Honduras vs Chile (Group H - Wednesday - 12:30pm - RTE/ITV)

Peyton Manning

vs

FIFA World Cup 2010
Mbombela Stadium
Wednesday 16th June
Kick Off: 12:30pm

Peyton Manning

Okay, I know this match thread is early, but we already have one for the Spain vs Switzerland match later on that day. Chile are the team I've been most looking forward to see play, and considering the dull affair that the World Cup has been so far, I reckon they'll win over a lot of fans on Wednesday with their style of play.

For those that are unfamiliar with Chile, their coach Marcelo Bielsa is one of the modern games great tactical innovators. While most people remember him for failing to get out of the group stages with Argentina in 2002, they tend to forget what he did after the World Cup. He got Argentina to the final of the Copa America (which they lost on penalties) and then coached the team that won the Olympics.

Here's the best part - Bielsa prefers to play a 3-4-3 diamond formation, which means two things: lots of entertainment, and lots of goals - something we've been sadly lacking in this World Cup so far.

Here's an article I wrote on them which is pretty much everything you need to know about the team to watch this summer

Also, imo, their key player is Gary Medel, who I posted about in another thread (see here). He's seriously impressive.

You would be more than forgiven for putting money on Spain coasting through group H at this summer’s World Cup, collecting 9 points on their way. At first glance, Switzerland, Honduras and Chile appear to make up the numbers in that particular group, all battling it out for that runner up spot. Well, you just try and tell that to Marcelo Bielsa.

The Argentine-born Chile manager has put his team back on the footballing map that they appeared to fall off of after the 1998 World Cup. However, thanks to Bielsa, the people of Chile are realising that there is life after Marcelo Salas and Ivan Zamarano. “The Madman”, as he is affectionately known as in his home country, has long been an advocate of the use of fresh and exciting young talent, so it came as no surprise that he jumped at the opportunity of taking over the reins of a country whose youngsters took the 2007 under 20′s World Cup by storm, coming home with the proverbial bronze medal.

Bielsa’s nickname certainly rubs off on his team sheet. There are very few managers out there who play with only 3 at the back and 3 up front, sandwiching a diamond quartet in midfield. Now, typically diamond formations in midfield don’t go hand in hand with exciting, attacking play. By their very design, they tend to be more “safe”, with a holding midfielder to help out on the defensive side of things, an attacking midfielder to provide the link between midfield and the strike force, and two natural centre midfielders in between. But if there’s one thing we’ve learned about Bielsa, it’s that “safe” isn’t in his vocabulary. With the excellent Gary Medel as the holding midfielder, Bielsa’s defensive trio are in safe hands. At 22 years of age, Medel has been making waves in Argentina having recently moved to Boca Juniors. A former Chilean player of the year, he grabbed both goals in Boca’s recent 2-0 over fierce rivals River Plate just last week, and received a standing ovation in Chile’s 1-0 victory over Argentina in the qualifying stage for the World Cup. Medel is a similar player to England’s Owen Hargreaves, and his versatility is vital to his role in Bielsa’s team. When they surrender possession, the original back three of Jara (who is suffering a Beckham-esque “will he, won’t he?” metatarsal drama), Ponce and Cereceda shift left and Medel slots in at right back. Where tradition breaks for Bielsa is in his selection of the midfield two, where he invariably fields at least 1 full back. Ahead of the those 2 will most likely be Mati Fernandez who, despite not fulfilling his potential at club level, has become integral to Bielsa’s team.

The real threat with Chile comes from their strike force. The poster boy of the national football team is Udinese’s 21 year old Alexis Sanchez – a dynamic and skillful outside forward who partners goalscoring sensation Humberto Suazo. Suazo, 28 years old, has been somewhat of a journey man in South American football, plundering over 175 goals in 250-odd appearances before securing a recent loan move to Zaragoza. He has been in similar sensational form for his national side during the qualification stages, finishing as South America’s top scorer ahead of the likes of Luis Fabiano and Diego Forlan. To the left of Suazo is ex-Liverpool winger Mark Gonzalez, who has revived his career following an injury-plagued spell at the Merseyside club. In Fernandez, Sanchez and Gonzalez, Bielsa has young, eager players with blistering pace who will cause all sorts of problems for the best of defences.



Above: Chile's probably starting line-up. (This was written before the 23 man squad was announced, and Cereceda has since been left out. Look for Gary Medel to fill in at the right side of defence, with Millar coming into the midfield.)

Chile also seem to have a tremendous strength in depth, with the likes of Mauricio Isla, Rodrigo Millar and Jean Beausejour all submitting serious claims to a starting XI spot, which comes in very important given the hectic schedule of the World Cup.

Bielsa has put together a thoroughly exciting team in Chile, highlighted by their runner-up spot to Brazil in the South American qualifiers. They also came in as second highest scorers in the group, grabbing 32 goals for their trouble – only 1 behind Dunga’s side. They do concede their fair share of goals, but you get the feeling that with Bielsa, this isn’t too much of a concern. It’s more of a “if you score 4, we’ll score 5″ attitude. Should they manage to get a draw against Spain, which is not beyond the realms of possibility, there is every chance that Chile could outscore the Spaniards in the other two fixtures and potentially finish top of their group. You get the feeling that Bielsa will go all out for that top spot – for a potential last 16 clash with Brazil awaits the runners up in Group H.

Chile open their World Cup campaign against Honduras on June 16th. The match is live on ITV at 12:30pm.

pickarooney

Archi, have you ever done any professional sports writing? If not, you damn well should.

Peyton Manning

pickarooney wrote: »

Archi, have you ever done any professional sports writing? If not, you damn well should.

Cheers mate! Nope, just a hobby at the moment, but it's something I'd very much love to get involved in. Meanwhile, I've spent the past couple of hours doing a more in-depth version of what I posted above though - I'm passionate about Chile It's a slightly more alternative approach to evaluating a team, but it's a long read so be warned! It reads better on the website, but I'll quote it here in case anyone wants to read it without leaving Boards.

Brilliance or Bust for Bielsa's Chile

The internet is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? Okay, so that’s not the best way to open an article about a perennial World Cup underdog, but bare with me here. As you’re reading this article online, I’m going to assume you’re privy to the wicked ways of the world wide web. Therefore I won’t be going into the mechanics of how one could find themselves researching one certain or specific topic on a forum at 3:00 am – perhaps for a college paper or a work report – yet find themselves in a polar opposite corner of the internet at 3:01 am. Now narrow the scope of the internet we’re talking about here to just football blogs and websites, and you still retain that same sinister, almost subliminal habit. It was the summer of 2009, and I think I must have been reading up on the latest transfer rumours and general garbage you get during a non-international tournament year, but that’s not what’s important. What’s important is the random football forum I ended up on at a ridiculous hour in the morning, and the anonymously posted message I read while I was there. There was a discussion on what teams people were looking forward to seeing at the World Cup. Now, obviously there was a great deal of predicting and assuming going on, as South Africa were the only sure team to be there given that they would be hosts. But that’s the joy of footballing debate.

Before I go any further, I’m going to ask you to fast forward to today – Tuesday 15th June to be exact – and ask you again to bare with me, because I’m really excited about what lies ahead. The World Cup has been a pretty cautious affair so far, with only those boring old Germans coming close to thrilling us as we enter the second last match day of the first round of fixtures. But there’s no need to fear, because Brazil are about to kick off their campaign against a lowly, unheard of North Korea side, right? And then there’s Spain, who commence with the tag of favourites the following day, having arrived in South Africa with a run of 33 wins in their last 34 competitive matches. They’ll be the business too, won’t they? Well, either way, I’m not bothered. I’ll watch their respective matches, but it’s neither the Brazilians nor the Spanish that I’m excited about, for there’s another team who kick off their campaign tomorrow. It’s the team who’s bandwagon I’ve made myself at home upon, and a team who I’ve studied relentlessly for the past year. It’s the same team I read about that faithful night at God-knows-what hour, thank’s to a simple, anonymously posted two word response:

“Watch Chile.”

The Coach

To understand Chile, you must first understand their coach Marcelo Bielsa. The 54-year old is very much a cult favourite among those of us who like to analyse games a little bit beyond plain old results. If you are already a follower of Bielsa, then it may please you to discover that you belong to a clique of Bielsistas, a term coined to refer to subscribers of Bielsa’s philosophies. El Loco – as he is affectionately known – is a colourful character, and one who demands the utmost respect from his players, an offering he is more than happy to reciprocate. His renown for being a leader in the tactics of football is derived from his implicit attention to detail and a meticulous deliberation of whatever resources he has available to him regarding his opponents.

Bielsa has been in management for just over three decades now, but don’t let that fool you into thinking that his hunger for success may be on the wane. No manager in South Africa has a greater point to prove than than the former Argentina boss, who saw his highly talented side crash out of the 2002 World Cup in South Korea/Japan. A dream strike partnership of Gabriel Batistuta and Hernan Crespo never materialed due to the players’ mutual dislike of one another, and Bielsa and co. were sent packing before the knockout stage of the tournament. He went on to atone for such a disappointment by guiding Argentina to an Olympic gold medal and a Copa America runner’s up spot, but you get the feeling that such is Bielsa’s fiery, tempestuous character that this is the moment he was been waiting for.

The Team

As for the Chile squad itself, it is one of the younger sides taking part this summer with an average of 25 and only one player above the age of 30. Don’t let that fool you into thinking that this is an unproven and untested squad though, as many of these players have played together at underage level for years during a particularly prosperous period in Chilean football. In 2007, the under-20 national team finished 3rd in the World Cup, being knocked out by eventual winners Argentina in the semi-final. This was followed by the under-21’s finishing as runner’s up in the 2008 Toulon Tournament. Make no mistake about it, this group of players are very familiar with one another and have already tasted a relative level of success on an international scale. This is team who have performed remarkably under Bielsa’s tutelage, finishing just one point and one goal adrift of first-place Brazil in qualification - a team seen by many as favourites to lift the cup. But long gone are the days of household names such as Marcelo Salas, Ivan Zamarano or David Pizzaro. In their places are a team of young, hungry players eager to prove themselves on the biggest stage of all. There are no superstar names in Bielsa’s squad, but that could all change should the Chileans perform to the best of their capabilities this summer.

The Key Players

Alexis Sánchez (WF) is very much the poster boy of Chilean football. Chris Mann has already put together an excellent report on the 21 year old for BackPageFootball as one to watch this summer.


“21 year-old Chilean winger Alexis Sanchez has hardly just burst on to the scene, but this season has seen the Udinese player begin to show signs that he may develop into one of world football’s brightest talents in the years to come.”

“Having scored eight goals in his 26 appearances for the national team to date, Sanchez has shown that he more than has what it takes to play at the very highest level and, after impressing during qualification”……………”the coming months could well shape the career Alexis Sanchez, one of football’s most exciting prospects.”

Humberto Suazo (ST) may not be as instantly recognisable as the aforementioned Salas or Zamarano, but Chupeto certainly has a goalscoring record to rival the very best. In 2006, he had more goals than any other recognised striker in a single season, plundering his way to 52 goals for Colo-Colo. Now plying his trade for Zaragoza in Spain, Suazo is blessed with a delicate touch that is put in tremendous juxtaposition with the thunderous shot at goal that typically follows. On the downside, when things don’t go his way, you’ll be sure to know about it as his reputation for being a goalscorer is often eclipsed by that of being a trouble-maker.

Matías Fernández (AMC) is a skilful player known for both his trickery on the ball as well as a penchant for scoring sensational goals. An indifferent spell at Villareal where he was groomed to be Juan Roman Riquelme’s successor seems to have affected Matí’s confidence, and as a result he can be terribly inconsistent. He has since resurrected his career at Sporting, and Chile will be looking towards Fernández to pull the strings in the trequartista role at the head of a midfield diamond formation – a role he excels in. If Ferández is on form this summer, Chile will be too.

Gary Medel (DM/DR) is a player for whom I have all the time in the world. For all of Chile’s attacking innovation and ingenuity, there is the need for a tenacious defensive talisman to keep a watchful eye on happenings at the back. Given that, there are very few players in South Africa this summer more tenacious and warrior-like than Medel. I have already written about The Chilean Gattuso on my ConsolationGoal blog, but Medel is at the very top of my watch list for the World Cup, and I am sure he is relishing the prospect of going up against Torres, Villa and co. as much as I am looking forward to watching it.

Arturo Vidal (DM) will occupy the holding midfielder position to offer Chile some balance and protection from the counter attack. He has played alongside midfield partner Carlos Carmona since the under-20 World Cup in 2007, and although he has struggled to maintain the abnormal goalscoring record he held for a defensive midfielder at underage level, he is still one of Chile’s most important players as he offers the forward quartet of Suazo, Sanchez, Fernandez and Gonzalez peace of mind should they lose possession.

The Tactics

This is where the fun begins, as Bielsa adopts a very strict 3-4-3 formation. Attacking wise (below left), this makes for some scintillating viewing, as Fernández operates as the trequartista, providing service out wide to Sánchez and ex-Liverpool winger Mark Gonzalez. Expect too see those three interchange positions regularly as they look to confuse their opponents and shake markers. It is an extraordinarly quick forward line that will leave defence’s requiring an awful lot of help from their defensive midfielders in front. Dont be surprised to see Spain start with Sergio Busquets when these two meet, regardless of assured qualification or not. Expect Millar and Vidal to provide that quick link between defence and attack as they look to get the ball to Fernández, especially on the counter attack which Chile just love to play. Watch out for Gary Medel darting forward quite often too, as asking him to stay back for a whole game is akin to placing a juicy steak in front of a pitbull and commanding him to sit.

Defensively, or more appropriately, when they are not in possession (above right) Chile seem to come up short which is no surprise given their formation. Sánchez and Gonzalez are required to track back whenever possession is lost to help out Jara and Medel. The latter will revert to right back where he plays for Boca, while Jara – the more central of the two – often needs help from Carmona and Vidal, or indeed Gonzalez should the threat come from a left wing position. As a result, the regular back three stretches itself, while a new narrow block of three midfielders (Vidal, Carmona and Millar) drop back and sit on top of them, creating a trapezoid or flat-top triangle. Fernández and Suazo are relieved of defensives apart from closing down nearby opposing players, and positioning themselves in the way of prospective passes.

Despite a lack of celebrity, Chile are not in South Africa to make up the numbers. They have more than enough quality to cause even the best of teams serious problems, a theory that will be put to the test when they face Spain on June 25th. While there is a very realistic possibility that Spain will simply prove too efficient for a Chile side who like to be the ones doing the attacking, Marcelo Bielsa’s side should make the knockout stage with relative ease.

I have to say it’s been an interesting year here on my new bandwagon. Marcelo Bielsa and his tactics have opened my eyes to a world beyond packing the midfield, and prioritising not losing above winning – something I seem to have become accustomed in 99% of the matches I watch. Sadly, it’s been well documented that we are currently experiencing the dullest start goals scored-wise to a World Cup on record. And traditionally, it’s the South Americans and their attractive, easy on the eye brand of football who open up these tournaments for the better. However, this time round, it might not be the two you have in mind…

pickarooney

Have you any interest in proofreading feedback? There are just a couple of mistakes that take slightly from a superb article.

Peyton Manning

pickarooney wrote: »

Have you any interest in proofreading feedback? There are just a couple of mistakes that take slightly from a superb article.

Yeah if you want to point them out I'd appreciate it, quite bleary eyed at the moment

redout

Cant say I agree with Spain being outscored by Chile or a draw.

Fully expect three wins for Spain - even their second eleven are capable of beating all three.

The second 11 is also what Chile will be facing as its the final game of the group - we saw the same in Euro 2008 for the final group match with practically the entire starting 11 replaced.

Paquirrín should be good for a laugh or two.

pickarooney

bare with me -> bear with me (x2)

faithful night -> fateful night

one could find themselves -> one could find oneself (x2)

It’s the team who’s -> It’s the team whose

thank's -> thanks

meticulous deliberation of whatever resources he has available to him regarding his opponents -> 'deliberation' doesn't read right here, nor does 'regarding'. I'm not 100% sure what you mean with this sentence so can't really offer an alternative

materialed -> materialised? (this means that they never actually played together as opposed to not clicking. I can't remember which was the case in 2002)

runner’s up -> runners up

This is team -> This is a team

tremendous juxtaposition -> tremendous contrast maybe? juxtaposition isn't really measurable

both his trickery on the ball as well as -> both his trickery on the ball and (or 'his trickery on the ball as well as...')

am looking forward to watching it -> am looking forward to watching him/the encouter (you can't watch the prospect)

abnormal goalscoring record -> I presume you mean he scored a lot, but it's not really clear if this is abnormally high or abnormally low or abnormally inconsistent.

Expect too see those three -> Expect to see those three

will leave defence’s requiring -> will leave defences requiring

Dont be surprised -> Don't be surprised

Headshot

pimping ehh.....

im looking forward to this match, chile are one of my favourite teams to watch, great passing and counter attacking team

edit
is this the creative writing forum?

pickarooney

I'm looking forward to seeing them myselves now. I've never had occasion to watch Honduras but I guess they're a bit of a one-man team and should be ripe for the picking.

Peyton Manning

Headshot wrote: »

pimping ehh.....

im looking forward to this match, chile are one of my favourite teams to watch, great passing and counter attacking team

edit
is this the creative writing forum?

How is it pimping? I put a lot of effort into writing something about one of the teams involved in this match, and Lord knows if you don't link to where a story is from around here, the next post will inevitably be "Source?" and you get attacked. Why should it be any different just because it's a site I write for rather than some shíte transfer rumour from the Daily Mail that you know isn't true anyway?

And no, you know well it's not the creative writing forum, but pickarooney offered some constructive feedback which I was more than grateful to receive.

Catenaccio!

Archimedes' analysis >>>>> Headshot's single sentence tbh.

Headshot

Archimedes wrote: »

How is it pimping? I put a lot of effort into writing something about one of the teams involved in this match, and Lord knows if you don't link to where a story is from around here, the next post will inevitably be "Source?" and you get attacked. Why should it be any different just because it's a site I write for rather than some shíte transfer rumour from the Daily Mail that you know isn't true anyway?

And no, you know well it's not the creative writing forum, but pickarooney offered some constructive feedback which I was more than grateful to receive.

we all know its from you so there really no need for a source but look arch im in a very good mood so lets forget about it

FatherTed

I'm predicting a 1-1 draw.

I've watched a lot of Honduras over the years in the US. Some good players in Pavon, Guevara(bit of a hothead), Palacios and Hendry Thomas.

steelcityblues

Fancy the forgotten man David Suazo to score in this one!

Peyton Manning

steelcityblues wrote: »

Fancy the forgotten man David Suazo to score in this one!

He's struggling to recover from an injury, and doubtful to start.

In slightly more awesome news, Honduras will set a record as the first team to have three brothers in the same World Cup squad.

Johnny and Wilson Palacios' brother Jerry has been called up to the squad today as a late replacement for injured Julio Cesar de Leon. Not that losing a key player such as Leon is awesome, but its a pretty cool record to set.

That_Guy

Have Chile in a draw I did with mates. Looking forward to seeing them.

Also kudos Archie on the Chile article.

Cypher_sounds

That Welcome better be starting for Honduras, imagine walking in the door and de tele on, and all u hear is someone scream WELCOMEEEEE, that would be a nice welcome home especially if hes in your FF:P

That_Guy

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

That Welcome better be starting for Honduras, imagine walking in the door and de tele on, and all u hear is someone scream WELCOMEEEEE, that would be a nice welcome home especially if hes in your FF:P

Better than a dog slobbering on you and sinking his paws into your privates anyway.

Mr.Nice Guy

I know Chile are hotly fancied but I read an extraordinary stat that they haven't won a game at the World Cup since 1962 and apparently have therefore the worst run of losses of the teams there. Do they have the bottle for the big occasion this time?

On another note, can anyone tell me a bit about Edgar Alvarez of Honduras. I picked him for my FF team as I heard he did well in Serie A but I can't recall seeing him live. Anyone know if he should start? Is he any use etc.?

Peyton Manning

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

On another note, can anyone tell me a bit about Edgar Alvarez of Honduras. I picked him for my FF team as I heard he did well in Serie A but I can't recall seeing him live. Anyone know if he should start? Is he any use etc.?

He would definitely be considered one of the fastest players at the World Cup if nothing else. He plays predominantly on the right but Honduras are prone to allowing their wingers to swap positions (think of anytime Ronaldo and Nani played out wide for United and how they would always switch sides). Very traditional winger though, similar to Valencia in that he won't score many goals, but he'll create a few. Honduras are predominantly a defensive side though so I wouldn't expect him to have much of an impact Fantasy Football wise, especially against Chile and Spain.

pickarooney

Archimedes wrote: »

He's struggling to recover from an injury, and doubtful to start.

In slightly more awesome news, Honduras will set a record as the first team to have three brothers in the same World Cup squad.

Johnny and Wilson Palacios' brother Jerry has been called up to the squad today as a late replacement for injured Julio Cesar de Leon. Not that losing a key player such as Leon is awesome, but its a pretty cool record to set.

I was sure at least three of the Mubaraks in the UAE's 1990 squad were bros.

pickarooney

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I know Chile are hotly fancied but I read an extraordinary stat that they haven't won a game at the World Cup since 1962 and apparently have therefore the worst run of losses of the teams there. Do they have the bottle for the big occasion this time?

The flip side of that is that they were unbeaten in 1998 and absolutely robbed against Italy. They've not been back since, until now. They were also banned from the '90 and '94 World Cups over the Rojas-with-the-shards-of-glass incident.

mathie

I've given Honduras a goal start and Chile to win
Come on the Chile!

redout

No Paquirrín in the lineup

He has been a doubt for some time.

Nuri Sahin

Both Suazo's on the bench(only H Suazo really mattered for me) :rolleyes:

mathie

Ref: Eddy Maillet

Timmy Mallets French Cousin?

thusspakeblixa

2-1 Chile.

Pavon to get the Honduras goal.

Gillington

Honduras

* 18 Valladares
* 02 Chavez
* 03 Figueroa
* 21 Izaguirre
* 23 Mendoza
* 07 Nunez
* 08 Wilson Palacios
* 13 Espinoza
* 17 Alvarez
* 20 Guevara (Captain)
* 09 Pavon

Chile

* 01 Bravo (Captain)
* 03 Carrizo
* 04 Isla
* 17 Medel
* 06 Carmona
* 08 Vidal
* 10 Valdivia
* 14 Fernandez
* 20 Rodrigo Millar
* 07 Sanchez
* 15 Beausejour

keano_afc

Harsh yellow there, so early in the game.

mewso

Yeah joke of a yellow card.

jayteecork

Who's the co-commentator on RTE?

He's good and seems to know what he's talking about.
Pleasure to listen to him instead of the mindless, self-indulgent drivel from the likes of Andy Gray, Jim Beglin, and Ray Houghton.

cm2000

Damien Richardson, big League of Ireland expert, most recently managing Cork City. Quite a good analyst, though goes on about the flight of the ball a bit much.

MementoMori

Damian Richardson on RTE

Decent game of ball so far with Chile on top but maybe lacking that touch of class in the final third. Honduras seem limited but are doing a solid job of trying to contain Chile.

thusspakeblixa

jayteecork wrote: »

Who's the co-commentator on RTE?

He's good and seems to know what he's talking about.
Pleasure to listen to him instead of the mindless drivel from the likes of Andy Gray, Jim Beglin, and Ray Houghton.

Damien Richardson- he does most RTE League of Ireland matches.
I think he should be given far more airtime.
He's also managing the Loi XI to face Man U.

Peyton Manning

How is that not a free?

Gonzovision

Ref is ruining this.

MR NINE

This ref is getting everything wrong

titan18

This ref is shocking

Headshot

this ref is awful

how the hell did pal just get a yellow there

Peyton Manning

FFS ref.

Headshot

get in there

Peyton Manning

1-0 Chile

They've passed the ball as well as any team we've seen so far.

jayteecork

That's one of the goals of the world cup.
Great team effort.

Columbia

Great goal. But...

RTE: "There's no luck involved in that"

There was a bit, in fairness.

MementoMori

1-0 Chile

Striker got a little lucky but Chile well worthy of being ahead.

Agree with the ref being awful....think overall this is the worst reffing performance of the tournament so far even including the ref who sent Cahill off.

Wonder how Honduras will react. Hard to see Chile sitting back given their formation and approach so far.

Peyton Manning

I could've sworn I've seen Beausejour score more than 1 goal for Chile... Strange.

jayteecork

another great move there - flicks, backheels. would have been some goal.

pickarooney

The diagonal pass - embrace it

_Bella_

Anyone else now really looking foreward to Spain vs Chile?

Smegball

Chile are an absolute joy to watch, refreshing compared to the cautious football we have mostly seen so far.

Get Suazo back in that team and drop Valdivia back to the playmaker position and we have ourselves a prospect.