Euro Aggro

Tonyandthewhale

Is it just me or does the average driver make far fewer allowances for the racing cyclist in full lycra get-up than the average joe soap in jeans and t-shirt on a hyrbid?
For instance, yesterday evening I went for a spin along the galway-carraroe road, dressed in jersey and cycling shorts and doing 30 odd kph on a racing bike. It was a nice spin but I found myself being endlessly cut off by drivers and was beeped at twice to get out of the way (once by a donkey of a taxi-driver who over-took on a bend and then slowed down once ahead of me so I almost had to pass-him again, completely unnecessary).
I've cycled this road numerous times and it seems that when I'm just tootling along the mountain bike or the touring bike and dressed like a civilian so to speak I get far less grief from drivers.

Would I be right in saying many drivers have much less patience for these "tour de france wannabies" as they seem to see it or is it all just in my head?

AstraMonti

Did you by any chance had livestrong gear on it? I am tempted sometimes when driving :pac:

Jokes aside, I haven't noticed any difference at the behavior depending what I 'm wearing.

DirkVoodoo

I think it is entirely driver and mood dependent. I've had near misses and jerks hurling abuse, doesn't seem to matter. I know some drivers see red at the sight of Lycra, but that tends to manifest itself in a rant and not passing closer (for me).

I got passed pretty close today, followed the guy a bit down the road and saw him go park in the AIB in cornelscourt. Waited for him to get out and as he was passing I just said "watch when you're overtaking, would ya", he said "when?" I said "you passed me pretty close back there", he said "I didn't see you" and so I left.

Some people just don't really see bikes at all, ever, or even know how to treat them as road users. Hopefully this will improve, getting rid of cycle lanes is one move toward it. The more bikes on the road the more drivers will HAVE to learn to deal with driving around them properly. ,U`

Chips Lovell

I've always found the opposite was the case. The faster you're going, the less likely drivers are to get impatient and do something stupid.

Tonyandthewhale

el tonto wrote: »

I've always found the opposite was the case. The faster you're going, the less likely drivers are to get impatient and do something stupid.

In my experience for some drivers it doesn't matter how fast a cyclist is going, the view seems to be that a bike can't really be going that fast so it is imperative that it be over-taken no matter what the reality of the situation.
As was evidence by the taxi driver who dangerously over-took me yesterday and then proceeded at a slower speed than I had been going.

Chips Lovell

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

In my experience for some drivers it doesn't matter how fast a cyclist is going, the view seems to be that a bike can't really be going that fast so it is imperative that it be over-taken no matter what the reality of the situation.
As was evidence by the taxi driver who dangerously over-took me yesterday and then proceeded at a slower speed than I had been going.

I agree, there are some drivers who'll do it regardless of how fast you're moving and I'd meet a few on every spin. Just that it's more likely to happen if I was moving slowly.

godihatedehills

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Hopefully this will improve, getting rid of cycle lanes is one move toward it. The more bikes on the road the more drivers will HAVE to learn to deal with driving around them properly.

I don't get the big anti-cycle lane thing. I mean I know they are in terrible condition in parts but I find if there is a lane there, even if it's just a bit of red paint and a white line then drivers do give you more room.

I like roads with cycle lanes, not the ones on the footpath mind you now, I mean the ones on the road.

DirkVoodoo

godihatedehills wrote: »

I don't get the big anti-cycle lane thing. I mean I know they are in terrible condition in parts but I find if there is a lane there, even if it's just a bit of red paint and a white line then drivers do give you more room.

I like roads with cycle lanes, not the ones on the footpath mind you now, I mean the ones on the road.

I like the on road ones too. I can give you many examples of ones I consider dangerous:



Routed off road, the cycle lane goes behind some trees, out of total view of drivers, before sending you back out in front of the entrance to some apartments. A few metres up the road you are sent back out onto the road again. There are always people walking in this one, but I'm just waiting for the day a car pulls up alongside me and cuts left in front of me. In fairness they would be doing well to spot me and it's hard to check around you on the bike given the surface and twisty nature (think "technical").

If it were on road the whole way, like it is in Donnybrook (which I like) it would be fine. Although people going into Donnybrook Fair park in it half the time.

Moflojo

I guess all you can really do is just make sure that your own behaviour on the bike doesn't put you in jeopardy or cause drivers to act wrecklessly around you. After that, it's a bit of a lottery.

It is also important not to fall into the frame of mind that drivers are specifically targeting you. They don't know you from Adam, so try not to take it personally when someone cuts you off or passes too closely. (I understand that's easier said than done)

Personally, I don't like the attitude of chasing after a guy and angrily confronting him at the next light or wherever he stops. More often than not drivers don't realise when they have jeopardised a cyclist so when some lycra-clad, irate mofo pulls up next to them at a light shouting and gesturing angrily the natural response is just to shout back, tell them to f**k off and probably not improve their driving attitude towards cyclists. It's a vicious cycle, if you'll pardon the pun...

Tau

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Is it just me or does the average driver make far fewer allowances for the racing cyclist in full lycra get-up than the average joe soap in jeans and t-shirt on a hyrbid?
For instance, yesterday evening I went for a spin along the galway-carraroe road, dressed in jersey and cycling shorts and doing 30 odd kph on a racing bike. It was a nice spin but I found myself being endlessly cut off by drivers and was beeped at twice to get out of the way (once by a donkey of a taxi-driver who over-took on a bend and then slowed down once ahead of me so I almost had to pass-him again, completely unnecessary).
I've cycled this road numerous times and it seems that when I'm just tootling along the mountain bike or the touring bike and dressed like a civilian so to speak I get far less grief from drivers.

Would I be right in saying many drivers have much less patience for these "tour de france wannabies" as they seem to see it or is it all just in my head?

Some work has been done on this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17064655

Also talked about here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm


"To test another theory, Dr Walker donned a long wig to see whether there was any difference in passing distance when drivers thought they were overtaking what appeared to be a female cyclist.

While wearing the wig, drivers gave him an average of 14cm more space when passing. "

CramCycle

Science = WIN

Jawgap

Need to get one of these....

'68 Fastback

Big BMW jeep pulled in on top of me on Kevin st, non-mandatory cycle lane, while i was ringing my bell with fury. I gave him the ol' "ITS A CYCLE LANE FU€KO!!" and sped off. Then as I'm waiting to cross at the lights at Stephens Green and Merrion Row he passes by leaning out the window calling me a [EMAIL="w@nker"]w@nker[/EMAIL] and shaking his [EMAIL="w@nking"]w@nking[/EMAIL] spanner at me. So followed after him and when he stopped in the traffic I wallopped his bonnet and flew off. It made a great noise!

morninwood

'68 wrote:

Big BMW jeep pulled in on top of me on Kevin st, non-mandatory cycle lane, while i was ringing my bell with fury. I gave him the ol' "ITS A CYCLE LANE FU€KO!!" and sped off. Then as I'm waiting to cross at the lights at Stephens Green and Merrion Row he passes by leaning out the window calling me a w@nker and shaking his w@nking spanner at me. So followed after him and when he stopped in the traffic I wallopped his bonnet and flew off. It made a great noise!

queue Tim Allen

morninwood

morninwood wrote: »

queue Tim Allen

Or the artist formerly known as TimAllen...... Fencer.

'68 Fastback

Oh sh!t...what have I done?!

SleepDoc

I think it really just depends on the driver rather than the lycra. Was cycling up through Blackhall place into Stoneybatter on Monday when a bus whizzed by, within about 6 inches then stopped almost immediately to stop. Deep breaths and continued on. Coming up to the junction of the NCR he did the same, again nearly clipping me and pulling in almost immediately. Had enough. Stopped the bike and walked over to him.

Gist of conversation was that he was a bus and could'nt give me room. Next time I go that way I'm taking the entire lane.

SerialComplaint

I do think that it is important to speak to drivers. We can only hope to train them in, one at a time. The reactions I get range from humble apologies to threats of violence adn everything in between.

dave.obrien

There are always a couple of classic responses to the ol' "could you give me a bit more room when overtaking please?" thing. My personal favourite was an older woman who told me she was sorry, but that she had just come out of surgery that morning, and was still feeling the effects of the anaesthetic...

Nice.

tomasrojo

godihatedehills wrote: »

I don't get the big anti-cycle lane thing. I mean I know they are in terrible condition in parts but I find if there is a lane there, even if it's just a bit of red paint and a white line then drivers do give you more room.

I like roads with cycle lanes, not the ones on the footpath mind you now, I mean the ones on the road.

I have to say that I find that cars pass closer when there's a cycle lane there.

And I'm not the only one:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/report/cycle-lanes.pdf

Conclusion
The effect of the cycle lane studied in this report is to reduce the amount of roadspace
available to cyclists, and therefore makes conditions significantly worse for
cyclists. Superficially, this may seem counter-intuitive, but there are a number of
possible explanations.
1. Drivers understandably tend to assume that the cycle lane represents an
adequate amount of space for the cyclist, so position their vehicles according
to the lane markings rather than relative to the position of the cyclist.
2. Drivers see less need to take special care when overtaking if the vehicle they
are overtaking is in a separate lane.
3. The presence of the cycle lane on the opposite side of the road forces
oncoming vehicles nearer to the centre line. This reduces the space available
for overtaking vehicles to move to the right.

Hence the recommendation in most European countries that cycle lanes should be 2m wide.

tomasrojo

I agree about the tendency of drivers to overtake cyclists without thinking. It's most unfortunate. The tendency to do it on blind bends can be hair-raising. It's almost as if they think that you're static.

goldencleric

Today was by far my worst experience of drivers giving almost no room. Overtaken on a bend by some absolute fool who shouldn't be allowed own the BMW he was driving and also overtaken in the bus lane by a medium sized lorry!!!!!! I actually could not believe what had happened, did the driver not realise that if I had moved 6 inches to the right then I would be stone cold dead!

I just think that driver's aren't fully aware (or choose to ignore) that they are risking another person's life when they overtake in the same lane!

SerialComplaint

Bad karma to the lady in the navy Audi A3 who decided to overtake me on Merton Rd in Ranalagh this morning, as I was about 10 metres away from the line of traffic backed up to the junction. So she just managed to get level with me as I came to the last car, and she was left sitting on the wrong side of the road.

If I was a bit more devious, I'd have stayed there, leaving her exposed - but I moved on. Why would anyone try and overtake to get to a line of traffic 1s quicker?

Raam

Cycling through Portmarnock, a lady driver pulls out right in front of me only to stop in traffic shortly after. Her window was open so I told her that she pulled out right in front of me.

Her response? "Excuse me, but I saw you".

Eh, thanks?

glic71rods46t0

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I do think that it is important to speak to drivers. We can only hope to train them in, one at a time. The reactions I get range from humble apologies to threats of violence adn everything in between.

Very foolish behaviour. If you confront someone on the road, you are the aggressor and, in the event that the driver decides to re-educate you on your serial whining and crowing - you'll only have yourself to blame. You could get done for anything from breach of the peace to an offence under the non fatal offences against the person act.
Or perhaps end up getting sectioned for displaying chronic paranoia:pac::pac::pac:

glic71rods46t0

Raam wrote: »

Cycling through Portmarnock, a lady driver pulls out right in front of me only to stop in traffic shortly after. Her window was open so I told her that she pulled out right in front of me.

Her response? "Excuse me, but I saw you".

Eh, thanks?

LOL - what do you want, a row?

glic71rods46t0

'68 wrote:

Oh sh!t...what have I done?!

opened pandoras box?:D:D

glic71rods46t0

'68 wrote:

Big BMW jeep pulled in on top of me on Kevin st, non-mandatory cycle lane, while i was ringing my bell with fury. I gave him the ol' "ITS A CYCLE LANE FU€KO!!" and sped off. Then as I'm waiting to cross at the lights at Stephens Green and Merrion Row he passes by leaning out the window calling me a w@nker and shaking his w@nking spanner at me. So followed after him and when he stopped in the traffic I wallopped his bonnet and flew off. It made a great noise!

Nice! - been in Mountjoy much?

gbee

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Is it just me or does the average driver make far fewer allowances for the racing cyclist in full lycra get-up than the average joe soap in jeans and t-shirt on a hyrbid?

Can only speak for myself and 37 years driving various vehicles and with trailers sometimes.

Yes I do treat full dress cyclists as fellow professionals so I expect them to behave by the book ~ and to be fair, a good proportion that I've come across do that too.

I expect them to know and expect what I am going to do and am confident that they will take the appropriate action and be equally aware of me. A boy or girl with a school bag will get a wide berth as they are extremely likely to do anything for no reason at all.

So yes to your question for me.

BTW this also applies to fellow professional drivers Taxi's Busses' Truck's commercial Vans ~ no offence to women but if a woman is driving one of these I generally back way off too [and yes I've seen some professional women drive as good if not better but as a generality, they don't]

estariol

I had a strange experience cyclingtowards santry, just before the skylon hotel large 4x4 pulls out of a sideroad to end up diagonally acroos the left lane from white line to curb and fully blocking the cycle lane missing me by inches and forcing me to brake hard.
Traffic started moving again almost instantly, I pulled aside banged on his window. He stopped rolled his window down and let fly with a torrent of lycra bashing insults (was wearing white assos bibs). I shouted back about the continous line cycle lane that he should never have crossed.....he continued to rant at me, until the blue light of an unmarked garda car flashed and the Garda got out stated that the driver was an idiot to pull into the cycle lane that he was on his way to an accident involving a car and cyclist, and he owed me an apology! The driver tried to argue with him, fair play to the Garda he said they had the whole thing onn camera if the driver wanted to take that attitude. So he backed down and apologised.

Kinda depressing to think the only reason he changwed his tune and acknowledged his error was caught he was caught on video.

SerialComplaint

estariol wrote: »

I had a strange experience cyclingtowards santry, just before the skylon hotel large 4x4 pulls out of a sideroad to end up diagonally acroos the left lane from white line to curb and fully blocking the cycle lane missing me by inches and forcing me to brake hard.
Traffic started moving again almost instantly, I pulled aside banged on his window. He stopped rolled his window down and let fly with a torrent of lycra bashing insults (was wearing white assos bibs). I shouted back about the continous line cycle lane that he should never have crossed.....he continued to rant at me, until the blue light of an unmarked garda car flashed and the Garda got out stated that the driver was an idiot to pull into the cycle lane that he was on his way to an accident involving a car and cyclist, and he owed me an apology! The driver tried to argue with him, fair play to the Garda he said they had the whole thing onn camera if the driver wanted to take that attitude. So he backed down and apologised.

Kinda depressing to think the only reason he changwed his tune and acknowledged his error was caught he was caught on video.

Excellent - What's even funnier is that the Garda probably didn't have video at all, but knew the guy would back down at the threat of video. I've used that approach successfully myself a few times.

tomasrojo

Raam wrote: »

Cycling through Portmarnock, a lady driver pulls out right in front of me only to stop in traffic shortly after. Her window was open so I told her that she pulled out right in front of me.

Her response? "Excuse me, but I saw you".

Eh, thanks?

Something similar happened to me. Driver leaving his kid off to school throws a door open in front of me. "Careful!" I shouted. "I saw you!" he shouted back. So I stopped and asked him if he was saying that he deliberately threw a car door open in front of another road user. With a keen sense of drama, he witheld that key piece of information.

Beasty

gbee wrote: »

I expect them to know and expect what I am going to do and am confident that they will take the appropriate action and be equally aware of me. A boy or girl with a school bag will get a wide berth as they are extremely likely to do anything for no reason at all.

Why not give all cyclists, say, 1.5m clearance?

glic71rods46t0

Beasty wrote: »

Why not give all cyclists, say, 1.5m clearance?

If its available and the cyclist has had the courtesy of keeping in to the left of the lane, then I agree, 1.5m seems reasonable.
On the other hand, if a cyclist decides to be discourteous and not keep in to the left then I assume that he doesnt want the 1.5m clearance and treat him accordingly. I judge it well though - 1cm, side mirror to elbow - most seem to realise that their out too far and adapt their road position. Its just a pity that I can only educate one cyclist at a time:D

Beasty

3gb1dq4s9npfam wrote: »

If its available and the cyclist has had the courtesy of keeping in to the left of the lane, then I agree, 1.5m seems reasonable.
On the other hand, if a cyclist decides to be discourteous and not keep in to the left then I assume that he doesnt want the 1.5m clearance and treat him accordingly. I judge it well though - 1cm, side mirror to elbow - most seem to realise that their out too far and adapt their road position. Its just a pity that I can only educate one cyclist at a time:D

1.5m is the recommended minimum:



Unfortunately the rest of your comments are (as usual) uninformed and typical of your aggressive attitude to cyclists Timothy

Chips Lovell

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

Unfortunately the rest of your comments are (as usual) uninformed and typical of your aggressive attitude to cyclists Timothy

You do know he's just taking the piss? He came on here once as TimAllen and once as Fencer with fictitious stories about how a cyclist ran into the back of his car/ knocked him over when he was walking. I seriously doubt he does any of the stuff he says he does, he might be a kid for all we know. He just says this stuff to wind people up and I gotta say he seems to be quite good at it, most adept troll I've seen in along time.

'68 Fastback

I never knew Tim Allen's Fencer's wife was into fishing.

'68

'68 wrote:

I never knew Tim Allen's Fencer's wife was into fishing.

BOOM!

Beasty

Deleted User wrote: »

You do know he's just taking the piss? He came on here once as TimAllen and once as Fencer with fictitious stories about how a cyclist ran into the back of his car/ knocked him over when he was walking. I seriously doubt he does any of the stuff he says he does, he might be a kid for all we know. He just says this stuff to wind people up and I gotta say he seems to be quite good at it, most adept troll I've seen in along time.

Yes - I am fully aware of Timothy's background - just thought I'd draw a post out of him that could be countered in a clear and simple manner (I know, you could probably say that about all his posts)

SleepDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

You do know he's just taking the piss? He came on here once as TimAllen and once as Fencer with fictitious stories about how a cyclist ran into the back of his car/ knocked him over when he was walking. I seriously doubt he does any of the stuff he says he does, he might be a kid for all we know. He just says this stuff to wind people up and I gotta say he seems to be quite good at it, most adept troll I've seen in along time.

I'm pretty sure he's an adult male at least in a chronological and genetic sense. Before he was Tim Allen he was Joe Malone. Posted a couple of years ago and very similar in tone and content.

CramCycle

Hip hip hooray for the ignore option.

Now back on topic.

I personally find a little more clearance while in full lycra, be this due to the fact that I am not very physically attractive or because as a lycra clad cyclist I give the impression of someone who knows the rules of the road (obviously not true but it may give th+e appearance of someone more focused/reliable) and will gladly reiterate them to a dangerous driver (be they in a car, van, bus or even a fellow cyclist).

The more I think about it the more likely its cause people don't find me attractive

cdaly_

Beasty wrote: »

gbee wrote: »

Can only speak for myself and 37 years driving various vehicles and with trailers sometimes.

Yes I do treat full dress cyclists as fellow professionals so I expect them to behave by the book ~ and to be fair, a good proportion that I've come across do that too.

I expect them to know and expect what I am going to do and am confident that they will take the appropriate action and be equally aware of me. A boy or girl with a school bag will get a wide berth as they are extremely likely to do anything for no reason at all.

Why not give all cyclists, say, 1.5m clearance?

I presume, as a professional driver, that gbee does give the appropriate minimum clearance but that (s)he gives the apparent novices extra space...

For myself, I tend to ride along the line where a cycle lane is marked. This gives me wiggle room for those close passers.

I also find that I seem to get the room I need when in 'full dress' Mind you, I also ride confidently and use what road I need as appropriate.