Now that Natal/Kinect has been unveiled...

Venom

NotorietyH wrote: »

That's pretty interesting, I'm just surprised they haven't made an effort to implement it better it to regular games a show that off yet. The Forza 3 demo just seemed like another tech demo to me. I've yet to see anything with the Kinect that makes me think that it'll be anything more than basically a Wii plug-in for your 360. If it's over €100 I'll just buy a Wii instead.

At least with the Move they've tried to show a broad range of applications, with SOCOM looking particularily impressive and if you don't like the Move just play it with your regular controller.

I'm not sure if I'll buy the Move either, it depends on software again. So far though out of every game shown for both products, SOCOM is the only one that interests me. Though that Child of Eden game at the Ubisoft conference last night looked good, but good in a 'good for ten minutes until novelty wears off' kind of way.

You give the impression you want the Kinect to suck just because you don't like it tbh. The Forza 4 demo was just a tech demo to show how Kinect could be used in the game. Why would you buy a Wii tho as you seem to dislike the motion style games?

While I don't think Kinect will appeal to mainstream gamers, I can see how the party games could be fun when mates drop around and the voice stuff looks like it would be cool if your using X-Box as part of a media centre.

I can see the video chat being a big hit and the fact the Kinect unit seems to work on PCs could be a good selling point for a good quality HD video camera.

NotorietyH

Venom wrote: »

You give the impression you want the Kinect to suck just because you don't like it tbh.

No I think that the Kinect does suck because I don't like it. It's kind of how that works. If you like it more power to ya, but I still don't see it being utilized in an especially unique or progressive way which is mainly Microsoft's fault for hyping this as basically an entire new console. It's not.

Venom wrote: »

The Forza 4 demo was just a tech demo to show how Kinect could be used in the game. Why would you buy a Wii tho as you seem to dislike the motion style games?

Super Mario Galaxy 2 and a few other games like Metroid Other M.

While I don't think Kinect will appeal to mainstream gamers, I can see how the party games could be fun when mates drop around and the voice stuff looks like it would be cool if your using X-Box as part of a media centre.

I can see the video chat being a big hit and the fact the Kinect unit seems to work on PCs could be a good selling point for a good quality HD video camera.

I agree with you on that front, that as a party game device it would be entertaining for a while, but again it's not what Microsoft were hyping this up to be. At the moment all they've shown is party games and tech demos, which was all pretty much the exact same as they showed last year, expect less impressive actually. Last year they had Milo, which was creepy but impressive, they were showing Burnout Paradise working with the Natal where you accelerated by moving your foot and steered with your hands. This year they show Forza three where you ONLY steer the car in basically a graphically impressive mini-game. You don't even accelerate in it, you only steer. Didn't realise this until I listened to the Giant Bombcast today.

Microsoft completely failed to excite me in any way about Kinect, whereas last year they had me interested to see what they could do with the technology. They killed all that interest for me this year with it's lacklustre line up of games and the rumours of the pretty high price point.

The Sparrow

Why didn't they just call it Connect? or Kinetic?

No need for the wacky spelling.

chrislad

Sounds fantastic!

I wouldn't say I have high hopes. I suspect it will go much the same way that pretty much every game changing peripheral for any console ever released has gone - obscurity.

gizmo

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

NotorietyH wrote: »

No I think that the Kinect does suck because I don't like it. It's kind of how that works. If you like it more power to ya, but I still don't see it being utilized in an especially unique or progressive way which is mainly Microsoft's fault for hyping this as basically an entire new console. It's not.

I don't think MS ever pushed that, instead it was made out to be an extension to the existing console's functionality.

NotorietyH wrote: »

I agree with you on that front, that as a party game device it would be entertaining for a while, but again it's not what Microsoft were hyping this up to be. At the moment all they've shown is party games and tech demos, which was all pretty much the exact same as they showed last year, expect less impressive actually. Last year they had Milo, which was creepy but impressive, they were showing Burnout Paradise working with the Natal where you accelerated by moving your foot and steered with your hands. This year they show Forza three where you ONLY steer the car in basically a graphically impressive mini-game. You don't even accelerate in it, you only steer. Didn't realise this until I listened to the Giant Bombcast today.

Again it should be pointed out, most devs only have the hardware and libraries in their hands for a little under a year so expecting much more is a bit much.

As for the Burnout Paradise implementation, that has been moved to Joyride which operates in the same way now. Whether it works in the real world remains to be seen of course.

NotorietyH

Venom wrote: »

I can see the video chat being a big hit and the fact the Kinect unit seems to work on PCs could be a good selling point for a good quality HD video camera.

Yeah also with this, you can already do video chat I think with the existing 360 camera. You can with the PS3 and the Playstation Eye. I can't see that many people using it to be honest. I've never used it anyway.

Mcjmetroid

Sounds fantastic!

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I think Kinect did that when it showed off the head tracking while driving in Forza 3, that was better and more practical that SOCOM 4 Move demo imo, instead of holding a glowing dildo to aim a gun.

The Track IR system for the PC is where Kinect will shine in the hardcore gaming market or where is should shine on the 360.

you serious? Well then pray tell how is a fps game going to work with kinetic? PUt 2 fingers together to mimick a gun? haha no. That's almost as bad as pretending you are holding a steering wheel using 2 fists......oh wait

Kinetic is a good idea but it will never work as a core gaming device. The lack of buttons REALLY restricts everything.

Mcjmetroid

Sounds fantastic!

hightower1 wrote: »

Kinect is the concept of the wii advanced further and evolved, they took the concept and took it a step further, move took the concept and inched it further.

Put it this way.... describe Kinect to a casual gamer.... now try and describe move. Which one do you think they are going to say....."Isnt that jut Wii?" to?
.

no .. it... isn't.

kinetic is FAR more restrictive than the wiimote.

and from the looks of things it really seems sony is pushing Move to more of a core gaming audience. Just look at the list it's already compatible with. The best wii titles are core titles that barely use the wiimote. I love the wii don't get me wrong but it didn't entirely convince hardcore gamers that motion gaming is for them.

I believe sony's move will finally break this ground. Nintendo did a wonderful job of bringing the casual gamers in, now It's time for sony for finish the job and bring the rest.

NotorietyH

gizmo wrote: »

I don't think MS ever pushed that, instead it was made out to be an extension to the existing console's functionality.


Again it should be pointed out, most devs only have the hardware and libraries in their hands for a little under a year so expecting much more is a bit much.

As for the Burnout Paradise implementation, that has been moved to Joyride which operates in the same way now. Whether it works in the real world remains to be seen of course.

Well I remember reading a fair few articles with Microsoft execs and hearing a fair few gaming journalists saying that Microsoft were pushing the Kinect in the way that they'd treat a console launch. Not exactly the same thing, but there's been a fair few soundbites where it's implied.

Joyride didn't impress me personally, I just picked up Modnation racers and that'll do me for my cart-racing I think.I think with racing games anyway I'd rather a controller.

I thought that they'd have trotted out a few more developers who had gone back and retconned game to show the potential of how Kinect could supliment different game types. If they managed it with Burnout last year how could they have nothing prepared this year? Gaming websites and all today are surprisingly quiet in terms of new details on Kinect, which isn't a great omen in my opinion. Maybe it'll pan out differently over the week, but I think we've seen pretty much all Kinect is going to offer in the near-medium term. Long-term we'll probably be waiting until E3 next year when Microsoft will try to breath life into it again.

Moving your head to look around the cockpit in Forza seemed good, but listening to the Bombcast, Jeff Gerstman said he tried it and it didn't register his head movement.

I think Microsoft have misjudged it a lot. The Wii works for its market etc. because the motion controls are the controls for the system, not an optional one. Sony's move is going to have the same problem. I can't see too many casual gamers jumping to the 360 for Kinect. Of the three consoles its probably the least casual gamer friendly. Besides Rare's stuff, which doesn't sell at all despite being really good games. I don't think Kinect is going to do the numbers at all that Microsoft are hoping for.

I'm using E3 to decide what I spend my money on in the next few months. Last year I bought a 360 because of the line-up of games they had coming out got me really excited about the system. This year has had the complete opposite effect. If Nintendo have anything that interests me today I'll be buying a Wii instead, Sony might yet convince me to buy a Move. With Rock Band 3 coming out though I can see that being my only major peripheral/console investment this year. Besides Fable III and Crackdown 2, I don't think there's another 360 game I'll buy this year. I'll be picking up most of my multi-platform games for my PS3. Oh I'll probably pick up Limbo and Comic Jumper on the XBLA too.

Sorry for rambling on, I half forgot this isn't the E3 thread! I've just been staggeringly underwhelmed by Microsoft's conference this year, and Kinect really failed to impress me. If I was in the same position this summer as I was last summer sans 360, I don't think I'd have ended up buying one.

I just feel that Microsoft are throwing all their eggs into one basket this year with Kinect, and I think it's a pretty big gamble.

sarumite

Sounds fantastic!

rizzla wrote: »

I'm sure you could do that with Kinect, just make a gun with your fingers and thumb. Look silly, but not as bad a pointing a glowing dildo at the screen.

yeah, the move looks funny.

I am concerned about the lack of any feedback/rumble. I think its superior technology than the move, but for gaming I think the move/wii is probably more functional.

Grayditch

Sounds fantastic!

Trying to say this will be any better than Playstation Move is ridiculous. Both look sucky, and it's ok to admit that this looks sucky. If it makes people feel better, go ahead and keep having a pop at thew Wii too, but it doesn't make this bag of trash looking any more appealing.

gizmo

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

Mcjmetroid wrote: »

and from the looks of things it really seems sony is pushing Move to more of a core gaming audience....

I believe sony's move will finally break this ground. Nintendo did a wonderful job of bringing the casual gamers in, now It's time for sony for finish the job and bring the rest.

Apart from coming across as quite fanboyish, the idea that either of these motion controls will ever replace the standard controller for the core crowd is laughable. The best they will achieve is supplementary and in this context, it's too early to tell for either.

NotorietyH wrote: »

Well I remember reading a fair few articles with Microsoft execs and hearing a fair few gaming journalists saying that Microsoft were pushing the Kinect in the way that they'd treat a console launch. Not exactly the same thing, but there's been a fair few soundbites where it's implied.

Perhaps in terms of scale with Cirque du Soleil etc... but I'd hope most people around here would be able to see through that kind of marketing bs.

NotorietyH wrote: »

I thought that they'd have trotted out a few more developers who had gone back and retconned game to show the potential of how Kinect could supliment different game types. If they managed it with Burnout last year how could they have nothing prepared this year?

But isn't this what Turn 10 did do with Forza?

As for other developers, again I'd prefer to see them take the time to come up with interesting implementations in new titles rather than just bolting basic usage of the device onto older games.

All that being said, I'm not really overly enthusiastic about the device as it stands but to echo what most journalists have said about it - it does work and it does have the potential to be used well. It will, however, take some time for this to happen.

Captain Chaos

Mcjmetroid wrote: »

you serious? Well then pray tell how is a fps game going to work with kinetic? PUt 2 fingers together to mimick a gun? haha no. That's almost as bad as pretending you are holding a steering wheel using 2 fists......oh wait

Kinetic is a good idea but it will never work as a core gaming device. The lack of buttons REALLY restricts everything.

No, you have the wrong idea completely. You still control the game as normal but Kinect performs head tracking allowing you to look around while still keeping your gun forward or anywhere else.
Look at ARMA 1 and 2 on the PC, head tracking allows you to peak around corners by just leaning your head slightly.

Like Forza 3 with head tracking only. You still control the game as normal. But you can look around and check your mirrors without thinking.

You should try out a Track IR enabled game on the PC some time. Thats how motion control should work. Or watch some youtube vids of it in action in various games. Kinect is a big step ahead of Move and has far more potential if used like a Track IR system which it can if the game devs use it right.

sarumite

Sounds fantastic!

gizmo wrote: »

Apart from coming across as quite fanboyish, the idea that either of these motion controls will ever replace the standard controller for the core crowd is laughable. The best they will achieve is supplementary and in this context, it's too early to tell for either.

Depends on the games I guess.....I played The Conduit on the wii. The game itself was a pretty **** Half life clone (poor AI, poor level design, poor in general) but the one stand out feature was the controls. They were very good and offered something fresh to the FPS market. I could definitely see myself playing a game with wiimote/move/kinect with a well inegrated control system.

NotorietyH

gizmo wrote: »

But isn't this what Turn 10 did do with Forza?

Well yeah but that was just one developer, and it was actually less functional than the Burnout demo that was made a year before in a lot less time. In that you could only steer not accelerate the car. I'm not saying that the technology isn't impressive in some ways and doesn't have potential. I'm saying that I think Microsoft are going to completely squander that potential. I was more impressed with it this time last year when it was just announced as Natal. I'm disappointed in that it seems to have taken a step back, or at the very least not progressed at all.

evad_lhorg

hightower1 wrote: »

you saying you WOULDNT buy a star wars game where you could live multiplay lightsaber dual mates!!!!

imagine this... house party.... light saber duals .... looser takes a shot!
Let hilarity ensue!

the girls will flock to your parties :rolleyes:;)

Gunmonkey

evad_lhorg wrote: »

the girls will flock to your parties :rolleyes:;)

Course they will, the force is strong with this one......now if you had some real plastic lightsabers then they would just strip naked and jump ya right there and then

Venom

Captain Chaos wrote: »

No, you have the wrong idea completely. You still control the game as normal but Kinect performs head tracking allowing you to look around while still keeping your gun forward or anywhere else.
Look at ARMA 1 and 2 on the PC, head tracking allows you to peak around corners by just leaning your head slightly.

Like Forza 3 with head tracking only. You still control the game as normal. But you can look around and check your mirrors without thinking.

You should try out a Track IR enabled game on the PC some time. Thats how motion control should work. Or watch some youtube vids of it in action in various games. Kinect is a big step ahead of Move and has far more potential if used like a Track IR system which it can if the game devs use it right.

How would the head tracking work tho as turning your head makes you look away from the screen as well!

hightower1

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

evad_lhorg wrote: »

the girls will flock to your parties :rolleyes:;)

God forbid you'd leave your missus side for a night I suppose?

Captain Chaos

Venom wrote: »

How would the head tracking work tho as turning your head makes you look away from the screen as well!

Nope, it does not. I have been using Track IR for 7 years on the PC for flight sims, I don't know how I managed without it tbh.

The sensitivity is set very high, but you can set it any way you want. But not so bad that you have to keep your head rock solid. You only turn or lean slightly and the movement is magnified in game. You get used to it after a few mins and its feels very natural very quickly. If you want to zoom on something you lean into the screen and lean away to zoom out. It's great.

It makes formation flying, in flight refueling and dogfights so much easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ

Mcjmetroid

Sounds fantastic!

gizmo wrote: »

Apart from coming across as quite fanboyish, the idea that either of these motion controls will ever replace the standard controller for the core crowd is laughable.

I think us still using Dual analogue controller in the future is even more laughable.

It may not be gaming like this we will be playing but it certainly won't be a standard controller.

kinetic won't replace nothing and neither will sony's one, We are still probably in the early early days of motion control.

Varik

Sounds fantastic!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgLCdE9OKF4

I'm sold, MS can name their price.

TheMooseInNam

Varik wrote: »

I'm sold, MS can name their price.

hmmmmm her Tshirt should say Ubihard... :eek:

Iriquois Pliskin

From what I've seen it just seems to be the Wii all over again? I mean, I think a lot of people were praying for Wii technology to be used by both Sony and Microsoft, but with the gaming being more serious or mature. I can't see how this is going to be achievable at all, I can only see both of them catering to the casual gamer market. I'm sure they'll both have relative success in that market but in terms of taking motion sensor gaming a step further, both consoles will probably be doing very little of that.