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Dunnes Stores - Ennis - No Bags
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I'll start with this...or do I even need to comment on it?To answer your question straight, if I told my kids No, and they went ahead and did something, Yes of course I would get cross with them.
But I don't that that is a fair analagy. A Parent - Child relationship is very different from a Customer - Manager relationship.
For example, if I was at work and my boss told me I had to do something, I would do it. Wheather I like it or not, he's the boss. If I was walking down the road and a Garda asked me to stop up because he wanted to ask me something, I would stop up.
But in this situation, I was a paying customer. While it was probably wrong to just pick up the bag myself, I certainly don't think it was wrong to argue my case with her.
I didn't go looking for a battle. I am one of the most unconfrontational people you could meet. But I picked up the bag in the end out of pure frustration. The thought did enter my mind to give the groceries back and look for money back, but I didn't want the hassle. I just wanted to get a freggin bag to put my groceries in so I could go.
Your right about a parent child relationship being different but your also an adult so you should be held to higher standard. It's nice to see you concede that it was "probably" wrong to take something that doesn't belong to you.
As I mentioned in another thread just today I work for dunnes, that's why the part about you taking the bag is what's annoying me, you were right to want a bag and they should have given you one, but if they didn't you should have withheld your custom and or made a complaint you shoudln't have taken matters into your own hands. With no offence inteded to you here I see people act like spoilt children on a weekly basis and obviously in work I just grin and bare it so maybe I'm being a little hard on you in this case. I'm glad you got an apology I'm just wondering if you'll apologise to the manager next time you see her about your own behaviour? if nothing else I can tell you it will be a first for her and she'll always make sure your looked after in future she was afterall just doing her job.0 -
I would have left the shopping there and walked out after all I spend 200 quid a week in there. I would have spoken to a manager there and then and refused to move until one spoke to me. I worked for dunnes for 3 years. So what if I'm acting like a spoilt child I'm sick of it week after week after week of some sort of issue popping up. Like the other person it gets to you and you end up flipping out. Did it in tescos once said fine take the trolley ( they didn't and gave me the item at price shown).0
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BnB you were 100% right!!!
I've only read the first page of the thead coz I don't have time to read the rest however..for all those saying he should have just bought a reusable bag/roll of bin bags/brought his own bag....your missing the point entirely, its the priciple of the matter!!
Dunnes failed to have an adequate supply of carrier bags etc. thus inconvieniencing the customer..it is unexceptable for a supermarket not to have a simple thing such as carrier bags available (whatever their reason)so when they do run out they should go out of thier way to compensate the customer..ie..give them as many paper bags as they want.!!
The attitude of the supervisor was unexcusable and if I were you I would get her name and make an official complaint I also would never shop in that Dunnes again. Her attitude doesnt suprise me though as Dunnes have the worst customer service by far..all the supervisors have NO authority or ability to use their personal desscretion to deal with situation and are OBSESSED with 'company policy' and won't bend the rules.
For all those who think life is too short to argue over petty things like this..good for you but personally this sh1te really p1sses me off!!If your a 'valued customer' you should be treated like one END OF!
I worked for SuperValu for 6 years and I think I woulda been sacked for not offering to give you the paper bag in that situation...its basic customer service!!0 -
BebhinnHeaven wrote: »give them as many paper bags as they want.!!
Why are people finding it hard to understand that these bags are not suitable for groceries? I've seen so many of these tearing apart when people stuff groceries into them.0 -
BebhinnHeaven wrote: »BnB you were 100% right!!!
as Dunnes have the worst customer service by far..all the supervisors have NO authority or ability to use their personal desscretion to deal with situation and are OBSESSED with 'company policy' and won't bend the rules.
For all those who think life is too short to argue over petty things like this..good for you but personally this sh1te really p1sses me off!!If your a 'valued customer' you should be treated like one END OF!
I worked for SuperValu for 6 years and I think I woulda been sacked for not offering to give you the paper bag in that situation...its basic customer service!!
As previously said on this thread - Dunnes are rigid with their policies and while you say "OBSESSED" to a dunnes employee this means stick by the rules or get disciplined/warned/fired.
I was in my local Dunnes this evening and the guy in front of me wanted a 22c bagthe girl politely told him that they don't have them any more but offered him a bag for life. So they seem to know whats happening in my Dunnes.0 -
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BebhinnHeaven wrote: »BnB you were 100% right!!!
I've only read the first page of the thead coz I don't have time to read the rest however..for all those saying he should have just bought a reusable bag/roll of bin bags/brought his own bag....your missing the point entirely, its the priciple of the matter!!
Dunnes failed to have an adequate supply of carrier bags etc. thus inconvieniencing the customer..it is unexceptable for a supermarket not to have a simple thing such as carrier bags available (whatever their reason)so when they do run out they should go out of thier way to compensate the customer..ie..give them as many paper bags as they want.!!
The attitude of the supervisor was unexcusable and if I were you I would get her name and make an official complaint I also would never shop in that Dunnes again. Her attitude doesnt suprise me though as Dunnes have the worst customer service by far..all the supervisors have NO authority or ability to use their personal desscretion to deal with situation and are OBSESSED with 'company policy' and won't bend the rules.
For all those who think life is too short to argue over petty things like this..good for you but personally this sh1te really p1sses me off!!If your a 'valued customer' you should be treated like one END OF!
I worked for SuperValu for 6 years and I think I woulda been sacked for not offering to give you the paper bag in that situation...its basic customer service!!
If you bother to read the whole thread then post again. You comments have been covered. He was offered other bags but refused. He wasn't given a paper bag because in all likely hood even just the nappies he was carryign would have ripped the bag, they are that ****.
If he had been given a bag and it ripped there would be a thread about how **** the bags were blah blah no other bags available. Just go shop in tescos, always bags there.0 -
Yes, you totally over-reacted and you were obnoxious to the manager also. You don't have a right to lean over the counter for a bag, thats down right cheek in my book. You doubted your reactions on Boards and you still took the time to email Dunnes to complain.
What were you looking for out of this?? And you seem happy with a phone call from a regional manager. I wonder how many other calls he had to make yesterday :rolleyes:0 -
BebhinnHeaven wrote: »BnB you were 100% right!!!
I've only read the first page of the thead coz I don't have time to read the rest however..for all those saying he should have just bought a reusable bag/roll of bin bags/brought his own bag....your missing the point entirely, its the priciple of the matter!!
Dunnes failed to have an adequate supply of carrier bags etc. thus inconvieniencing the customer..it is unexceptable for a supermarket not to have a simple thing such as carrier bags available (whatever their reason)so when they do run out they should go out of thier way to compensate the customer..ie..give them as many paper bags as they want.!!
The attitude of the supervisor was unexcusable and if I were you I would get her name and make an official complaint I also would never shop in that Dunnes again. Her attitude doesnt suprise me though as Dunnes have the worst customer service by far..all the supervisors have NO authority or ability to use their personal desscretion to deal with situation and are OBSESSED with 'company policy' and won't bend the rules.
For all those who think life is too short to argue over petty things like this..good for you but personally this sh1te really p1sses me off!!If your a 'valued customer' you should be treated like one END OF!
I worked for SuperValu for 6 years and I think I woulda been sacked for not offering to give you the paper bag in that situation...its basic customer service!!
Yeah you didn't work for Dunnes though. What head office says is law and why would anyone risk their job to specifically do something for a customer they have been told not to do? It's not their fault.0 -
No. Go back to my post...
And read the part in brackets.As I mentioned in another thread just today I work for dunnes, that's why the part about you taking the bag is what's annoying me, you were right to want a bag and they should have given you one, but if they didn't you should have withheld your custom and or made a complaint you shoudln't have taken matters into your own hands. With no offence inteded to you here I see people act like spoilt children on a weekly basis and obviously in work I just grin and bare it so maybe I'm being a little hard on you in this case. I'm glad you got an apology I'm just wondering if you'll apologise to the manager next time you see her about your own behaviour? if nothing else I can tell you it will be a first for her and she'll always make sure your looked after in future she was afterall just doing her job.
NO Limits & Magenta - I'll answer the two of you together if you don't mind as I think ye're both trying to make similar points
I think that you both agree that (and do correct me if I am wrong)
a) It was perfectly reasonable of me to ask for a paper bag.
and
b) It was very unreasonable of her not to give me one considering they were out of plastic ones bags.
I have already said, I should not have dropped the bag on the ground and walked away. It was childish and un-neccessary. I am sure you would agree with me on that too.
So what we disagree on is wheather I should have tried to take a bag myself or not.
NoLimits, you suggested I should have withheld my custom instead. We had already paid before we were told we couldn't have a bag. If I had known before we paid, then that is probably what I would have done. But having already paid, I did not want to have to go through the hassle of trying to get a charge back on the credit card and go through all that cr*p. I also did not want to have to drag the kids out of the car again to go to Tesco or some other shop. I just wanted to get a bag for my shopping so I could go.
NoLimits, you also questioned wheather I would ring up Dunnes to apoligise to the girl I was talking to. Honestly, I very nearly did on Monday. And I very nearly did again yesterday after yer man rang me. But the more I think about it, the more I think I shouldn't. I think the whole situation was completely of the managers making. It was her that made a very big deal out of a nothing situation.
I was stading in front of her, with a child in one hand and a box of Krispies in the other. I had two other kids with me. One with nappies and wipes in her hands and I can't remember what the other fella had (probably the sweets knowing him) but his hands were full too. My wife was trying to pack biscuts into her handbag at the till behind me.
She had no plastic bags and I asked her for a paper one. Not alone did she said No, but she was extremely condesending in her tone and manner from the first second I approached her. IMO, if she had done her job properly, the situation would never have occured.
For example.... here's 3 things she could have done....
1) She could have said, "They're just not suitable for groceries. We have a lot of problems with them bursting, I really am very sorry about that" - At least she would have been giving me a reasonable explaination about why I can't have one. And while I wouldn't have been particularly happy, I think I would have left it.
2) "I am not allowed to give them for groceries, but if you hang on there a second I'll get one of the lads to drop you out a cardboard box"
3) "I am not allowed to give them for groceries, but just stick the groceries back in the basket, and I'll tell the security to let you out the door with it"
While I think that someone else might possibly have to answer for why the bags weren't there, I think she personally didn't do her job in how she handled it. When I did complain to Dunnes via e-mail, I complained about the bags not being there and their policy of not giving out bags as opposed to how the manager treated me because I was not trying to anybody in trouble. But I did think she was very shoddy.0 -
BebhinnHeaven wrote: ».all the supervisors have NO authority or ability to use their personal desscretion to deal with situation and are OBSESSED with 'company policy' and won't bend the rules.
Shop staff don't make the rules, therefore they are not allowed to bend them.
"Personal discretion" is not worth two craps to Head Office.0 -
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...You doubted your reactions on Boards and you still took the time to email Dunnes to complain....
I didn't doubt that I was treated shoddily by Dunnes Stores. I doubted how I reacted to it alright, by trying to take a bag myself and dropping the bag in the end. But I have no doubt that the service I got was sh1t.
What was I looking for by complaining to Dunnes...? Nothing really. I got what I though was extremely bad service, and so I made a complaint.What were you looking for out of this??
What was I looking for by posting here...? I just wanted to know what people thought about what happened...you seem happy with a phone call from a regional manager. I wonder how many other calls he had to make yesterday :rolleyes:
I don't get you. Do you mean that you think I was probably just 1 of 50 calls he had to punch in yesterday morning to pain in the a55 customers...? If that was the case, then fair play to him - he's good at it, he fooled me.0 -
It seems to me that some people on this post are more concerned with the OP's reaction in the aftermath.
The thread shouldn't really have much to do with the OP's reaction. It doesn't change the fact that Dunnes Stores were unwilling to assist a customer in what was not an un-reasonable request.
What this issue boils down to is really a case of Dunnes Stores not acting with a little common sense and some goodwill towards a customer.
The issue goes beyond what the girl at the checkout said, or what the manager said. It's really a case that Dunnes Stores are enforcing policies that are not customer friendly. If Dunnes are in dispute with the Government then the ill effects of this should not trickle down to their customers.
Dunnes need to go back to basics here and start developing policies that are customer friendly and do not result in confrontation between staff and customers. This would make life easier for everyone as opposed to just satisfying the well paid, faceless executives who hide in head office.0 -
It seems to me that some people on this post are more concerned with the OP's reaction in the aftermath.
The thread shouldn't really have much to do with the OP's reaction. It doesn't change the fact that Dunnes Stores were unwilling to assist a customer in what was not an un-reasonable request.
What this issue boils down to is really a case of Dunnes Stores not acting with a little common sense and some goodwill towards a customer.
The issue goes beyond what the girl at the checkout said, or what the manager said. It's really a case that Dunnes Stores are enforcing policies that are not customer friendly. If Dunnes are in dispute with the Government then the ill effects of this should not trickle down to their customers.
Dunnes need to go back to basics here and start developing policies that are customer friendly and do not result in confrontation between staff and customers. This would make life easier for everyone as opposed to just satisfying the well paid, faceless executives who hide in head office.
The request was not unreasonable. Dunnes did offer alternatives, but these didn't suit the OP and that's when he became unreasonable.
If you have ever worked on the front line in any retailer you will know that the phrase "gesture of goodwill" is bandied about by customers who abuse, bully and negotiate discounts based on their claims that think they deserve it.
The OP has also stated that he is not brand loyal as he was considering putting down his shopping and getting it elsewhere (tescos were mentioned) He didn't trot out the weary line of "but I have spent thousands here over the past year" as most complainants do to garner goodwill. He dismissed what the manager said to him - reached over her and took an item of Dunnes property without permission. This is when "loyal customer" becomes "problem customer"
The op has stated many times that he didn't have a bag. However- he did have 3 children with him. One of whom he carried in his arms. So the obvious thing to have done would have been to get a trolley and put one child in it and fill up with whatever items needed and then browse the drapery section.
I know for a fact when I am going shopping in any supermarket that when I am getting out of the car I think "what do I need?" and if I can think of more than a few things I do what thousands of other shoppers do - I get a trolley.
Yes Dunnes should have bags - but as I mentioned before Lidl and Aldi don't - yet nobody gives out about them. On the contrary it's "how great they are - so cheap- they put Dunnes and Tesco in their place".
Of course they can with understaffed stores and no multi million euro tax bill for a plastic bag levy.0 -
Shop staff don't make the rules, therefore they are not allowed to bend them.
"Personal discretion" is not worth two craps to Head Office.
Managers are there to manage, not every situation can be covered by a manual or a memo, sometimes situations happen and the simple way to handle it is the easiest rather then by the book.
in this situation the op had a simple request-- a bag that any shop worth its salt would have in stock - dunnes didnt because as jpb1974 said they were enforcing a policy that was not customer friendly.
it was an easy problem to sort out, but the manager just couldnt be arsed , this antagonised the op and we had the "bag drop incident".
the simple facts of the matter are 1.that dunnes no longer provide free bags (as in the 22c bag) and expect the customer to buy bin bags that they dont want or a bag for life that they dont want.
and 2. the manager made a minor problem into a big problem by her jobsworth attitude.0 -
Dunnes did offer alternatives, but these didn't suit the OP and that's when he became unreasonable
Sorry borderlinemeath i dont think that buying binbags that you dont need or a cooler bag that you dont want and been forced to pay 5 times more than you wanted for a bag (22c v €1) is reasonable.
i have worked front line for 16 years if the shop i work in ran out of bags we would go out of our way to borrow some or make a special trip to the wholesalers to get some.
everyone knows the discounters policy on bags , this is a new under hand policy from dunnes.
as an aside there is no multimillion euro bill for bag levy, you collect the levy and you pay it over, its basic accounting. its similar to vat.
Of course they can with understaffed stores
agree with you 100% on this , lifeless soul destroying places, but that another arguement.0 -
If you have ever worked on the front line in any retailer you will know that the phrase "gesture of goodwill" is bandied about by customers who abuse, bully and negotiate discounts based on their claims that think they deserve it.
It's also used by customers who have very pleasant shopping experiences and based on this return to stores and recommend them to others.Yes Dunnes should have bags - but as I mentioned before Lidl and Aldi don't - yet nobody gives out about them.
Sorry, but I have my reservations about some of Aldi and Lidl's policies too... so to say nobody gives about them is completley false statement.
It seems to me that people about this place oft like to exaggerate situations to support their own arguement.0 -
Managers are there to manage, not every situation can be covered by a manual or a memo, sometimes situations happen and the simple way to handle it is the easiest rather then by the book.
Totally agree. A bit of common sense can go a long way.0 -
This is when "loyal customer" becomes "problem customer"
Only because the situation was poorly managed. The situation could have been easily avoided if the manager had acted with an amount of common sense and respect.
Any good manager will know how to handle these sort of situations from both training and experience.
Managers are not trained to harp on to a customer about their mortgage or any other personal circumstance... to do so is unprofessional.The OP has also stated that he is not brand loyal
So what? A customer is a customer and as far as I am concerned all customers should be valued and treated accordingly.0 -
as an aside there is no multimillion euro bill for bag levy, you collect the levy and you pay it over, its basic accounting. its similar to vat.
AFAIK this is not the case. The problem is that the govt are asking for the 22c back on every bag that the stores buy in, rather than every bag that is paid for by the customer. There is a lot of waste, and a large proportion of the bags that are bought in are not taken out by customers.
The bag tax was meant to be a customer tax, but the govt has made it a retailer's tax. That is essentially the argument, I think.0 -
what I think alot of people don't realise is how much paper bags cost the supermarkets to buy in, it's about 10c each
it'd be 20c alot of the time, because people will double bag, and people will take alot more of them than they really need because they're free (like it was when plastic bags were free)
then there will be people who will overload them (it's been repeatedly mentioned already that they're not designed to take very heavy items), and when they give way people will expect items to be replaced for them
so you can see how expensive it can suddenly work out for them if a supermarket suddenly starts giving everyone paper bags for their groceries (and OP I know you only wanted 1, but other people would see you getting it and also expect them)
and on the issue of the Dunnes dispute, I hope that Dunnes lose their case, not to get them back to giving out plastic bags or anything like that, but it'd would be an absolute nightmare if we ever had to go back to the bad old days of plastic bags littered all over our roads, or un-necessarily going into our landfills by the millions0 -
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what I think alot of people don't realise is how much paper bags cost the supermarkets to buy in, it's about 10c eachso you can see how expensive it can suddenly work out if a supermarket suddenly starts giving everyone paper bags for their groceries
The supply of bags by supermarkets has always cost them money be it paper or plastic. The introduction of the levy hasn't changed that.
It's basically deemed by most supermarkets as a standard operating cost. They still have to pay for the purchase of the bags and they are still at a loss when they provide them to customers. It's only the government who make anything from this.0 -
The supply of bags by supermarkets has always cost them money be it paper or plastic. The introduction of the levy hasn't changed that.
It's basically deemed by most supermarkets as a standard operating cost. They still have to pay for the purchase of the bags and they are still at a loss when they provide them to customers. It's only the government who make anything from this.
yes, but plastic bags only cost 2c each to buy in, so a 400% increase in the cost would be very significant0 -
the groutch wrote: »yes, but plastic bags only cost 2c each to buy in, so a 400% increase in the cost would be very significant
Exactly. I'd say it's even more of a difference. Those flimsy plastic bags, bought in bulk, more like 0.1c each.
I'm not defending Dunnes, especially in terms of customer service in the OP, but they do have a point.0 -
yes, but plastic bags only cost 2c each to buy in, so a 400% increase in the cost would be very significant
Sorry... wires crossed there.
I agree about costs of paper vs plastic.
I thought you original meant that the levy was being collected by the supermarket for them to cover the purchase cost of the bag.0 -
When in Tesco yesterday I confirmed their bag for life is priced at 35c, Dunnes have the cheek to charge 70c for the same thing!
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0605.html
So it would seem tescos bag for life does have the levy paid, unless the law has changed since then. 70cent seems reasonable to me though.5. The following classes of plastic bags are excepted from the definition of a plastic bag
(e) plastic bags designed for re-use, which are used to contain goods or products and which are sold to customers for a sum of not less than 70 cent each.0 -
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eightyfish wrote: »AFAIK this is not the case. The problem is that the govt are asking for the 22c back on every bag that the stores buy in, rather than every bag that is paid for by the customer. There is a lot of waste, and a large proportion of the bags that are bought in are not taken out by customers.
The bag tax was meant to be a customer tax, but the govt has made it a retailer's tax. That is essentially the argument, I think.
When we had an inspection we were asked how we accounted for our bag use , we showed them how our bags were barcoded and for those that werent how we had a plu set up on our till system and what reports could be generated. they were happy with this and left.
in our shop there is little waste in plastic bags , and even if there was it would be easy to set up a waste system and whereby you allocated a credit to your levy charge every quarter if you were being charged on bags you bought in.
Im not sure what dunnes are up to but most retailers manage the system no problem, more to this then meets the eye i think.0 -
in our shop there is little waste in plastic bags , and even if there was it would be easy to set up a waste system and whereby you allocated a credit to your levy charge every quarter if you were being charged on bags you bought in.
That's the thing though. That's where the argument lies. The tax people don't want to allow for a credit.more to this then meets the eye i think.
Probably! With Dunnes I wouldn't be surprised.0 -
NO Limits & Magenta - I'll answer the two of you together if you don't mind as I think ye're both trying to make similar points
I think that you both agree that (and do correct me if I am wrong)
a) It was perfectly reasonable of me to ask for a paper bag.
and
b) It was very unreasonable of her not to give me one considering they were out of plastic ones bags.
Where did I say that, or have you just decided to put words in my mouth?
For example.... here's 3 things she could have done....
1) She could have said, "They're just not suitable for groceries. We have a lot of problems with them bursting, I really am very sorry about that" - At least she would have been giving me a reasonable explaination about why I can't have one. And while I wouldn't have been particularly happy, I think I would have left it.
2) "I am not allowed to give them for groceries, but if you hang on there a second I'll get one of the lads to drop you out a cardboard box"
3) "I am not allowed to give them for groceries, but just stick the groceries back in the basket, and I'll tell the security to let you out the door with it"
How do you know there were any boxes available?
Also, from my own experience working in supermarkets when I was in college, customers are not allowed to leave with a basket for ANY reason. Want to know why? Because the majority of them are too damn lazy to put their shopping into the boot and bring the basket back in. The supermarket I worked in was spending a fortune on getting new baskets because of it.
Eventually they just put security tags on the whole lot so when the customer tried to leave with it, the alarm would go off and they were told they had to leave it in the shop. I spent most of my time (a) being abused because of the lack of baskets (because before we put the tags on, they were continually stolen) and (b) being abused because we stopped letting customers take them outside.
It's the same reason why trollies need a euro to operate. People are too lazy to leave them back at the trolley bay otherwise, but they're too cheap to leave the euro behind.0 -
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This is getting annoying. I was in Dunnes in St. Stephens Green today – which is more like a place for convenience purchases than your weekly shop. I picked up something for lunch and a few other items on the spur while I was there. It was not pre-planned visit so I did not have a shopping list, re-usable bags, a coin for the trolley etc.
They then claimed they had no more plastic bags at the tills. They would not give me a paper bag - even though I only had 5 small items and a paper bag would have been sufficiently strong to hold them. I was offered a re-usable bag for €1. I have plenty of them at home, so decided to struggle with the shopping instead.
Dunnes would want to sort this out soon. This dispute they have with Revenue and their stubbornness is now affecting customers and front line staff. Convenience shoppers I guess will vote with their feet and shop elsewhere…0
This discussion has been closed.
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