Sinn Fein

xxVickyxx

Ok Im not a political sort of person. And at the minute I dont support any party. But Im just curious about Sinn Fein.

(Bare in mind, Im not politically minded.) But why doesnt Sinn Fein ever get in..? I have to say the one time I ever needed help (a few years back) Sinn Fein were the only ones that were interested.

In Dundalk, Arthur Morgan campaigns tirelessly for the hospital to stay open. And I know of a few organisations, not strictly Sinn Fein but closely tied, that are doing good things for the society.

And then the Lisbon treaty. From what I can gather they were the only party who campaigned against it. And during the first vote the "no's" won it.

I have 2 theories on why they arent popular.

Firstly, and the most obvious.. their ties/connections with the IRA.

Secondly, from what I can gather Sinn Fein seem to represent for the under classes, and dont have much time for wealthy.. Whereas other parties would be the other way around.

Anyway I really hope this doesnt turn sour. Im honestly at a loss as to why they are so unpopular. They seem like a decent party and I just dont get why they are so unpopular.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Liam Byrne

As with other parties, there are some of their ideals and policies that I don't want to see implemented, but the main issue I have is that their ties to terrorism and crime are far too recent, and they still seem to have time for those involved while objecting to others who have similar links and mindsets.

charlemont

sinn fein are a great bunch, at least they dont lie or cover up their past, fianna fails links to child sex abuse over the decades are far worse than anything ira or sinn fein done..........:cool:

Coillte_Bhoy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As with other parties, there are some of their ideals and policies that I don't want to see implemented, but the main issue I have is that their ties to terrorism and crime are far too recent, and they still seem to have time for those involved while objecting to others who have similar links and mindsets.

Who?

Fratton Fred

charlemont wrote: »

sinn fein are a great bunch, at least they dont lie or cover up their past, fianna fails links to child sex abuse over the decades are far worse than anything ira or sinn fein done..........:cool:

I guess that depends which you consider to be the worse crime, killing children or buggering them.

Liam Byrne

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Who?

Anyone that they view as being on "the other side".

Can you imagine the uproar that there would be if a DUP MP collected murderers from jail ?

Deep Easterly

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Bit of a cheap shot considering that the two mainstream parties have their roots firmly based in what you term 'terrorism'.

Sinn Fein are about primarily about the working class, so naturually, they are up against the political interests of the middle class and the parties that represent them. So it is no surprise that they are regularly dismissed as nationalistic, socialistic blah blah.

Pride Fighter

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Sinn Fein are not an ultra-socialist party. Their economic policies are all over the place, have in the past advocated a 50% corporation tax rate that would kill the economy stone dead. On the other hand in Northern Ireland they are presiding over savage cuts in spending. I disagree with their policies. They are not clear, coherent and are a bit all over the place.

Lockstep

xxVickyxx wrote: »

Ok Im not a political sort of person. And at the minute I dont support any party. But Im just curious about Sinn Fein.

(Bare in mind, Im not politically minded.) But why doesnt Sinn Fein ever get in..? I have to say the one time I ever needed help (a few years back) Sinn Fein were the only ones that were interested.

In Dundalk, Arthur Morgan campaigns tirelessly for the hospital to stay open. And I know of a few organisations, not strictly Sinn Fein but closely tied, that are doing good things for the society.

And then the Lisbon treaty. From what I can gather they were the only party who campaigned against it. And during the first vote the "no's" won it.

I have 2 theories on why they arent popular.

Firstly, and the most obvious.. their ties/connections with the IRA.

Secondly, from what I can gather Sinn Fein seem to represent for the under classes, and dont have much time for wealthy.. Whereas other parties would be the other way around.

Anyway I really hope this doesnt turn sour. Im honestly at a loss as to why they are so unpopular. They seem like a decent party and I just dont get why they are so unpopular.

To try and give a balanced appraisal, I would say it is largely to do with Sinn Féins ties with the IRA. SF tend to get reasonable 1st preference votes but lose out on transfers. They usually do well in poorer areas (for their community work) and in the border areas (where nationalism is more of an issue) but they are often malaligned by mainstream voters as they are percieved as lacking knowledge on how the Republic of Ireland actually works.

I'll use my dad as an example, he grew up in a small town where many of his friends ended up in the IRA and got imprisoned. He's vehemently anti-SF as his views are coloured largely by his experienced links with them and the IRA.

Dr. Baltar

I come from a working class area and I agree that Sinn Féin are very supportive of the working class. For example, when a feud between travellers broke out they were the only ones who would go to the travellers offering to mediate ect.

Although I too disagree with their links to the PIRA, I cannot use that as a reason to not vote for them as Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael were both linked to the IRA in the past.

However, I will never give them anything higher than a number 3 or a number 4 on my vote simply because I believe that the Free Market is a good thing and that Sinn Féin would destroy that.

rightwingdub

Sinn Fein are a marxist party who have very politically correct views on immigration, Sinn Fein mainly appeal to working class voters but the middle classes absolutely hate Sinn Fein in the Republic, I've no problem with them but their economic policies are complete rubbish, even in this recession they have made very little inroads in terms of votes.

Nodin

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hysteria. Great word that.

Wolfe Tone

Most people don't support SF because of their past ties to the PIRA. But thats changing. And I would disagree with SF only appealing to the "lower class" many middle class people I know are active SF supporters.

They need to get their economic policies in order though.

Fratton Fred

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Most people don't support SF because of their past ties to the PIRA. But thats changing. And I would disagree with SF only appealing to the "lower class" many middle class people I know are active SF supporters.

They need to get their economic policies in order though.

Their policies are all over the shop and seem to concentrate on persuading people that a united Ireland could work better than the current two halves.

Personally I think their leadership is holding them back. Too many of them have blood on their hands and making a huge fuss of Gerry McCabe's murderers was a massive PR cock up.

They have some pretty decent politicians, but they need a visible break from the past and all the time it just seems to be one step forward, two back.

Liam Byrne

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Most people don't support SF because of their past ties to the PIRA. But thats changing.

It's not changing quickly enough, and every so often SF "do an FG" on it by shooting themselves in the foot to make it seem like they're not "past" at all.

I'll be crucified by apologists if I raise the McCabe case again, but it's the most recent major one, and if SF candidates refuse to condemn the murder of a Garda and proceed to pick up the perpetrators from jail, how can they even remotely be considered to have the good of the country and its officers and people at heart ?

So maybe "that's changing" (thankfully), but there are constant reminders and until those are consigned to a decent amount of history, people like myself wouldn't even consider voting SF.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I don't think the IRA link should be an issue anymore and I don't think it is. The IRA have surrendered/decommissioned whatever you want to call it.

I think its more they don't appeal to the middle class. Who you have to appeal to if you want to be elected into power. Sinn Fein know this and Mary-Lou McDonald types* will probably be the ones to bring them more success.


*Operative word being types. She kind of of pissed on her chips by not showing up at the European parliament. Maternity leave is not an excuse when you're a politician.

doodd

Ya just to those FF and FG supporters who loath Sinn Fein due to their PIRA links, how much time must elapse before before this is no longer an issue?
Had the British administration pulled out of Northern Ireland (as they were considering) in the early 70s would we be looking on those IRA members as heros like Michael Collins and Co?

The main reason I don't give them my first preference vote is economic policies, I usually give them the 2nd preference though. A significant Sinn Fein presence in opposition would certainly spice the Dáil up a bit

Liam Byrne

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I don't think the IRA link should be an issue anymore and I don't think it is.

I can only speak for myself, but it is.

dlofnep

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Their economic policies are all over the place, have in the past advocated a 50% corporation tax rate that would kill the economy stone dead. .

This is not the first time you have made this statement. I asked you before, and I'll ask you again to provide a source for a 50% corporation tax. Hopefully this time, you won't ignore my request.

Sinn Féin proposed and still proposes reduced corp tax in the north. In the south, it's current policy is to maintain the status quo of 12.5% corp tax. There was a proposal of 17.5% prior to the recession, to aid with the expanding infrastructure - but that's a far cry from this 50% you continue to tell us about.

It's funny that you mention economic policies being all over the place - It was Sinn Féin which warned of the property bubble, and lack of control years before the recession. if the Government had of regulated as suggested by Sinn Féin - we would not be in the mess that we are in now. That is a fact.

So aside from this corporate tax myth that you continue to bring up - what exactly is it you oppose with regards to Sinn Féin's economic policies.

dlofnep

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but it is.

But yet, if we were to ever bring up the role of the British state in the attack on Irish civilians - you'd be quick to tell us to stop living in the past. You can't have your cake and eat it. Sinn Féin is engaged within the peace process - without them, it would not have been possible.

Joey the lips

The usual boards suspects never fail to disappoint. I would imagine op by the end of this thread you will be confused as ever.

My own feelings on any party is look who is working locally. At the end of the day no matter what all politics is local...

Otherwise michael lowry would be gone.

guinnessdrinker

I think one of the appealing reasons people vote for SF is their work in the community. They are for the working person in the same way FF/FG seem to be for the richer people in society as well as the banks, developers etc.

Also the fact that SF's elected representatives would appear to be more in touch with reality, i.e. with the working person as they don't recieve their MP/TD/MLP etc wages as other politicians do.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

But yet, if we were to ever bring up the role of the British state in the attack on Irish civilians - you'd be quick to tell us to stop living in the past. You can't have your cake and eat it. Sinn Féin is engaged within the peace process - without them, it would not have been possible.

It's not a case of having my cake and eating it.

While not dismissing any atrocities committed by either side, out of respect for the dead, comparing something 30 years ago to something that happened last year is not valid.

Also, we're talking about an officer of the state that SF supposedly want to "represent"; not just an "individual person".

If the British state murdered an innocent Irish civilian* or an Irish officer doing his job, I would object, yes. And if a British MP collected the murderer from jail and shook his hand, etc, I would object - as would SF.

But we're expected to accept the collection of thugs from jail, and the non-condemnation of their crime, because it's their "side".

And therein lies the double-standard that makes them completely unacceptable.

That is called "having your cake and eating it".

So don't accuse me of it. I'll object to both. That's consistent and fair.


*Criminals & terrorists obviously excluded

Tipp Man

Sinn Fein?? hypocritical communists

Deep Easterly

Deep Easterly wrote: »

Bit of a cheap shot considering that the two mainstream parties have their roots firmly based in what you term 'terrorism'.

Sinn Fein are about primarily about the working class, so naturually, they are up against the political interests of the middle class and the parties that represent them. So it is no surprise that they are regularly dismissed as nationalistic, socialistic blah blah.

Bombing shopping centers and massacring bus loads of workers wasnt the main old IRA tactic. The old IRA actually fought soldier to soldier.

ei.sdraob

Joey the lips wrote: »

At the end of the day no matter what all politics is local....

its this sort of parish politics and thinking that got the country into such a mess

IrishTonyO

dlofnep wrote: »

Sinn Féin proposed and still proposes reduced corp tax in the north. In the south, it's current policy is to maintain the status quo of 12.5% corp tax.

Afraid you are wrong there, they currently have no policy on corporation tax

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ibec-hits-out-as-sinn-fein-admits-it-has-no-set-corporation-tax-policy-1388145.html

guinnessdrinker

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Afraid you are wrong there, they currently have no policy on corporation tax

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ibec-hits-out-as-sinn-fein-admits-it-has-no-set-corporation-tax-policy-1388145.html

I think you're wrong Tony, that article is from 2008. I believe SF's current corporation tax policy is to harmonise the rate North and South.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Deleted User wrote: »

Bombing shopping centers and massacring bus loads of workers wasnt the main old IRA tactic. The old IRA actually fought soldier to soldier.

Oh yeah, no guerilla warfare or civilian casulties with the old IRA at all.

dlofnep

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Afraid you are wrong there, they currently have no policy on corporation tax

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ibec-hits-out-as-sinn-fein-admits-it-has-no-set-corporation-tax-policy-1388145.html

Ladies and gentlemen. This is why you should research prior to posting a 2 year old article on boards.ie.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/18505

In this manifesto Sinn Féin is committed to;

• the harmonization of corporation tax at 12.5% across the island

.

Myth dispelled.

yoshytoshy

xxVickyxx wrote: »

In Dundalk, Arthur Morgan campaigns tirelessly for the hospital to stay open. And I know of a few organisations, not strictly Sinn Fein but closely tied, that are doing good things for the society.


Secondly, from what I can gather Sinn Fein seem to represent for the under classes, and dont have much time for wealthy.. Whereas other parties would be the other way around.

Anyway I really hope this doesnt turn sour. Im honestly at a loss as to why they are so unpopular. They seem like a decent party and I just dont get why they are so unpopular.

I've the same experience with the local sinn fein people here aswell ,they are always on the ground helping people out. They seem to have a far more social approach to politics.

But ,they also have some pretty lousy ties to the yobs you see at protests. This is the downside to their social approach ,the wrong type of people get involved.
I don't think that will ever change.

Orizio

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its this sort of parish politics and thinking that got the country into such a mess

Do explain - how is the recession to be blamed on 'parish politics'.

dlofnep

Liam Byrne wrote: »

While not dismissing any atrocities committed by either side, out of respect for the dead, comparing something 30 years ago to something that happened last year is not valid.

Up until 2 days ago, Britain disputed that Irish civilians were innocent on Bloody Sunday. So what exactly is it you are referring to?

You sure are selective with your timeline. Just admit it, and be over with it.

In 50 years from now, you'll still be harping on about the same old tripe. Sinn Féin have progressed on, and are one of the cornerstones of the peace process.

Orizio

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Oh yeah, no guerilla warfare or civilian casulties with the old IRA at all.

Do you actually know what the term in bold means? You seem to have equated it with terrorism.

Regarding voting for Sinn Fein, hell would freeze over before I would vote for mass murderers like Adams and McGuinness.

dlofnep

Orizio wrote: »

Regarding voting for Sinn Fein, hell would freeze over before I would vote for mass murderers like Adams and McGuinness.

I suppose you have evidence to support these claims? It's this sort of hyperbole that reduces any chance of a reasonable discussion ever taking place in a Sinn Féin related thread.

IrishTonyO

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I think you're wrong Tony, that article is from 2008. I believe SF's current corporation tax policy is to harmonise the rate North and South.

Sorry my search results dated that 12/06/10, I neglected to check the date on the article Anyone know why Google would date this as 12/06/10 in the search results when you click the link it brings you to the article which is 2008? Will have to pay more attention to my search results in future.
Even though have been searching to find their current policy and there doesn't seem to be one on the Sinn Fein website? Maybe I just can't find it but even general google searches doesn't really bring back anything concrete

dlofnep

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Even though have been searching to find their current policy and there doesn't seem to be one on the Sinn Fein website?

It is, I linked you to it.

Care you apologise Tony?

Orizio

dlofnep wrote: »

I suppose you have evidence to support these claims? It's this sort of hyperbole that reduces any chance of a reasonable discussion ever taking place in a Sinn Féin related thread.

McGuinness and Adams were leaders of the PIRA, and presided over their terrorist tactics of mass murder for political means for 2-3 decades. Seems straightforward.

lugha

Undoubtedly Sinn Fein’s historical links with PIRA are hurting them and I think this is compounded by their retention of the ancient guard of Adams / McGuinness etc. at the helm. But I would suggest the biggest impediment is that Ireland doesn’t do socialism. We opt for centralist or centre right politics. There is a plethora of left wing parties but there is no broad support for them. No doubt such parties may get a bit of a bounce at the next GE given the times we are in, but they won’t sustain it.

dlofnep

Orizio wrote: »

McGuinness and Adams were leaders of the PIRA, and presided over their terrorist tactics of mass murder for political means for 2-3 decades. Seems straightforward.

So no, you have no evidence to support your claims.

danbohan

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

so where did fianna fail fine gael come from ?, nothing wrong with a party with strong patriotic core governing the country , it would make a welcome change . its the ultra socialist thing that puts most people off , previously sinn fein support was rural /small farmer based their is very little of that their now, why do people in rep of ireland have this hypocritical attitude to terrorism links and government yet expect power sharing in northern Ireland .if it was not for sinn feins belief that what i earned built up for myself should be shared with the poor unfortunate idle i might be tempted to vote for them.

Fratton Fred

Deflect, dodge and deny.

It's almost comical how these things go around.

IrishTonyO

dlofnep wrote: »

Ladies and gentlemen. This is why you should research prior to posting a 2 year old article on boards.ie.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/18505



Myth dispelled.

That's their English manifesto prior to Westminister elections? Do they not have an economic policy document for the south?

dlofnep

IrishTonyO wrote: »

That's their English manifesto prior to Westminister elections? Do they not have an economic policy document for the south?

Do you understand what "the harmonization of corporation tax at 12.5% across the island" means?

You stated

Afraid you are wrong there, they currently have no policy on corporation tax

You were wrong.

IrishTonyO

dlofnep wrote: »

Do you understand what "the harmonization of corporation tax at 12.5% across the island" means?

You stated



You were wrong.

What I do understand is that document is a manifesto for elections in a different country, not for the Republic of Ireland where I live. Can you please give me a link their economic policy document for the Republic if they have one, and if they don't have one, then I think that speaks volumes as to why people do not vote for them here.
So do Sinn Fein have a complete economic policy document for the Republic of Ireland Yes or No?

FlutterinBantam

dlofnep wrote: »

So no, you have no evidence to support your claims.

Seems straightforward enough for me

Wolfe Tone

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Seems straightforward enough for me

Show me proof that Adams was a leader of the PIRA.

dlofnep

IrishTonyO wrote: »

What I do understand is that document is a manifesto for elections in a different country, not for the Republic of Ireland where I live. Can you please give me a link their economic policy document for the Republic if they have one, and if they don't have one, then I think that speaks volumes as to why people do not vote for them here.
So do Sinn Fein have a complete economic policy document for the Republic of Ireland Yes or No?

Firstly, let's be very clear. We were not initially discussing Sinn Féin's entire economic policy for the south. I stated that Sinn Féin's current corporate tax policy was to retain the status quo of 12.5%

You responded stating that I was wrong, citing a 2 year old article from the Independant. I corrected you by showing you that they do indeed have a corp tax, and cited their website which listed a all-island policy for corp tax harmonisation.

Now, firstly - I would appreciate it if you manned up and accepted that you were wrong.

Onward.

Sinn Féin's economic policies, and budget submissions are available here: http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Seems straightforward enough for me

So did the Widgery report. What's your point?

FlutterinBantam

I never mentioned the Widgery Report.