread). Incidentally Tescos re-useable bag is around 35c iirc so the 70c is robbery

How long is it since the tax on plastic bags was introduced?

That's how much time we have had to learn to bring bags with us when we go shopping.

I was on the way home from somewhere and wanted to pick up a few cans and groceries, It isnt possible to carry around reuseable bags all day with you so there are times when you will find it conveneint to pop into the shop and pay for a bag, I also think it is illegal to carry alcoholic drinks (so I'm told) without being in a bag so I also baught one to avoid that hassle aswell if it had happened

Nick

Yawns

Use a trolly maybe?

Sonz

Well what i dont get about the Ennis Dunness stores is... they stopped selling the bags, then they brought them back in... just to get rid of them again. :rolleyes:

chalkitdown

jor el wrote: »

Dunnes probably have this policy because paper bags are no good for carrying groceries, and if the bag tears then Dunnes will have to deal with irate customers holding them responsible for giving out sub-standard bags.

Why not just buy a €1 reusable carrier bag? Seems that would have been the sensible decision.

Paper bags are used everyday all over the world to carry grocery items. There is no reason why supermarkets here don't supply them.

JohnC.

chalkitdown wrote: »

Paper bags are used everyday all over the world to carry grocery items. There is no reason why supermarkets here don't supply them.

And people all over the world complain about them tearing every day.

Corruptedmorals

What people don't get is that your average paper bag is not suitable for groceries. A dunnes paper bag is much worse than those, they are absolute crap and if the customer is buying say 2 pairs of jeans a pair of heels and a hoody- it has to be double bagged or it'll break. They are a joke. They will not work for groceries unless you're buying very light stuff.

Most Dunnes supermarkets won't actually have the paper bags at all. The drapery tills run out of them really fast and there generally isn't enough to go around. A lot of people will ask for one at drapery tills with groceries in their hands. Some people are unwilling to give them out, and you wouldn't give them out in front of a manager, but I always do...2 because 1 isn't enough. I don't know enough about the plastic bag dispute but it sounds typical Dunnes, there's disputed with a few newspapers too..same sort of story. Bring your own bags for Dunnes really.

Boxes would be available in Dunnes, just ask. In drapery they are crushed faurly early on but stock is put out til 10/11 in Dunnes supermarkets so that wouldn't be a problem.

Mimojo

I really think this is SUCH an overreaction, about a bag for god sake.

Have you every worked as a checkout operator, for minimum wages, crappy hours, dealing with irate customers day in day out? Clearly not.

Yes they should have had bags, they should have them for sale, but treating the checkout person in such a way, and going so far as to lean in over the counter and take a bag is well out of order.

I have direct experience with supermarkets, and with the recession every single cent counts, and checkout operators will have all their bags counted and it is literally not worth given them out to customers. I know where I work staff get written warnings for not being able to account for all bags given to them at the start of a shift. Yes it is incredible, and seems crazy, but it is what happens.

Their policy is to give our papers bags for drapery only, fair enough. They did offer an alternative, clearly not the alternative you wanted, but an alternative all the same, and that behavior is unbelievable.

Just bring your own bags like everyone else!

djdunny

I remember a few years ago when I used to work in Dunnes I had a bit of a similar incident. I was working on a busy Friday night on the express checkout and some Spanish students purchased some items but then realised that they would need a bag. they grabbed the bag but i tried to explain to them that the cost 22c. they looked at me completely blank and didn't understand a word i was saying. so after much time trying to explain to them and a lot of tutting from the queuing customers i just gave them the bag.

So on comes the next lady who say " i supposed ill be getting a free bag as well", i replied "no, they're 22c" so on it went she basically accusing me of discrimination and all that. went up and complained me to my manager and also made a follow up phone call AND letter. also did the usual threat of going on Joe Duffy.

So a few days later i get called up to the managers office where im greeted by the HR manager and the store manager and they proceed to grill me over my actions. Their main concern was that i gave out a free bag and not so much about the irate customer.

I ended up getting a warning for that.

Nolimits

So Op, let me get this straight, the bags are Dunnes Stores property, they are under no obligation to give them too you. You asked if you could have one they said that you couldn't so rather than accepting this you decided to reach over a counter (that you had no business doing) and try to take them anyway. Then threw it on the ground and walked off.

You mentioned you have kids, I'm sure there are times when they think your being as unfair as you felt Dunnes were, how would you react if your childern acted like you did?