England -v- Algeria, Fri 7:30pm RTE & ITV HD

flahavaj

Pro. F wrote: »

Gerrard Barry Lampard Winger

That type of midfield is the root of all England's problems. Amazing lack of central midfielders with the necessary quality of close control in that country. Gerrard, Lampard, Barry, Carrick, Hargreaves etc., all struggle when called upon to hold onto possession in central midfield. Compare them to Xavi, Alonso, Cesc, Sweinstiger, Pirlo or even the more combative types like Essien, Y Toure, Cambiasso. Compared to those types of players England always struggle to make a team that can keep enough possession.

This. Excellent summation of my feelings on the English team's main problem.

KittyeeTrix

Ush1 wrote: »

What else would you do with one?

England were shocking!!!
I kept thinking every so often during the game, they'll turn it around now........... but obviously never happened!
Have a few thoughts on Rooney but defo not getting involved with this argument;)

Mezcita

flahavaj wrote: »

This. Excellent summation of my feelings on the English team's main problem.

Agreed. It's actually nuts how long Gerrard and Lampard have been in that team without it ever really working well.

mewso

Perfect Choice wrote: »

Looks like a fan made his/her way into the England dressing room after the game......

Anything like this I wonder (warning bad language):-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GuuggHSvsA

but they probably needed something more like this:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4x05Z3MSkQ

Mr Alan

Mezcita wrote: »

Agreed. It's actually nuts how long Gerrard and Lampard have been in that team without it ever really working well.

In fairness England were extremely impressive in Qualification for this tournament.

Paul Tergat

Tonight was a ****ing embarrassment for us.

Not one player looked capable of putting their foot on the ball and stringing some passes together.

Rooney is imo clearly not fully fit, he doesnt look right at all.

So many players underperforming and not willing to fight for the cause.

Its just not good enough.

We do not deserve to go through to the next round

Barr

Cant believe what a poor game it was , England looked like they never got started.

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

In fairness England were extremely impressive in Qualification for this tournament.

That's the thing, what were they doing differently back then? I think the only game I saw was their home game against Croatia. I can't think what might have been different now from during the qualifying campaign. Were they just made look good by an easy group, an in form Rooney, a solid defence and a team high on confidence? Maybe that explains the change in fortunes.

Mr. Guappa

Pro. F wrote: »

That's the thing, what were they doing differently back then? I think the only game I saw was their home game against Croatia. I can't think what might have been different now from during the qualifying campaign. Were they just made look good by an easy group, an in form Rooney, a solid defence and a team high on confidence? Maybe that explains the change in fortunes.

Confidence has something to do with it I think. The decision to bring back Carragher and reach out to Scholes cannot have sent out a good signal to the team.

I also think England will play better (if they qualify) against teams who will dominate possession and attack them. The English players are much better suited to swift counter attacks rather than slow-build attacks.

Livvie

I hope Capello makes them sit through that game at least twice. Losing or drawing isn't the problem, but the seeming lack of effort and passion is.

briany

I suspect that England will sneak it through to the second round still. I never thought they would fail to beat Algeria but there you go. However, I think that they will rally and beat Slovenia although it will be a tough tough game. If they fail to do that, well...The reaction will be entertaining to say the least. The Sun will look pretty stupid but of course they always do, right?

aidan24326

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I reckon that Capello could have done a lot more to change things. SWP for Lennon was a nothing sub, Joe Cole should have definitely come on.. he is the closest thing England have to a playmaker.

I am amzed Joe Cole has not seen a minute of action yet. And you're right, SWP for Lennon was a pointless substitution as they're almost identical players. It's really surprising that a man of Capello's experience has gotten it so wrong in these two games. What he's tried to do so far simply hasn't worked at all and he has some serious thinking to do before the Slovenia game.

They will probably get out of the group just about, but they will be gone in the last 16 unless major improvement comes from somewhere. The likes of Rooney and Lampard have looked pale shadows of themselves so far. Overall the players seem very tense and edgy, and afraid to make a mistake. You'd have to wonder if all is fully right in the camp?

elius

I predicted this before the world cup even kicked of in the toilet of my local 2 weeks ago. There is only 3 players on the team who had a good season.
Rooney and Lampard and J. Hart. All the rest are average and border line ****e Bar cole and terry who have other things on there mind..

Stephen G Had one of his worst season to date.
Defoe started of well but ran out of steam towards the end of the season Crouch found himself bench warming more often than not.
Terry had his mind on other things.
Millner made to look good buy his poor enough team mates.
heskey your having a laugh
Carrick was useless
Lennon Suffered with injuries for the best part of the season
Barry Was poor and was talked about being poor during the season
A Cole Was left bye his wife after his sex texting scandle
CarraYour having a Fooking laugh
johnsonStarted well but again ran out of steam after injuries etc


All joking aside does this look like a team capable of wining the world cup. Again the english press talks them up at being something when in fact there mostly all average at best. Id love to se them meet spain or brazil or argentina because buy fook they would be in for some beating.
Xavi or Barry
Inesta Or Gerrard
Marcon or Johnson
Lennon or Di Maria
You get the picture.

The Cannibal

They should toss some money at Hiddink for the euros.

everdead.ie

I must say looking back at the match yesterday and specifically at Gerrards comments about algerias world cup final. The team comes across with a superiority complex far above what they deserve it wasn't just bad form that brought the worst out of this English team but a lack of heart and conviction added with a struggling Rooney that still needs to recover from his ankle injury this England team need to look at themselves and sort there heads out before the next match.

namloc1980

England need a massive improvement if they hope to qualify for the next round. Slovenia will represent a much more potent attacking threat than Algeria. If England concede possession as cheaply as they have in the first two games (and they probably will as they simply can't retain possession like Argentina, Germany etc) then it ill be another long game for England

Livvie

namloc1980 wrote: »

then it ill be another long game for England

And the fans.

You can feel yourself going for every ball as you watch it and will them to a) get it, b) control it and c) do something positive with it.

It's very tiring.

LordSutch

England have completly lost the plot, Capello should sit the team down in front of a TV & make them watch the Denmark-Cameroon game, those two teams gave their all (a thrilling performance) that made England look second rate, and I say that as an England fan :mad:

CR 7

Camelot wrote: »

England have completly lost the plot, Capello should sit the team down in front of a TV & make them watch the Denmark-Cameroon game, those two teams gave their all (a thrilling performance) that made England look second rate, and I say that as an England fan :mad:

So basically, just tell them not to bother defending. And tell slovenia the same while he's at it. They might not win, but it'll make the game exciting.

redout

Gotta applaud Terry for his comments.

Team mmeting tonight were thoughts will be vented.

He said if it upsets Capello then so be it.

everdead.ie

redout wrote: »

Gotta applaud Terry for his comments.

Team mmeting tonight were thoughts will be vented.

He said if it upsets Capello then so be it.

What was the just of what Terry said?

redout

everdead.ie wrote: »

What was the just of what Terry said?

He said they are having a team meeting tonight and "If we feel something has to change, we owe it to the country and the manager to say it in that meeting tonight. If it upsets him or any other player, so what."

_Bella_

He basically said

The he first thing he says is that there is no unrest in the England camp: "I'm here on behalf of the players and we are full behind the manager. What was probably most interesting about John Terry had to say was that there will be a meeting between Fabio Capello and the England players later today, when Terry says the squad will be "voicing their opinion" and are not bothered who it upsets. Terry also thinks Joe Cole could make a difference for England, saying: "I personally think he and Wayne Rooney are the only two in the side who can really open up things and are key to breaking down defences. If he's called on, Joe will do a great job.I've read about us playing with fear... There are always nerves but it's not an issue. We need to think, go for it, we've got one game against Slovenia where we can make or break our tournament. I don't want to go home early - I am here to win the World Cup."

That_Guy

Still kinda surprised that Gerrard didn't take the inititative to have that press conference instead of Terry.

I thought Terry came across well but it should really the captain who should've done it, or at least joined him.

Mr Alan

am i reading that right? is Terry saying that Cole should be playing? And that they're gonna meet tonight and tell Capello wat they think should happen? football is so ****in broken.

That_Guy

Mr Alan wrote: »

am i reading that right? is Terry saying that Cole should be playing? And that they're gonna meet tonight and tell Capello wat they think should happen? football is so ****in broken.

They can give advice but at the end of the day Capello is going to do what he thinks is right.

If he gives in to their supposed demands then it shows weakness and as a manager you should be able to control your players.

Surely he knows that there needs to be massive changes but he shouldn't allow himself to be bullied into making these decisions.

Mr Alan

if i was the manager i'd send Terry home. no problem wit players voicing their opinion in private, but going to a press conference and saying that you're gonna have a meeting with the manager to voice your opinions cause things aren't going right, and specifically saying that you think a certain player should be playing? Unbelievable.

Livvie

Mr Alan wrote: »

if i was the manager i'd send Terry home. no problem wit players voicing their opinion in private, but going to a press conference and saying that you're gonna have a meeting with the manager to voice your opinions cause things aren't going right, and specifically saying that you think a certain player should be playing? Unbelievable.

Sending Terry home would surely unsettle the players even more. Regardless of discipline or whatever, would Capello want that?

It didn't work for Mick McCarthy.

Mr Alan

Livvie wrote: »

Sending Terry home would surely unsettle the players even more. Regardless of discipline or whatever, would Capello want that?

It didn't work for Mick McCarthy.

Debatable. Well maybe Capello should just head home and let John manage the team.

lordgoat

I agree with Al to some degree, no player has no place in coming out in the middle of a tournament and saying what should happen in relation to the team. You row in and show a united front while still in the competition. It's not like the manager is new. They knew what they were getting into before it. You put your head down and you work, you don't grumble or whinge that someone you feel should be playing you do your job abd you tell everyone else to do theirs.

redout

Mr Alan wrote: »

if i was the manager i'd send Terry home. no problem wit players voicing their opinion in private, but going to a press conference and saying that you're gonna have a meeting with the manager to voice your opinions cause things aren't going right, and specifically saying that you think a certain player should be playing? Unbelievable.

Al you cant really send Terry home and he knows that - possibly why he had the balls to say it.

Rio - gone
King - about 2 weeks
Carra - Suspended

Only Dawson and Upson available bar Terry.

Mr Alan

wouldn't give a **** i'd play someone else at CB....or i'd play him in that game then send him home. bottom line, what he has done is unacceptable and symtomatic of what's wrong with football, players think they know it all when in reality, someone like Capello has forgotten more about the game than someone like Terry will ever know.

Kirby

Yes but in this case he is right. Capello's team selection has been poor.

Using Wright-Philips instead of Joe Cole in both games was a mystery to me.
Persisting with Heskey in the team. There is merit to playing him but at the moment, the team aren't playing well with him in the side.
Playing Gerrard on the Left. A stronger manager would make the right decision, and drop either gerrard and lampard. They both can't play and sooner or later an England manager has to accept that shunting one of them out to the left wing doesn't work.

Have to say, I've been very unimpressed with Capello. The players aren't doing it on the pitch, and in my view are nowhere near capable of winning a world cup playing like this. But the manager isn't helping.

jesus_thats_gre

That_Guy wrote: »

Still kinda surprised that Gerrard didn't take the inititative to have that press conference instead of Terry.

I thought Terry came across well but it should really the captain who should've done it, or at least joined him.

Not surprisedat all myself. Gerrard isn't a leader. Terry on the other hand believes that he is and obviously has something to prove. He could also be repaying Capello back for stripping him of his captaincy.

_Bella_

You can watch it here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8750303.stm

_Bella_

Mr Alan wrote: »

am i reading that right? is Terry saying that Cole should be playing? And that they're gonna meet tonight and tell Capello wat they think should happen? football is so ****in broken.

He was asked does he think Joe Cole should play

Mr Alan

_Bella_ wrote: »

He was asked does he think Joe Cole should play

'we're very lucky we've a very talented pool of players to choose from-the manager works with us every day and knows better than anyone what we need and what he wants from us, if he picks Joe-he'll do great cause he's a great player, but if he doesn't people like Shaun, James, Aaron, Frank and Stevie offer so much threat that we're good either way'. Something like that would suffice.

Het-Field

everdead.ie wrote: »

I must say looking back at the match yesterday and specifically at Gerrards comments about algerias world cup final. The team comes across with a superiority complex far above what they deserve it wasn't just bad form that brought the worst out of this English team but a lack of heart and conviction added with a struggling Rooney that still needs to recover from his ankle injury this England team need to look at themselves and sort there heads out before the next match.

With due respect, England should be beating Algeria. Although it was a friendly, Ireland outclassed the guts of that Algeria side in Dublin three weeks ago.

However, England are not a good team. At no point have I entertained the possiblilty of England lifting the trophy. The guts of the team played in a weak Liverpool team which was demoralised last season, the forward line is weak, and two of their three goalkeepers were in a relegation dogfight.

This World Cup should have been the swansong for Gary Neville and David Beckham, the likes of Michael Owen, Kieron Dyer and Phil Neville should have been at their prime, while Dean Ashton should have been the reserve striker as he was a more gifted player then any of England's reserve forwards. It is also a shame that the likes of Paul Robinson, Owen Hargreves, Stuart Downing, Theo Walcott and Darren Bent have not been capable of moving forward in their careers, which appeared to be on the up after the last World Cup. Effectively, England have not been capable/allowed to nurture developing talent, and injuries have wrecked the careers of some of England's brightest prospects.

Without Owen and Ashton, England are left with inferior players like Peter Crouch and Heskey. Without Dyer fulfilling his potential, England are reduced to playing Lennon who reminds me of Terry Phelan. Given the loss of confidence in Robinson, England have plumped for goalkeepers who have a record for howlers. The absence of Owen Hargerves and Stuart Downing reduces the ability of the team to seek out something different when such a move is required.

It all adds up to a poor team, which is low on confidence, and low on talent.

Livvie

Het-Field wrote: »

However, England are not a good team.

You're right there. And even if they had eleven world class players, it wouldn't make them a team. You see better team work from the countries that have less to choose from, so who learn to work together as a solid unit.

adox

My take on it, as I watched the press conference live, is there's been a bit of spin being put on it.

Terry said they we're having a meeting with the manager tonight to go through what happened against Algeria, maybe watch a video of the match to see where they went wrong etc and discuss Wednesdays game.

It was then the journalists started asking about Anelka and wheter he tought he should have been sent home and would any of the England players speak out at the manager if they felt it was right.

Sky Sports were trying to jump on every little word, splice answers together as if they were the one answer etc

I'm no fan of Terry but I didn't read anything controversial into what he said at the press conference. He was asaked about Joe Cole and he intimated that he would play him if he was manager. That's as close as he came IMO to saying anything controversial.

Spin spin spin IMO.

adox

Edit..... Just watching sky sports. Headlines.... John Terry to have clear the air talks with Capello tonight :rolleyes:

Krusader

adox wrote: »

I'm no fan of Terry but I didn't read anything controversial into what he said at the press conference. He was asaked about Joe Cole and he intimated that he would play him if he was manager. That's as close as he came IMO to saying anything controversial.

Spin spin spin IMO.

Its like their own media want them to fail just so they can fill pages

Livvie

Crosáidí wrote: »

Its like their own media want them to fail just so they can fill pages

Or to be able to use "clever" headlines.

Boskowski

You just gotta love it. Sadly I'm beginning to run out of pop-corn. :pac:

_Bella_

Interesting article on it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2010/06/is_england_a_united_camp.html

turly

The England team visited an orphanage in Cape Town today.
"It's heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope",
said Jamal, aged 6.

Saw this on reddit earlier, and my apologies if it's already been posted...

redout

Good god - SSN saying Terry went rogue with his comments yesterday and didnt have the support of the dressing room.

The players are said to be furious - Lampard will do a conference now.

The only thing Capello has seemingly agreed to is to name his side earlier than 2hrs before kick-off

Lukker-

redout wrote: »

Good god - SSN saying Terry went rogue with his comments yesterday and didnt have the support of the dressing room.

The players are said to be furious - Lampard will do a conference now.

The only thing Capello has seemingly agreed to is to name his side earlier than 2hrs before kick-off

Yeah and other sources saying that Capello simply didn't give them an oppurtunity to speak. I'll wait until the press confrence to judge because Sky are worse than the Sun for taking things out of context.

redout

Lukker- wrote: »

Yeah and other sources saying that Capello simply didn't give them an oppurtunity to speak. I'll wait until the press confrence to judge because Sky are worse than the Sun for taking things out of context.

Yeah - Lampard didnt say nothing about this lineup being named before 2hrs.

He did say that he didnt think Terry literally meant what he said.

Not sure about that to be honest - seems an excuse.

Quite sure Terry did mean it and now it turns out he had no support.

Lukker-

redout wrote: »

Yeah - Lampard didnt say nothing about this lineup being named before 2hrs.

He did say that he didnt think Terry literally meant what he said.

Not sure about that to be honest - seems an excuse.

Quite sure Terry did mean it and now it turns out he had no support.

I dunno every site is running a different story, but it's clear that Terry was blocked from speaking out a meeting by Capello himself.