re-finishing a shotgun

ormondprop

seeing that i have a lot off free time on my hands lately i'm thinking of re-finishing my old bsa shotgun that was given to me by my father who bought it 2nd hand when he was about 20, as you can see its had a rough time of it in the last 40-50 years, i'm thinking of blueing the barrells and stripping the stock and oiling it if i can, i was also wondering is their anyway of getting the action to shine a bit or would i be better of just blueing it aswell to match the barrells, just looking for some advice on what to use for sanding the stock and removing the little bit of varnish that is left and also what would the best method be of cleaning around the checkering, and methods on blueing the gun

pedroeibar1

That is a very basic boxlock so its value is in its sentimental worth. The screws have not been bodged, which is always a good sign on an older gun. Any money/time you put into the project will give you pleasure, but not payback in cash terms.

To do a proper bluing job on the barrels you need a professional, as the process & chemicals are dangerous and not for a first-timer. There are paint-on kits, but the result is not the same.

I would not blue the action, just give it a clean with metal polish - duraglit or similar. (Some guns have silver actions, called “French Grey”.)
If you really value the gun, beg an old or broken stock from a dealer and experiment on that first.

The stock can be improved and many older stocks have some character in their wood. Tape around all metal and recoil pad and apply a solvent e.g. nitromorous. Using a flat piece of metal held at right angles to the wood, carefully scrape off the goo. Use a tootbrush and a cocktail stick to clean out the chequering. Wipe stock a few times with alcohol to neutralise the solvent. This is a good time to remove any dings – place a wet piece of cloth over the ding and apply a very hot iron to the cloth – a household or soldering one will work fine. (The steam/heat swells the wood fibres and minimizes the ding.) Wash with water – this will raise the grain and when dry, sand ACROSS the grain to even-off (whiskering.)

Now again put masking tape over the metal and the chequering. DO NOT USE MINERAL OIL. There are several stock finishing oils on the market - buy one and several sheets of wet/dry sandpaper in grades P400 and P600.. Cut the paper into squares so that you can wrap each one around a rubber eraser. Place a good dab of oil on the P400 and gently start sanding. Keep the surface wet and let the slurry build up. When you get tired, wrap the stock in clingfilm – that allows the oil to soak into the wood and leave it aside for at least a day. After three/four or more applications like this the stock should be smooth and starting to load up with the oil.

When this stage is reached wipe off all with a clean cloth and start again with P600. When the wood is really smooth, stop the sandpaper and use your fingers. The heat generated by the friction of your fingers opens the pores of the wood and forces the oil in. The stock should by now be taking on a deep shine. The secret is little and often –when using your fingers, once an hour for a day, once a day for a week, once a week for a year.......

For the chequering, you could carefully use a tiny triangular file to sharpen the cuts, but unless you are a skilled woodworker I would not try that. Just brush on some of the oil and wipe off. Follow same procedure for the fore-end.

It's time-consuming but very worthwhile. I've found Napier Gunstock Oils to be good.
Rs
P.

ormondprop

would i be better off leaving it as it is so and maybe someday when funds allow get some professional to do his magic on it

pedroeibar1

No reason why you should not oil the wood yourself. I've done all but one of my guns, after a trial on an old stock. The oil finish is the expensive bit - 'cos of the time.

I'm not up-to-date on prices, but from memory I'd guess about £100-150 for re-bluing the barrels, about 100-200 for the chequering and at least £200 for the oil finish. Bound to be someone on here who can update the prices.

It's a good summer project, go for it!
P.

bmcm71

Birchwood Casey do a gun blue that you can do yourself. I've tried it on a few guns and it did a fine job on cleaning up the barrels. It's pretty lethal stuff so be careful and wear gloves but basically all you do is sand any rust off the barrels with fine sandpaper of steel wool, clean them down with petrol and make sure there is no oil or residue on them. Apply the blue with a clean dry lint free cloth (its like blue tooth paste) You will see an immediate reaction with the steel and the barrels with blacken up nicely. Then wash them down with water to stop and seal the reaction, dry them off and repeat if necessary. You can buy the stuff on ebay for about 10 euro's. Its very easy to do and for an older gun that doesn't need to be 100% perfect it's ideal.

Agree 100% with pedroeibar1, oil finishing the wood ain't rocket science and it's all about taking your time and building up the layer. Took the lacquer finish off my Beretta a few years ago with nitromors and refinished with oil, never did one before and it worked out perfectly. I redo it after every season and it keeps the gun looking like new. Have fun!!

landkeeper

that's still a sought after and reliable gun , i bet you'd be hard pushed to find a bsa like it with good barrells for under a grand .if your going to reblue it get it done properly by a gun smith it's not that expensive really in the scheme of things and it lasts if treated properly it's all in the preperation the more put in the better the finish and the metal needs to be scrupleously clean , i found with those home blue kits over the years it's hard to stop the barrells rusting afterwards for some reason in comparison to a pro job

ormondprop

i might just stick with doing the woodwork for now so, for stripping the wood using nitromors or white spirit and what ever else i need would i hav to remove all the metal from the wood?

Tackleberrywho

ormondprop wrote: »

i might just stick with doing the woodwork for now so, for stripping the wood using nitromors or white spirit and what ever else i need would i hav to remove all the metal from the wood?

Yes remove wood, thinners will remove all lube from her

Then she would rust in a flash.

You can make old timber look very well as it has aged and dried out so it will absorb a lot of oil.

pedroeibar1

No disrespect to Tack, but I’m not sure he has done or seen this done before. There are pros and cons on wood removal. Ideally, it should be done, but only if you know what you are doing and have the skills & tools for the job. If you do remove the wood, be very careful with the sanding, as on re-assembly you do not want the level of the finished wood to be below the adjoining metal. I did not mention wood removal in my initial post as you probably do not have the correct type of spanner, you probably do not have turnscrews ground to the correct size, and it will involved additional work on the butt – you will have to bore out a plug and replace it with similar, and cut chequering (if it is chequered.)
I have successfully covered the metal with masking tape and very carefully used a Stanley knife to trim around e.g. the trigger tang. As the poster above said, it’s not rocket science and you can keep it simple by keeping the wood on and being careful.
It will be easier and more satisfying than you think!
Rs
P.

Tackleberrywho

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

No disrespect to Tack, but I’m not sure he has done or seen this done before. There are pros and cons on wood removal. Ideally, it should be done, but only if you know what you are doing and have the skills & tools for the job. If you do remove the wood, be very careful with the sanding, as on re-assembly you do not want the level of the finished wood to be below the adjoining metal. I did not mention wood removal in my initial post as you probably do not have the correct type of spanner, you probably do not have turnscrews ground to the correct size, and it will involved additional work on the butt – you will have to bore out a plug and replace it with similar, and cut chequering (if it is chequered.)
I have successfully covered the metal with masking tape and very carefully used a Stanley knife to trim around e.g. the trigger tang. As the poster above said, it’s not rocket science and you can keep it simple by keeping the wood on and being careful.
It will be easier and more satisfying than you think!
Rs
P.

Fair point, I have seen some very nice jobs done on old wood, even on bog oak ash yew etc; but yes the person who did it had done a lot of practice on other things first.

In a previous life I used to re blue/blacken metal. We shot blasted it with metal shot and then dfipped it in blackfast.

Not sure if this would be ideal for shotty's though as the process was messy and agressive on some parts. A no No on anything with bearings etc.

pedroeibar1

If you admit in your post that you don’t know, why bother to post?:rolleyes:
Bog oak, ash and yew have nothing to do with finishing a timber stock. Shotgun stocks of this BSA’s vintage are invariably made of walnut, which has totally different qualities and properties to the stuff you mention.
Blackfast :eek: is totally unsuitable for guns. The low temperature blueing solutions (such as Blackfast) never work well because they corrode the metal much too quickly and aggressively. Then the finished article will look like a sandblasted POS. Its texture and coloring will be rough due to spotted corrosion. But then, if you have already used a shotblasting process to clean the gun, you would probably would not know (or even notice) the difference. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

If you admit in your post that you don’t know, why bother to post?:rolleyes:
Bog oak, ash and yew have nothing to do with finishing a timber stock. Shotgun stocks of this BSA’s vintage are invariably made of walnut, which has totally different qualities and properties to the stuff you mention.
Blackfast :eek: is totally unsuitable for guns. The low temperature blueing solutions (such as Blackfast) never work well because they corrode the metal much too quickly and aggressively. Then the finished article will look like a sandblasted POS. Its texture and coloring will be rough due to spotted corrosion. But then, if you have already used a shotblasting process to clean the gun, you would probably would not know (or even notice) the difference. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

P,
I spoke from my experiences and offered my opinions.
I did a few pieces in blackfast and they turned out very well with unifiorm colour; however I was only offering my 2 cents. An old BSA is not worth a hole pile anyway so I was assuming the OP wanted a relatively cheap solution.

In regards to finishing timber, friends of mine have won competions for there craftsmanship with some of the most amazing carving and colouring of timber.
Walnut turns out very well with TLC.
I personally would prefer a honeycomb oil finish than a glossy varnish.

That is only my opinion, nobody has to act on it.;)

pedroeibar1

Tack,
The OP's gun is an heirloom, so the vale is intrinsic, and not for debate. Actually, it is a pretty gun, with a nice POW grip, and should clean up nicely.

Your comments are off. Just because a wormer works on a horse does not mean it is good for a sheep. Just because you once used a product for a hunk of metal does not have any relevance to its efficacy on a gun barrel. Just because your mate did something with a lump of wood he dug out of a bog, ..........................well, it just has no relevance. Blather and waffle are the polite words.

Your posts on this should carry a health warning, like “Tack’s advice can seriously harm your gun" or Tack's advice can cause your gun to die younger.”

Enough said.
P.

Tackleberrywho

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Tack,
The OP's gun is an heirloom, so the vale is intrinsic, and not for debate. Actually, it is a pretty gun, with a nice POW grip, and should clean up nicely.

Your comments are off. Just because a wormer works on a horse does not mean it is good for a sheep. Just because you once used a product for a hunk of metal does not have any relevance to its efficacy on a gun barrel. Just because your mate did something with a lump of wood he dug out of a bog, ..........................well, it just has no relevance. Blather and waffle are the polite words.

Your posts on this should carry a health warning, like “Tack’s advice can seriously harm your gun" or Tack's advice can cause your gun to die younger.”

Enough said.
P.

P
All advice would be, go to an expert and get it done professionally.
I can use a lathe and mill etc but for gun work I go to a professional.

For wood restoration or metal restoration you only get one shot!!
My friend carved a beautiful fruit bowel out of a rotten tree stump.

Someone else would have made saw dust.

It takes a steady hand, keen eye and a foresight to see how to restore a piece of metal or wood.

So, op, depending on how much you have to spend make your decision on what suits your pocket.

Start off on sanding down some old furniture and staining/beeswaxing/varnishing to get practice, if you still feel confident tackle the stock.

The steel parts perhaps would be better left in the hands of professionals.

Or completely disregard al advice.
And plough your own furrow

Experimentation can make or break many's a man.

pedroeibar1

Can you not take a hint?:rolleyes:
Do you not read what has been posted?
Now you are introducing STAIN :eek:

Re-finishing wood is not rocketscience as several people have said. The OP is not going to do the metal, he is talking about a basic refinish job on the wood.
Here is a photo of a timber job I did, a work in progress photo. Admittedly the wood - once the crap was stripped - was very good to begin with.

OP, do not expect to get this from your BSA. Note the masking tape on the chequering.
OP, if you need more help/advice PM me. This is a PITA.
Rs
P.

Tackleberrywho

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Can you not take a hint?:rolleyes:
Do you not read what has been posted?
Now you are introducing STAIN :eek:

Re-finishing wood is not rocketscience as several people have said. The OP is not going to do the metal, he is talking about a basic refinish job on the wood.
Here is a photo of a timber job I did, a work in progress photo. Admittedly the wood - once the crap was stripped - was very good to begin with.

OP, do not expect to get this from your BSA. Note the masking tape on the chequering.
OP, if you need more help/advice PM me. This is a PITA.
Rs
P.

I can take a hint, the stock finish is very good.

No need for hostility P.
Boards is free advice, some good some bad.
Some in between.

I'm not very experienced on wood, I only have one wooden shotgun.
I bow to your experience with wood.

OP sorry if you are reading this and thinking WTF, boards has a tendency to make strangers argue over something for what point? who know

If every body agreed life would be very dull.

ormondprop

wow the stocks on them pair of shotguns is amazing, when you are firstly stripping the wood with nitromers or what ever you use, what would the best way be of protecting the metal as i presume that the chemicals would be harmful and cause it to rust, do you just keep them clean and rub down with an oily rag

bmcm71

I'm inclined to always remove the stock from the action, I know you can damage the screws but if you have a screwdriver thats a good fit and its not a Purdey then whip it off and you have great freedom to do whatever you want. You can also give the internal action a good cleaning while you're at it and have it ship shape for the next season. If you don't know how to take the stock off, visit your friendly gunsmith, if they're a decent sort they'll show you. In most under and overs it just involves taking the butt plate off and loosening the screw holding it onto the action, which can be a screw head or hexagon type allen head. Standard boxlock side by sides are a little more complicated but not much.

pedroeibar1

ormondprop wrote: »

wow the stocks on them pair of shotguns is amazing, when you are firstly stripping the wood with nitromers or what ever you use, what would the best way be of protecting the metal as i presume that the chemicals would be harmful and cause it to rust, do you just keep them clean and rub down with an oily rag

Thanks. Yeah, they are not “run of the mill” guns, but despite their beauty, having done a couple of others first I was not afraid to tackle the refinish job, so you will not have a problem.

Oily rags are for metal - mineral oil, the stuff for metal, harms wood, goes black after a few years and should be kept away from stocks. That is why guns should be stored barrells down.

I’m a great believer in leaving well enough alone so I do not pull stuff apart unless I really have to - and only then if I have the experience and the right tools. That means leaving a stock on a gun, taking advice from people I know/trust and and ignoring the organic fertilizer posted by wafflers on BBs.:rolleyes:

I used an artist’s paintbrush to apply the nitromorous near the metal, which had firstly been properly covered with a couple of layers of ordinary masking tape. I was careful not to allow the nitro to run on to the tape. A bit of care, slow progress and it will be ok. In putting on the tape i was careful to follow the edge of the metal & chequering, to ensure it was properly covered.

I still maintain that you should not remove the wood <snip>

If you look at the butt of your gun you should see a wooden plug in the centre – that would have to be located, then bored out, a key-spanner inserted to reach a nut at the back of the action which must be unscrewed to separate the bits. That means on re-assembly you will have to manufacture and machine a plug of exact size, of a similar colour and grain pattern. After reassembly you tap it in, sand it down and if the butt is chequered it means using a chequering tool to cut new chequering to match.

Your photos are not very clear so it is hard to tell the precise condition of your gun; although the chequering seems to be a bit rough in spots, a good sign is that the top lever is dead centre – if it was to one side it would indicate that the gun had been heavily used.

If the gun fits you properly, you shoot well with it and you intend to use it for a long time it would be worthwhile to get the metal done professionally (that way a smith would take it apart for you). If not, just do the wood and enjoy taking it out for the odd bang!
I think we've exausted the topic.:D:D
Rs
P.

palo

As regards your last photo,bet the guy walking along outside the window dosent know how famous he is