Why would you give Labor your vote ?

Drumpot

Just curious as I am very dissapointed at WHY their popularity has shot up recently and the only reason I can see it is because they tell people what they want to hear (as opposed to desperately needed home truths). .

They offer nothing definitive, but we all know that at the very least, the public service will be looked after, ( Yay another public partnership paid for by the taxpayers). .

They wont commit to things like the Croke Park agreement. Right now a procrastinating government is a recipe for disaster.

They cant actually say where they would make the cuts. . I was on the front-line when Howlin was there saying they already had the 2billion in cuts required. when pressed he kept referring to a document he had, when he read it out, he couldn't actually clarify exactly how they would save the money. Everybody agreed he had simply talked himself into trouble, but this seems to be a distinct feature of labor. All style and no substance. .

The people of Ireland appear to be lapping up all the waffle that Gilemore throws out. . All he does is bash the government and make general wide-sweeping statements, suggesting he will not let the travesty continue if he gets into power (but never elaborates how he will do it). Have we learned no lessons from B.S'er Bertie ?

Its unpopular to say anything positive about FF on boards.ie. . But I fear that a fair bit of what they are doing is actually required and people are just too angry to acknowledge it. I also feel that some of FG's problems are that they know that alot of the crap being put on the Irish taxpayers is inevitable/required (so they arent attacking FF as much) and that labor are just saying any old crap to get people to like them, which could cost us all . .

I hope that this is just the Irish electorate slumming it with labor just in plain anger and dismay at the two biggest party's in the land, but that by the time elections come by, sanity will prevail . .

Our country needs a great leader (which to be honest we wont get no matter who gets in), but in the absence of this at the very least we need a party that will make the hard unpopular decisions (at least until we are out of the recession properly) and labor do not come across in anyway as a party interested or capable of doing this . .

I dont canvass for any party, but until I see substance from Labor, I will be imploring people to see sense. .

Fuhrer

Labour

i like lamp

why vote for any of the parties!! i cant see any of them that are genuine! Enda Kenny has shown his true colours!!

I think Ireland needs a government based on a mixture of people from different parties voted in specifically by the public and who THE PEOPLE think should be in the position! and if the public arent happy with what the person is doing, show them the door!

Let the people of Ireland take control! is that possible though!

Fuhrer

i like lamp wrote: »

why vote for any of the parties!! i cant see any of them that are genuine! Enda Kenny has shown his true colours!!

I think Ireland needs a government based on a mixture of people from different parties voted in specifically by the public and who THE PEOPLE think should be in the position! and if the public arent happy with what the person is doing, show them the door!

Let the people of Ireland take control! is that possible though!

A mix of people with different ideologies who are immediately fired if they you aren't 100% happy with what they are doing all the time?

Yeah, sounds like a really stable and efficient system of government.

Nehaxak

Not going to happen as there seems (in my opinion anyway) a huge swath of populist opinion in favour of more socialist parties, Labour being the easier socialist based party to swallow.

Capitalist leaning parties and capitalist ideals in particular seem to have failed if not destroyed the country.

What sickens me though is that they (or Capitalism in this country to be more specific) revert back to socialist ideals to bail them out when things go bad :rolleyes:

It won't work if it's Labour/FG as it'll only end up a mess with socialsm/capitalism being mixed together again. It's either one or the other, not both, it will never ever work with both being intermingled.

My personal choice at this point in time would be socialism with a socialist party at the helm of government. If that means I have to vote Labour then I will, if I even bother to vote at all that is.

Speak Now

Who's this Labor you speak of?

seamus

I imagine if an election were called today, the results of that poll wouldn't accurately reflect reality.

IMO, Labour have done well because when the question is asked, Labour are the default only choice left.

When asked the question, someone is going to snub FF for obvious reasons, they're going to be less favourable of FG because they just appear to be engaging in point-scoring and being contrary with no real backbone behind them. SF have their obvious flaws.
Which leaves Labour - middle-ground, fence-sitting, bland, Labour. If you have to pick someone, you'll pick the party who you find the least objectionable, and Labour haven't done much to ruffle any feathers (in a good or bad way), so in an on-street poll people pick them.

You also must consider that this is a poll which doesn't accurately reflect voting patterns. If you take the full figures, then the spread of voter preferences hits 100%. But in reality 100% of people won't vote. In fact, at least 30% of people won't vote for whatever reason. I presume that this poll is set up in such a way that only those people are counted in the poll where they have said a firm "yes" or "no" for any particular party. Anyone who says they're undecided may be struck off from the poll.
What this means is that FF and FG may have lost a lot of support from people saying "I don't know", but Labour people are still relatively pro-Labour. This means that while Labour's actual support may have not changed much, their "confirmed" support appears larger compared to the other two parties who have lost large amounts of supporters into the grey area.

In reality, on a voting day, the "I don't know"s will come out and make a decision and will probably go with FF or FG instead of Labour. The poll looks good for Labour, but it's not a bankable result.

i like lamp

Fuhrer wrote: »

A mix of people with different ideologies who are immediately fired if they you aren't 100% happy with what they are doing all the time?

Yeah, sounds like a really stable and efficient system of government.

ha at least they wouldnt have a chance to destroy the economy... :P yeah i change my tactics!! give them a week in power and then change to someone else...

no but what i mean is and this is just an example!
somebody from greens might be best for the environment
somebody from fianna fail might be best for education
somebody from fine gail might be best for health
an independant party might be best for finance
etc etc etc!

i dont vote for a party i vote for which individual regardless of what party i think is best for the job in my constituency, that view may change from year to year based on the needs of the area!

Liam Byrne

i like lamp wrote: »

i dont vote for a party i vote for which individual regardless of what party i think is best for the job in my constituency, that view may change from year to year based on the needs of the area!

But the point is that that's not their job!

Re the OP's question, considering the absolute mess that blatant and corrupt capitalism has landed us in, I think a Labour government (assuming that they show a bit of cop-on in terms of the public service) would be good for the country at this stage.

After all, if "we're all" supposed to share the pain, then the benefits should be spread around.

FF have shown that they support capitalism until it goes wrong, with people not seeing the benefit of profits (and people being dismissively told to "shop around" when they point out the overheating and rip-off culture); but as soon as the capitalists screw up, they bail them out with our money.

So it's perfectly understandable if lots of people are saying "feck that, so".

gandalf

i like lamp wrote: »

i dont vote for a party i vote for which individual regardless of what party i think is best for the job in my constituency, that view may change from year to year based on the needs of the area!

That is a councillors job and that is what's wrong with National Politics in this country.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Nehaxak

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

...and if he doesn't - people will be left to vote for Enda, which is just not going to work out, ever, no matter how many old grannies from around the country say how lovely he is, and isn't his hair always lovely too...

gandalf

Labour are riding a protest wave at the moment.

Gilmore is whinging and some people are identifying with that, especially those from the Public Service who would normally vote for Fianna Fail. Whether they can actually turn the poll numbers into seats is another story.

I am an ex Labour party member and I certainly will not be voting for them given their inability to smell the roses and realise that drastic changes have to be made to the Public Service that will involve very unpopular cuts. I am especially uncomfortable that some one of the calibre of Jack O'Connor is on the National Executive given his propensity for living in an alternative reality to the rest of us in Ireland.

I do think they actually know this but are hoping to ride the wave into power come out with the old line "The previous Government did not make clear how bad the situation actually is" and the go ahead and make the necessary cuts.

invinciblePRSTV

OP why do you even ask such a question? We're dealing with 13% unemployment, huge cuts to public services and the wealthy Irish elite are untouched, of course people are going to vote left.

Lol at at the usual suspects predicting disaster if Labour took power, the parties of the right championed the development of Celtic Tiger into the bubble and all the excesses it involved and meekly agreed to socialising the Banks & developers debts.

Labour have for decades championed the causes of electoral reform, universal healthcare, reinvention of the public services and making Ireland internationally competitive, Ruari Quinn is the only man with the necessary experience to guide the economy back to growth as a MoF.

Fuhrer

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Labour have for decades championed the causes of electoral reform, universal healthcare, reinvention of the public services and making Ireland internationally competitive, Ruari Quinn is the only man with the necessary experience to guide the economy back to growth as a MoF.

That is one out there political platform to be running on.

He wants to make things work better and make us more competitive?


What a radical!

invinciblePRSTV

Fuhrer wrote: »

That is one out there political platform to be running on.

He wants to make things work better and make us more competitive?


What a radical!

I know, Labour aren't even a party of the Left, left of centre would be more apt. Which means people calling 'Labor' a socialist party all the more hilarious!.

Fuhrer

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

I know, Labour aren't even a party of the Left, left of centre would be more apt. Which means people calling 'Labor' a socialist party all the more hilarious!.

I think shameless populist would be more apt.

invinciblePRSTV

Fuhrer wrote: »

I think shameless populist would be more apt.

Well if thats what the boys in the FF press room say then it must be true. :pac:

Fuhrer

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Well if thats what the boys in the FF press room say then it must be true. :pac:

Right...


Thinking that Labours "We're going to make things better!" political platform is such trite rubbish must mean FF's press room something something something

invinciblePRSTV

Fuhrer wrote: »

Right...


Thinking that Labours "We're going to make things better!" political platform is such trite rubbish must mean FF's press room something something something

I assume you have researched Labour policy documents to arrive at such a conclusion then?

Fuhrer

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

I assume you have researched Labour policy documents to arrive at such a conclusion then?

I assume you've researched my political views and background to arrive at your conclusion about me being "FF PRESS ROOM BLAH BLAH BLAH" then?

invinciblePRSTV

Fuhrer wrote: »

I assume you've researched my political views and background to arrive at your conclusion about me being "FF PRESS ROOM BLAH BLAH BLAH" then?

Answer my original question please. You talk in a negative manner about Labours political platform, what are you basing this on?

Sleepy

Why would you give Labor your vote ?

To hasten the arrival of the IMF?

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

OP why do you even ask such a question? We're dealing with 13% unemployment, huge cuts to public services and the wealthy Irish elite are untouched, of course people are going to vote left.

Lol at at the usual suspects predicting disaster if Labour took power, the parties of the right championed the development of Celtic Tiger into the bubble and all the excesses it involved and meekly agreed to socialising the Banks & developers debts.

Labour have for decades championed the causes of electoral reform, universal healthcare, reinvention of the public services and making Ireland internationally competitive, Ruari Quinn is the only man with the necessary experience to guide the economy back to growth as a MoF.

I must reiterate . . I would be a "floating voter" if there is such a thing . . I am simply not a party person . .

I actually have no problem with most parties and their ideals, its the people in the parties that are my problem. .

I implore people to vote for a candidate that mirrors their core principles and to demand more accountability within our elected officials (make it known to them).

I have no problem with Labour other then their agenda appears to be more about getting populist rhetoric onto the airwaves and pleasing the majority of people that dont really give much thought to politics or how it affects us all, instead preferring to hear what they like to hear . . As somebody who feels passionately about our country and how its run, I feel so disillusioned with how people justify certain thinks done in politics because "thats the way it is done" . . Labour are simply looking for votes at my expense . . They get votes off ignorant people who dont ask tough questions of them because they are hearing whatever they like to hear . .

I couldn't tell you what labors plans are, simply because they dont commit to much publically.

I remember talking to a friend in the FF press office and I was giving out that FF treat us like idiots by not discussing important aspects of our economy (NAMA etc). . They told me that most people do not want to know about it . . they want to be told everything will be alright and that they wont have to pay much more for it. . Apparantly I am in the 5% minority that actually want to see everything . . I want to see how the government comes to a conclusion on something and what sort of SWAT (strengths, weaknesses , opportunities, threats) analysis has been done. But apparantly, most people dont want to know about it. . They just want things sorted. .

Labor offer them that answer , which scares me . . Funnily enough, I would be more labor orientated if I didn't believe that they were full of hot air and going to look after the self interested public service unions . . Some of the general statements from labor can be upsetting . . Not asking questions of our government and their motives for doing things is a major reason we are in this mess . . To let the new government into power without demanding more answers would be simply criminal (and we would deserve everything disastrous that may unfold).

I tell you what, if you can explain to me how labor would set themselves up , make those 3bil cuts, deal with croke park agreement/public servants and deal with the banks (if they were in tomorrow) and outline how this will benefit the country long term, I might just stop my anti-labor post. .

invinciblePRSTV

Drumpot wrote: »

I must reiterate . . I would be a "floating voter" if there is such a thing . . I am simply not a party person . .


....I remember talking to a friend in the FF press office.... ..

i'm finding it hard to reconcile these 2 statements.

*Edit* and for flip sake at least have the cop on to spell Labour correctly we are not in the USA!.

aDeener

I won't

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

i'm finding it hard to reconcile these 2 statements.

Why ? Do you not have friends in other parties ? Do you find it unbelievable that I have a friend who works in FF and just dont happen to be a party person ?

If I was Cowan himself, how does that make my concerns any less valid?

Either way, can you answer my questions or will you hide behind your insinuated conspiracy that I am in someway connected to FF?

invinciblePRSTV

Drumpot wrote: »

Why ? Do you not have friends in other parties ?

Do you feel it allows you to ignore the core debate ?. .

If I was Cowan himself, how does that make my concerns any less valid?

Either way, can you answer my questions or will you hide behind your insinuated conspiracy that I am in someway connected to FF?

Well you are a 'floating voter' who happens to know people in the FF press office. Would i be correct in saying you are in a fact a FF voter? or at the very least a former FF voter?.

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Well you are a 'floating voter' who happens to know people in the FF press office. Would i be correct in saying you are in a fact a FF voter? or at the very least a former FF voter?.

I voted for Independent (cant remember who, was my first vote), FG (x2 - Micky joe cosgrave, Gavin doyle) and FF (Thomas Byrne) in the past . . I would class that a floating voter . .

Either way, how does that make my concerns any less valid even if I had voted FF all the time ?

invinciblePRSTV

Drumpot wrote: »

I voted for Independent (cant remember who, was my first vote), FG (x2 - Micky joe cosgrave, Gavin doyle) and FF (Thomas Byrne) in the past . . I would class that a floating voter . .

Either way, how does that make my concerns any less valid even if I had voted FF all the time ?

Because i'm pretty sure you have no intention of voting Labour and are just looking to attack them.

Exhibit A:

Drumpot wrote: »

....I imagine you are one of the "new labor" followers . . This country will collapse into anarchy if Labor become the biggest party and take control of our economic policy. The ONLY people who will be happy will be the public servants who were happy to be Bought by FF in the good times (and are now looking to dissasociate themselves as much from them, it wasnt just the builders whom FF were courting in the good times!) . .

You sound like the kind of guy who misses the PDs, maybe get onto McDowell and try and get him to stand again?. At the very least your politics seem centre right. I doubt Labour would ever appeal to your type.

doodd

Fuhrer wrote: »

Labour

Why would you bother.

ROS123

Drumpot wrote: »

I remember talking to a friend in the FF press office and I was giving out that FF treat us like idiots by not discussing important aspects of our economy (NAMA etc). . They told me that most people do not want to know about it . . they want to be told everything will be alright and that they wont have to pay much more for it. . Apparantly I am in the 5% minority that actually want to see everything . . I want to see how the government comes to a conclusion on something and what sort of SWAT (strengths, weaknesses , opportunities, threats) analysis has been done. But apparantly, most people dont want to know about it. . They just want things sorted. . .

And you believe that, why ? because the friend in the FF spin dept told you so. Do you really think that only 5% of people want to know what FF is conspiring to spending 2 or 3 generations worth of tax on. I am not an 'insider' I don't have access to 'inside' information, but I would think a much, much, larger percentage of people want to know up front, what FF intend doing with my future, my childrens and my grandchildrens future!!!

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Because i'm pretty sure you have no intention of voting Labour and are just looking to attack them.

Exhibit A:



You sound like the kind of guy who misses the PDs, maybe get onto McDowell and try and get him to stand again?. At the very least your politics seem centre right. I doubt Labour would ever appeal to your type.

Hold on hold on . .

This is just annoying now . . I am not what your conspiracy suggests . BUT .

Lets assume I am . . (I am only doing this to move the debate along, so I can actually get an answer from you (you must be a Gilemore follower with this kind of attitude).

Lets say I am this Labor hater . . Well show me up big cahoona . . Show all the world how wrong I am . . Or are you just going to keep calling me a labor basher as if that actually makes any differance or validity to my points ?

Again, can you enlighten us on how labor will deal with the banks, the public service, the croke park agreement and the 3bil cutbacks ?. .

invinciblePRSTV

Well i'm neither a LP member or supporter but i'll take a bash at answering your questions but only if you tell us why you persist in spelling Labour incorrectly.

Drumpot

ROS123 wrote: »

And you believe that, why ? because the friend in the FF spin dept told you so. Do you really think that only 5% of people want to know what FF is conspiring to spending 2 or 3 generations worth of tax on. I am not an 'insider' I don't have access to 'inside' information, but I would think a much, much, larger percentage of people want to know up front, what FF intend doing with my future, my childrens and my grandchildrens future!!!

Yes, I believe it because somebody in FF press office told me. . :rolleyes: They were refferring to the usual strategy in anything PR related. . Try to appease the masses . . Its not brain surgery.

I believe it because the poles back up this suggestion . . When people really want something they can get it (pensioners, public servants) . . Yet no protests about the banking enquiry. If there was enough interest we would of been told everything, but most people just want it sorted.

The way the electorate votes supports this . .People constantly voting in corrupt or idiotic TDs (dont need to mention names).

Support of party's usually favours those offering the most to the individual (how else have FF been in power so long?). . How else do we find ourselves with such a lame government that everybody is resigned to having to choose one of ?

Our electorate dont appear to have the vision to see beyond local politics or the good auld skin who tells us what we want to hear. Sure FG followers of Kenny think that its more important to have a leader who done the party well, then what the people of the country want.

Nobody has yet to tell us what Gilemore is actually offering (but I am supposedly an Labor basher for ASKING!) . .

I tell you what, you tell me anicdotaly even, how you believe a majority of people have shown that they really want to know everything that has happened (or are they more focused on just getting FF out of office!). .

randombar

A good read here lads some informative stuff.

My understanding (very basic stuff) on the whole thing is:

People don't like FF because
- Tainted with corruption
- Got us into the mess
- We're paying more taxes, have less money and less jobs
- Bertie

So they're making a change.

I do think people aren't actually looking into the other parties thoroughly enough and just think "I don't like FF any more, I don't like Enda Kenny so I'll just go for the next one."

Something similar to lisbon, "I don't know what this is about so I'll just vote no"

I'm of the opinion where if you dont know what or who you are voting for then null your vote or do more research.

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Well i'm neither a LP member or supporter but i'll take a bash at answering your questions but only if you tell us why you persist in spelling Labour incorrectly.

To save time .

Ok . .

-NAMA
-Banks In general
-Public Service
-Croke Park Agreement,
-3 Bil Cuts

Write away, not what you think, what you actually know for a fact what labour will do and how it will benefit us long term . .

invinciblePRSTV

Drumpot wrote: »

To save time .

Ok . .

Not a good enough answer i'm afraid. Even when it has been consistently pointed out to you you still choose to spell it incorrectly so i'm curious as to your motives. Are you from North America? do you refer to FG as fine gayle or fina fail to save time? Whats your true reasoning?

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Not a good enough answer i'm afraid. Even when it has been consistently pointed out to you you still choose to spell it incorrectly so i'm curious as to your motives. Are you from North America? do you refer to FG as fine gayle or fina fail to save time? Whats your true reasoning?

I had my suspicions and don't mind getting a yellow card for this but you sir are a troll . .

Don't understand why its ok to be one , but not say it when its blatantly obvious. .

There are other forums where you can go and have a laugh at political debates, this is not one of them . .

ROS123

Drumpot wrote: »

I tell you what, you tell me anicdotaly even, how you believe a majority of people have shown that they really want to know everything that has happened (or are they more focused on just getting FF out of office!). .

I didn't say a majority, but certainly more than 5%. Without any anecdotal evidence,I would begin by taking anything said by FF press dept with a pinch of salt. I and most of my friends have certainly become more exercised by the situation, we find ourselves, unemployed, wage cuts, negative equity, children emigrating, of course we want to know what's going on...

I do agree with a some of the other things you are saying...

invinciblePRSTV

Drumpot wrote: »

I had my suspicions and don't mind getting a yellow card for this but you sir are a troll . .

Don't understand why its ok to be one , but not say it when its blatantly obvious. .

There are other forums where you can go and have a laugh at political debates, this is not one of them . .

With the greatest respect chum clearly you are the one displaying troll like behaviour here. You have your opinions on Labour this is clear from both your posts in this thread and elsewhere, your disdain for them permeates all your posts, you're not looking to learn about Labour Policy but just looking to attack them. I've called you on your nonsense try and wriggle your way out of it if you like.

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

With the greatest respect chum clearly you are the one displaying troll like behaviour here. You have your opinions on Labour this is clear from both your posts in this thread and elsewhere, your disdain for them permeates all your posts, you're not looking to learn about Labour Policy but just looking to attack them. I've called you on your nonsense try and wriggle your way out of it if you like.

My post was . . Why would you vote for labour ?

You think this is trolling, but arguing on the spelling of the name of the party isnt ?

I am very clear about what I want. .I want answers to my questions which you appear to be either unable or unwilling to provide . . Put either of those facts together and you are either just trolling or trying to disrupt a debate on the party . .

I have a problem with politics in this country . . People who ask questions of one party are assumed to be followers of their rivals. .

I want the spotlight to be on all parties . . FF have been rightly getting both barrells for over 2 years now. .FG have a good amount of scrutiny on their own leadership, but Labour have been having a free ride of it all the time and have gone top of the polls as a result . .

People in this country only choose to educate themselves when they are in dire straights (unemployed etc), but we need to get more involved in politics even when times are not so bad . .

Many people have opted to hold onto their anger which can be good in times of change or to push change but can cause them to make incorrect choices. On a human level, few people make rational correct decisions when they are angry or ill informed. . The spike in labours support can only be explained by the disillusionment with FG and the anger towards FF.

I have asked people to tell me why labour are getting so much support and people cannot actually provide credible definitive reasons and that scares the hell out of me . .

I have friends and family who say "will never vote FF" which I find irrational and just knee jerk counter productive anger . . FF are not the problem, its certain members of the party . . And the people who vote in politicians of all partys are us, the electorate, so we have to accept responsibility for the lack of options on show. . (just look through my posts and you will see that I blame the electorate, not labour, for our problems).

I am picking on labour, because there needs to be clinical, proper debate on their policies that publically look whim-sickle. . FG and FF have been bashed and talked to death (I have been involved in many heated debates, please feel free to look through all my posts). I am genuinley looking for somebody to show how they are a credible alternative . . I cannot understand what Gilemore has done to gain popularity, other then bash FF more convincingly then FG and say alot of stuff that appeals to most of us . .

Drumpot

ROS123 wrote: »

I didn't say a majority, but certainly more than 5%. Without any anecdotal evidence,I would begin by taking anything said by FF press dept with a pinch of salt. I and most of my friends have certainly become more exercised by the situation, we find ourselves, unemployed, wage cuts, negative equity, children emigrating, of course we want to know what's going on...

I do agree with a some of the other things you are saying...

To be honest, because they are the FF press office does not mean their strategies should be dismissed . . If anything, they are better at spinning then anybody and should know what pushes the buttons of the Irish people (hey they have been fooling us all for years right?)

I believe that we (myself included) have let ourselves down by not asking enough of our politicians. . At the end of the day, most party's have principles we can all believe in to a degree, but its the people in office that decide which ones are more important. .

Just look at all parties core principles and you would say to yourself "god, I would vote for them in a heartbeat", but then you see the actual "players" on show and think, but sure that guy is useless . .

People should get less involved in who the party is and focus on the candidates and getting them principle orientated. . I have no doubt that there are very good people in politics who are discouraged from doing the right thing in many cases because their electorate would make them pay for it (because as an electorate we have short term memories, we want long term strategies with no short term pain). .

Why else are all government strategies usually looking to keep most expenses at the start of their terms and give our "bonus's" of some sort near election time ? Because thats what "we" want and respond to. .

invinciblePRSTV

Drumpot wrote: »

My post was . . Why would you vote for labour ?

You think this is trolling, but arguing on the spelling of the name of the party isnt ?

I am very clear about what I want. .I want answers to my questions which you appear to be either unable or unwilling to provide . . Put either of those facts together and you are either just trolling or trying to disrupt a debate on the party . .

I have a problem with politics in this country . . People who ask questions of one party are assumed to be followers of their rivals. .

I want the spotlight to be on all parties . . FF have been rightly getting both barrells for over 2 years now. .FG have a good amount of scrutiny on their own leadership, but Labour have been having a free ride of it all the time and have gone top of the polls as a result . .

People in this country only choose to educate themselves when they are in dire straights (unemployed etc), but we need to get more involved in politics even when times are not so bad . .

Many people have opted to hold onto their anger which can be good in times of change or to push change but can cause them to make incorrect choices. On a human level, few people make rational correct decisions when they are angry or ill informed. . The spike in labours support can only be explained by the disillusionment with FG and the anger towards FF.

I have asked people to tell me why labour are getting so much support and people cannot actually provide credible definitive reasons and that scares the hell out of me . .

I have friends and family who say "will never vote FF" which I find irrational and just knee jerk counter productive anger . . FF are not the party, its certain members of the party . . And the people who vote in politicians of all partys are us, the electorate, so we have to accept responsibility for the lack of options on show. . (just look through my posts and you will see that I blame the electorate, not labour, for our problems).

I am picking on labour, because there needs to be clinical, proper debate on their policies that publically look whim-sickle. . I am genuinley looking for somebody to show how they are a credible alternative . . I cannot understand what Gilemore has done to gain popularity, other then bash FF more convincingly then FG and say alot of stuff that appeals to most of us . .

Chum i read your posts. Your politics are centre right this is clear, you claimed you were a floating voter when this is incorrect you only vote for parties of the right which share your outlook that the Gov is and was doing the right thing. You have it in your head that somehow the LP are in thrall to the Unions and this is responsible for the countrys woes (a rich irony considering you are an admitted FF voter - a party which has a practically symbiotic relationship with the Unions) but still find time to admire Lenihan & Bruton.

In short i doubt there is anything any person could say to you to convince you to vote for a party of the left, and i think if you are honest enough you'll admit this yourself.

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Chum i read your posts. Your politics are centre right this is clear, you claimed you were a floating voter when this is incorrect you only vote for parties of the right which share your outlook that the Gov is and was doing the right thing. You have it in your head that somehow the LP are in thrall to the Unions and this is responsible for the countrys woes (a rich irony considering you are an admitted FF voter - a party which has a practically symbiotic relationship with the Unions) but still find time to admire Lenihan & Bruton.

In short i doubt there is anything any person could say to you to convince you to vote for a party of the left, and i think if you are honest enough you'll admit this yourself.

With all due respect, if you read my posts and took it that I am far right, anti Labour then you are either not understanding my point or you are just looking to annoy me and spoil this thread . .

How can you know "I cant be convinced"?

You haven't even tried to put anything forward or made any references to labours policies, yet you say I wont listen to reason ? :rolleyes:

Whether you think I am far right or agenda orientated or not makes no difference, if the questions I ask cannot be answered properly . .

if you want to continue pointing out my spelling errors or arguing over my own political preference (that you have way off), please open a thread somewhere else and we can discuss these issues and troll the hell out of each other (see who can annoy who the most). .

However, if you would like to actually be a part of the debate, I invite your views, opinions and alternative suggestions to my queries regarding labour . .

scr123

I would vote Labour if they gave me a hint as to how they are going to cure a few problems like:

Unemployment

Budget deficit

National debt

Banks crisis

Crime

Health service funding

Education funding

Social welfare funding

Poverty problem

Future pension problem

Stop recessions

Continuous economic growth

Reserves of 100b to meet unexpected problems in the future

Have a few more things on my mind but if they as I said HINT at how they are going achieve the above they will have a 1/2/3 for their candidates in the coming GE

Looking forward to the experts enlightening me on the genius of Labour

invinciblePRSTV

Drumpot wrote: »

How can you know "I cant be convinced"?

You haven't even tried to put anything forward or made any references to labours policies, yet you say I wont listen to reason ? :rolleyes:

Why should i argue and defend LP policy seeing as i have no affiliation to the party? you have a browser, use it FFS!.

Drumpot wrote: »

Whether you think I am far right or agenda orientated or not makes no difference, if the questions I ask cannot be answered properly . .

I didn't say your politics were far right i said your politics are centre right, A scan of your posting history suggests this to me and thats all i have to go on.

Drumpot wrote: »

if you want to continue pointing out my spelling errors or arguing over my own political preference (that you have way off), please open a thread somewhere else and we can discuss these issues and troll the hell out of each other (see who can annoy who the most). .

I quizzed you on your motivations for deliberatly mis-spelling of Labour when it was continously pointed out to you by other posters. If you can't even spell the parties name correctly, or even just use an appropriate abbreviation, then why should people take what your pronouncements about 'gilemore' & 'Labor' seriously?.

Drumpot wrote: »

However, if you would like to actually be a part of the debate, I invite your views, opinions and alternative suggestions to my queries regarding labour . .

Again i suggest you use your browser. The LP homepage has their policy documents for all to see and if you want more specific details then i suggest you click onto oireachtas.ie and check all submissions made by the LP to the various policy committees, it's what i do when i want info rather then whinging on boards that i can't find the info i'm looking for.

This isn't rocket science lad ffs.

Drumpot

Given all the support for labour, is there anybody out there who can speak up for them with credible points ?

Referring us to their website is like Brian Cowan referring to all the great things he has done for the country and not debating the things he got wrong . .

Questions have been asked and answers are not being provided . . Please all labour supporters enlighten us cynics . .

invinciblePRSTV

Drumpot wrote: »

Referring us to their website is like Brian Cowan referring to all the great things he has done for the country and not debating the things he got wrong

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

You wanted LP policy i pointed you in the right direction, I'm sure you have the critical faculties to work out the rest for yourself, if not then well that reflects on your own failings more then anything tbh.

Drumpot

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

Right back at you buddy . . The concept of "open debate" obviously escapes you . . Not only that, if somebody questions the policies of a party that needs to be objectively analysed, you question their motives as if it makes their questions any less important?. Is that not an ignorant assumption ?

You come to a discussion webforum and wont debate the topic in question . . Is that not an ignorant way to get an ill conceived point across?

It is you who rejects open debate in favour of just spoiling the topic . . If anybody is showing ignorance it is not the one asking for questions to be answered, its the one dancing around them . .

You have offered nothing that promotes Labour in this discussion (its taken you 10 or so posts just to refer us to their website!) . .

If anything, you have done a disservice to them by looking like you are just avoiding proper debate in favour of mud slinging and making broad assumptions based on poorly put together opinions. .

This is not the Dail so we dont have to be PC, we can ask tough questions . Given the support for labour, I would of thought there would be some of them on boards.ie who could rebuff the claims made against them . .

What I dont understand is why would a "non troll" want to get involved in a topic they dont actually want to discuss, which is exactly what you have consistently done . . Riddle me that . .

Coillte_Bhoy

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Well you are a 'floating voter' who happens to know people in the FF press office. Would i be correct in saying you are in a fact a FF voter? or at the very least a former FF voter?.

You are making ridiculous assumptions based on the fact that he has a mate in the FF press office. FFS have you never had a mate who was involved with a political party other than the one you support?? Actually probably not since i doubt you have too many mates if you spout such sh1t.