The Frontline on compulsory Irish

Permabear

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Offy

donegalfella wrote: »

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I couldnt agree more, with all the non-Irish in Irish schools it seems pointless to force Irish kids to learn a language that most will never use. Either Irish is compulsory for all of compulsory for none IMO.

fifth

While I support maybe a change in how Irish is taught - I strongly oppose the aboliton of Irish in schools.

Permabear

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mike65

WestBrits go home!

PeterIanStaker

Did anyone hear the maths teacher talking about the new approach to teaching the subject in schools? It was on the radio today.

It made sense even to a mathematical dunce like myself. So, if we could teach languages in a more conversational way with less of the rote grammar stuff, it would make more sense.

Wolfe Tone

I think it should be mandatory up to the Junior cert, with a HUGE emphasis on speaking the language rather than reading incredibly rubbish poems. In Irish these days you just learn off answers.

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam

MysticalRain

HP boss questions time spent on Irish
http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/hp-boss-questions-time-spent-on-irish-49889.html

Irish has been a millstone around the neck of Irish education for far too long.

mike65

There is no such thing as an intrinsically difficult subject only coming to it too late and/or bad teaching.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think it should be optional. I'd even trade all primary schools being gaelscoileanna for it to be optional at second level.

Liam Byrne

I had to laugh at the interviewees....

"it's de way thah it's tawh...."

Looks like Irish should be dropped so that they have enough time to learn English properly!

Personally, I think it should be "tawh" completely differently, so that there's a focus on being able to speak and understand it.

Wade in the Sea

donegalfella wrote: »

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Should be moved along to 3rd level like Latin. Five hours a week more of Maths Science or Economics (or even just playing sport) would be five hours better spent.

bleg

Irish was a crap subject, I hated it. For me it made no sense to do it. Wouldn't be a good idea to teach our kids a useful language like German, Spanish, Hindi or Chinese and have them truely trilingual.

Kiwi_knock

Needs wholesale changes to its syllabus, at the moment too many are sacrificing Honours Irish for Higher Maths. Many will drop to pass to concentrate on maths

bleg

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Needs wholesale changes to its syllabus, at the moment too many are sacrificing Honours Irish for Higher Maths. Many will drop to pass to concentrate on maths

OH NO!!!! Students learning something relevant rather than a dead language.

Bottle_of_Smoke

That blonde elitist woman is such a moron.

Wolfe Tone

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Needs wholesale changes to its syllabus, at the moment too many are sacrificing Honours Irish for Higher Maths. Many will drop to pass to concentrate on maths

I did the opposite.

Wade in the Sea

It's the irony of having this debate in English that makes me laugh.

Lockstep

I loved it. I learnt in in Belgium (EU school, had to teach each EU language etc)

Although the emphasis was in oral and not written, so I can speak Irish very well but can't spell it at all.

Permabear

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Kiwi_knock

In Irish you actually never learn the basics such as grammar and verbs. You are meant to have been taught them in primary school but by 6th year you still do not have a clue. It is because we actually do not understand tenses in English so it is all not the fault of Irish teachers

Nijmegen

100 hours a year of class time they get in Irish, apparently.

14 years of Irish, 500 hours at secondary level, and most students speak their European language option better... An which will do them more good?

Education should open minds and provide useful inormation and formulation for their lives.

Make Irish optional for those who want and like it.

Spudmonkey

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I loved it. I learnt in in Belgium (EU school, had to teach each EU language etc)

Although the emphasis was in oral and not written, so I can speak Irish very well but can't spell it at all.

Which to be honest is probably more useful.

Too much emphasis is put on rote learning answers to poetry rather than actually talking the language.

bleg

Tabhair dom casur no tua go mbrisfead is go millfead an teach seo,
go ndeanfad tairseach den fhardoras 'gus urlair de na ballai,
go tiocfaidh scraith agus dion agus simleir anuas
le neart mo chuid allais...
Sin chugam anois na clair is na tairni
go dtoigfead an teach eile seo...
Ach, a Dhia, taim tuirseach!

Eliot Rosewater

I haven't been watching the programme because I've had too much TV today already with the World Cup and the PDs' programme!

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Too much emphasis is put on rote learning answers to poetry rather than actually talking the language.

I think this view has merit within the current situation where people can't actually speak the language after 14 years, and that should obviously be the priority. But I'm not averse to the idea that literature should be taught in theory, once the students have the actual language covered first. Teaching literature without any hope of fostering enthusiasm or appreciation is pointless, in my opinion.

thebman

I was saddened by this debate TBH. I would have taught at this stage there would be much more support for making the language optional.

Everyone agrees current teaching is failing us, they don't seem to acknowledge that Irish serves no purpose to most people in the country. Saying making it optional kills it out only acknowledges that it serves no purpose. If it served a purpose it wouldn't die out as people would need to know it.

Its time the Irish embraced change in our culture and acknowledged that we are now a majority English speaking nation and made Irish optional for those that have it natively or excel at it. Everyone else should be allowed cut it out of their lives IMO.

Spudmonkey

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I think this view has merit within the current situation where people can't actually speak the language after 14 years, and that should obviously be the priority. But I'm not averse to the idea that literature should be taught in theory, once the students have the actual language covered first. Teaching literature without any hope of fostering enthusiasm or appreciation is pointless, in my opinion.

The current system is just doing something for the sake of doing something. Grammer and basic tenses are thought in primary but you'd be hard pressed to find a child entering secondary who can string more than a few simple sentances together.

Teaching Irish literature is all well and good. But teaching something that students don't understand and are purely memorisng so they can regurgitate it at a later date is a complete and utter waste of time!

ballsymchugh

thebman wrote: »

Everyone agrees current teaching is failing us, they don't seem to acknowledge that Irish serves no purpose to most people in the country. Saying making it optional kills it out only acknowledges that it serves no purpose. If it served a purpose it wouldn't die out as people would need to know it.

that argument can be fairly well argued for most languages other than english these days. there's no reason to learn mandarin unless you intend to move to china. a company that wants to do business in china would save more by employing a chinese english grad than an irish person who can speak mandarin. while we learn enough german and french to get a decent grade in the leaving, the europeans are learning english and other languages that put us to shame. in switzerland there are 4 native languages that most people are competant in after school, as well as english.

irish has 11 irregular verbs. one of the lowest amounts which should make it easy to learn. if there was less time spent on the literature then it'd be a better taught subject.
the only way i'd agree to irish being optional is if english is optional too. it's that subject that was a millstone around my neck at LC time.

is brea an teanga í Gaeilge!

theredletter

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That blonde elitist woman is such a moron.

Em. No, she's not, quite frankly. That woman, Anna Gallagher, is a highly educated woman (probably more educated than you and most Irish people). She speaks around 5 languages fluently and speaks another 2 competently. Anna brought about major change on how Irish was being taught to adult learners in Ireland (most notably through following the European Council's framework on language instruction). Because of her hundreds of people have picked up a new language (Irish) and a lot of people have gotten promotions, jobs and other things through her pioneering teaching methods.

Anna would have the same opinion about every other language under the sun. She would say the same things about French, Spanish or Dutch.

So no, she's not a moron... she's pretty much a genius.

Oh and also... I forgot to mention that Anna is an internationally-recognised scholar and teacher. Pat Kenny's bully-style interviewing skills have failed us again.

Kiwi_knock

Welcome to the thread Anna

theredletter

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Welcome to the thread Anna

I wish!

I'm a boy.. and not as dashing as Anna!