Illegal Drugs - What Have Taken?

ibarelycare

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Confused? Em no actually.

I think I being quite clear. I don't deny alcohol is drug and can be dangerous. But I'm not addicted and don't binge. I only drink rarely and then not very much.

And I won't touch any other drug that isn't a medicine.

No confusion there.

People don't have to be addicted to illegal drugs or binge on them to enjoy them the same way as you enjoy alcohol.

Dublin_Gunner

Ms. Hepburn:

Remove the 'legal / non-legal' element, as it makes no difference.

In fact, taxable / not taxable would be more appropriate.

But anyway, you cannot state you'd never do drugs etc because of the health risk, then proceed to say you drink.

If I said, I do cocaine the odd time, but in moderation, would I be worse off, or better off than you?

The so called 'illegality' of a substance does not make it inherently more dangerous.

Take THC for instance (hash, weed etc). Not 1 recorded death, directly attributable to THC has been recorded, anywhere. Yet, it is illegal.

In your opinion, is smoking weed more or less damaging to your health than an equivalent taxable drug, like nicotine?

You cannot very well start spouting mis-truths about drugs that you have never taken, and have your only opinion of them formed by whats on RTÉ and in the Sun or Joe Duffy.

AudreyHepburn

No but whereas one glass of wine is unlikely to cause you much harm unless you have are allergic in some way one shot of heroin or one ecstacy pill could kill you.

what makes you think it's ok to use your drug of choice but i can't use mine?

Never said you couldn't Biffo. I just it's not something I would ever do and explained why.

Dublin_Gunner

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No but whereas one glass of wine is unlikely to cause you much harm unless you have are allergic in some way one shot of heroin or one ecstacy pill could kill you.

1 line of Coke would not kill you. One MDMA tablet (E) will not kill you.

You're reading too much sensationalist journalism.

Same thing goes for most substances. If a small amount is ingested, it is very unlikely that it will cause you harm (yes, including Heroin). However, as you stated, if it caused some allergic reaction, it just might. But then again, if it was a serious allergic reaction - you can't say it was the drug that caused the harm, it would be the allergic reaction that would be the proximate cause of the damage.

**edit

Also, to quote from earlier, about the girl at Oxygen. I could about 99% guarantee that the bottle of vodka caused more of the harm than the 2 pills. Guaranteed a bottle of vodka would have a worse effect on me than 2 pills. And yes, I have the experience of both enough times to know that

Ash.J.Williams

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No but whereas one glass of wine is unlikely to cause you much harm unless you have are allergic in some way one shot of heroin or one ecstacy pill could kill you.

what makes you think it's ok to use your drug of choice but i can't use mine?

Never said you couldn't Biffo. I just it's not something I would ever do and explained why.

Sorry Audreyhepburn I just need to clarify something, i'm pretty sure the few deaths associated with ecstacy were actually more to do with alergic reactions then the drug itself, same as if you were alergic to wine.

thebigbiffo

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No but whereas one glass of wine is unlikely to cause you much harm unless you have are allergic in some way one shot of heroin or one ecstacy pill could kill you.

what makes you think it's ok to use your drug of choice but i can't use mine?

Never said you couldn't Biffo. I just it's not something I would ever do and explained why.

yep, i know. was just pointing out the inherrent hypocrisy of people who say they 'dont do drugs'...most people do, it's just that my drug of choice is illegal whereas yours is freely available so you've got the moral high ground, and most anti-drug posters act like this gives them some sort of pass to just patronise 'users'. i was also trying to refute your point that all these drugs are dangerous - some, if not most, are perfectly safe if used correctly and in moderation - in the same way as alcohol

thebigbiffo

actually, heres a fun excerise for the 'informed'...how about we list all the above (inc. ketamine is you want) in order of how dangerous we think they are. mine:

1: Crack
2: Heroin
3: Ketamine
4: LSD
5: Amphetamines
6: Mushys
7: MDMA
8: Cannabis
9: Poppers

some people may be thinking lsd is too high up the list...but if ya saw a mate of mine...

AudreyHepburn

thebigbiffo wrote: »

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No but whereas one glass of wine is unlikely to cause you much harm unless you have are allergic in some way one shot of heroin or one ecstacy pill could kill you.

what makes you think it's ok to use your drug of choice but i can't use mine?

yep, i know. was just pointing out the inherrent hypocrisy of people who say they 'dont do drugs'...most people do, it's just that my drug of choice is illegal whereas yours is freely available so you've got the moral high ground, and most anti-drug posters act like this gives them some sort of pass to just patronise 'users'. i was also trying to refute your point that all these drugs are dangerous - some, if not most, are perfectly safe if used correctly and in moderation - in the same way as alcohol

Again I wasn't taking the moral high ground or being patronising. I was merely giving my opinion. And my opinion is that drugs are dangerous. And I know that includes alcohol. I never said it didn't.

I never denied drinking nor did I suggest it wasn't a drug. In fact I didn't mention it because that isn't what this thread is about.

All I said was I wouldn't take the kinds of drugs the op mentioned and then said why.

Dublin_Gunner

thebigbiffo wrote: »

actually, heres a fun excerise for the 'informed'...how about we list all the above (inc. ketamine is you want) in order of how dangerous we think they are. mine:

1: Crack
2: Heroin
3: Crystal Meth
4: Alcohol
5: Ketamine
6: LSD
7: Nicotine / Cigarettes
8: Amphetamines
9: Mushys
10: MDMA
11: Cannabis
12: Poppers

some people may be thinking lsd is too high up the list...but if ya saw a mate of mine...

FYP to include my thoughts on it.

But here's something to muse over:

Ranked from most to least dangerous, the ten most dangerous substances were deemed to be:

1. Heroin - popular street names include smack, skag, and junk.
2. Cocaine - often referred to as snow, flake, coke, and blow.
3. Barbiturates - popular slang names include yellow jackets, reds, blues, Amy's, and rainbows.
4. Street Methadone
5. Alcohol
6. Ketamine - a powerful hallucinogen, often referred to as Special K.
7. Benzodiazepines - a family of sedative drugs.
8. Amphetamines - known as greenies among baseball players.
9. Tobacco
10. Buprenorphine - also called bupe or subbies.

The remaining drugs that were assessed in this study ranked as follows:

1. Cannabis - includes marijuana.
2. Solvents - volatile substances that can be inhaled, such as glue, nail polish remover, paints, hair spray, and lighter fuel (gas).
3. 4-MTA - is a derivative of amphetamine and has similar effects to ecstasy.
4. LSD
5. Methylphenidate - central nervous system stimulant, commonly sold as ritalin.
6. Anabolic steroids
7. GHB - short for Gamma hydroxybutyrate, a powerful central nervous system depressant, most commonly known as the date rape drug.
8. Ecstasy
9. Alkyl nitrates - group of drugs commonly referred to as poppers.
10. Khat - an amphetamine-like stimulant.

http://www.drbenkim.com/ten-most-dangerous-drugs.html

Taken from The Lancet, a reputable medical journal.
http://www.thelancet.com/

Kotek Besar

thebigbiffo wrote: »

some people may be thinking lsd is too high up the list...but if ya saw a mate of mine...

What happened to him?

thebigbiffo

Kotek Besar wrote: »

What happened to him?

took waaayyyyy to much acid at a party (i'm talking 5 pops upward of some of the strongest acid ever) - tripped for a couple of days. it definitely changed his personality. went from ultra confident, jokey guy to an aloof, stand-offish, withdrawn lad - the worst was for a couple of years afterwards.

this was 10 years ago. he's much more relaxed now and there's not a bother on him...it's just something changed in him that day...

sounds like the start of steve king book ffs

Stercus Accidit

Yes sir no sir three bags full sir, how high should I jump sir, tax me sir tax me!

So sayeth the drinker/smoker who criticises the drug user.

Kurtosis

I like how the percentage for Cannabis combined with None of the above is greater than 100%...someone was obviously a bit confused :P D'oh

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

1 line of Coke would not kill you. One MDMA tablet (E) will not kill you.

You're reading too much sensationalist journalism.

Same thing goes for most substances. If a small amount is ingested, it is very unlikely that it will cause you harm (yes, including Heroin).

It is still a valid point though that alcohol is one of the least potent recreational drugs. Gram for gram, it will have less effect on a user compared with any other drug I can think of.

dr.bollocko

penguin88 wrote: »

I like how the percentage for Cannabis combined with None of the above is greater than 100%...someone was obviously a bit confused :P

I get 98.17%.
Maybe you're confused!
Or high...

Kurtosis

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I get 98.17%.
Maybe you're confused!
Or high...

Possibly a combination of both...and I lost my calculator

Dublin_Gunner

penguin88 wrote: »

It is still a valid point though that alcohol is one of the least potent recreational drugs. Gram for gram, it will have less effect on a user compared with any other drug I can think of.

Did you read what I posted above? Its in the top 10 most dangerous, based on addictiveness, social effect, and physical effects on the user.

Also, I cannot remember the last time I ordered a gram of alcohol at the bar :rolleyes:

While what you're saying has some truth, alcohol is consumed in FAR greater quantities per 'hit' than any of the others, so its really a moot point.

Its also vastly cheaper per unit volume purchased, and more readily available than any of the others.

Gnomercy

If alcohol was found today it would never be legal anywhere.

Thank jesus itwas found years ago haha

El Weirdo

Gnomercy wrote: »

If alcohol was found today it would never be legal anywhere.

Thank jesus itwas found years ago haha

As was cannabis.

thebigbiffo

El Weirdo wrote: »

As was cannabis.

and the cocoa leaf, and the poppy

Dublin_Gunner

El Weirdo wrote: »

As was cannabis.

As was cocaine, opium, & heroin used to be a legal drug OTC (about 100/110 years ago).

**edit

lol Biffo - posted the same thing at the exact same time!

Gnomercy

screw you guys, ruined my point!

Zombienosh

You can take all the drugs you want as long as they're taxed and served in liquid form

Kurtosis

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Did you read what I posted above? Its in the top 10 most dangerous, based on addictiveness, social effect, and physical effects on the user.

I did read that. Did you read the paper which that list originated from?

Also, I cannot remember the last time I ordered a gram of alcohol at the bar :rolleyes:

While what you're saying has some truth, alcohol is consumed in FAR greater quantities per 'hit' than any of the others, so its really a moot point.

Its also vastly cheaper per unit volume purchased, and more readily available than any of the others.

I wasn't trying to refute any of your points, I was just pointing out that alcohol does in fact have low potency. Perhaps the reason it is consumed in greater quantities?

Dublin_Gunner

penguin88 wrote: »

I did read that. Did you read the paper which that list originated from?

Yes.

penguin88 wrote: »

I wasn't trying to refute any of your points, I was just pointing out that alcohol does in fact have low potency. Perhaps the reason it is consumed in greater quantities?

Hence my reply. Its a moot point.

Kurtosis

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Yes.

Ok, so if you read it I'm sure you're well aware of the overall aims of the study, the self-admitted minor limitations of their system and, most importantly, the implications of including alcohol and tobacco in it.

Dublin_Gunner

penguin88 wrote: »

Ok, so if you read it I'm sure you're well aware of the overall aims of the study, the self-admitted minor limitations of their system and, most importantly, the implications of including alcohol and tobacco in it.

I side effect of nearly any paper, written on nearly any topic. There are ALWAYS limitations.

However, it does not take away from the results.

Jev/N

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I've never taken any sort of drug legal or otherwise and never will.

To me the brief high you might get just aren't worth the risks to your health and safety.

I think of better ways to spend money and more enjoyable ways to cheer myself up than inhaling/swallowing/injecting poison into myself.

Not to mention that you one risk of coming into contact with very dangerous people if you go downt the illegal route.

LOL, so many misconceptions

ScumLord

thebigbiffo wrote: »

took waaayyyyy to much acid at a party (i'm talking 5 pops upward of some of the strongest acid ever) - tripped for a couple of days. it definitely changed his personality. went from ultra confident, jokey guy to an aloof, stand-offish, withdrawn lad - the worst was for a couple of years afterwards.

this was 10 years ago. he's much more relaxed now and there's not a bother on him...it's just something changed in him that day...

sounds like the start of steve king book ffs

I have a friend who did that too, first time trying acid and he threw 5 microdots into him. Says it changed him forever he hates psychedelics ever since. I'm the opposite I love trips, but I started off on low dozes and worked my way up. Never had a bad experience on them.

thebigbiffo

ScumLord wrote: »

I have a friend who did that too, first time trying acid and he threw 5 microdots into him. Says it changed him forever he hates psychedelics ever since. I'm the opposite I love trips, but I started off on low dozes and worked my way up. Never had a bad experience on them.

i had some of the best experiences of my life on acid...but i also had some of the worst which is why i stopped taking the stuff and wont ever again. graduating yourself upwards is probably a good idea alright

Kurtosis

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I side effect of nearly any paper, written on nearly any topic. There are ALWAYS limitations.

Oh I know.

However, it does not take away from the results.

The results are what they are, but there are faults to the system used as the authors stated (they are in the process I believe of publishing a more comprehensive method of assessing harm using category weightings, which should prove interesting). The way that list is bandied about, it seems people treat it as gospel.

It seems as though you may have missed the part of the paper stating that "direct comparison of the scores for tobacco and alcohol with those of the other drugs is not possible"...