New Zealand vs Wales Sat 8:35am ; Australia vs England Sat 11am; Both Sky Sports 1

corny

Really good tempo to what England are doing. First time in a long time we can say that about them.

thomond2006

England playing some rugby today, Foden is looking threatening.

Class finish by Ashton, I think he will be an everpresent in this England side for a long time.

Bugnug

Come on Australia

ongarite

thought that was flat pass not forward.

LeeroyJones

The sting seems to have gone out of the match coming up to half-time.

Having said that, I imagine it will return for a cracking second half.

thomond2006

I think Aus can do them in the second half.

LeeroyJones

Superb Rugby Australia

18(soon to be 20)-15 Australia

Kiwi_knock

That was a dreadful kick

sock puppet

Judgement Day wrote: »

What is it with rugby union in Australia - the stadium appears half empty?

Still 50,000 there though.

There has to be questions over Deans' selections. He played Polota-Nau when he'd been warned that playing in these tests could put him out of the Tri-Nations. Genia doesn't look fully fit now too.

ongarite

England are going to throw the game away with all the penalties they are conceding.

What a miss by Giteau!!

Spore

England hold on for a win 21-20

ongarite

Great result for England. Well deserved after great performance.

sock puppet

England are delighted. Well done to them.

Judgement Day

Just back from 2nd half in the pub - great day for England - could have had them at 10/3 with Paddy Power but I was just too chicken.Thought Foden/Youngs and Cueto had great games. The Aussies would need to go back to the drawing board with that scrum (?) if they hope to get anywhere in the Tri-nations.:D

wixfjord

Judgement Day wrote: »

Just back from 2nd half in the pub - great day for England - could have had them at 10/3 with Paddy Power but I was just too chicken.Thought Foden/Youngs and Cueto had great games. The Aussies would need to go back to the drawing board with that scrum (?) if they hope to get anywhere in the Tri-nations.:D

Still an advocate of Wilko ahead of Flood?! Youngs is pure class one of the best scrummies in the NH, and will be a big player for England in the coming years imo. Hape played well, and Ashton and Foden were very good.

PhatPiggins

Judgement Day wrote: »

Just back from 2nd half in the pub - great day for England - could have had them at 10/3 with Paddy Power but I was just too chicken.Thought Foden/Youngs and Cueto had great games. The Aussies would need to go back to the drawing board with that scrum (?) if they hope to get anywhere in the Tri-nations.:D

Australia have two of the best, if not the best, props to return and two better scrumaging hookers in Moore and Polota all injured. The backs as brilliant as they can be are missing a bit of physicality. They really need a Mortlock type player to get them the hard yards when under pressure.

JD who was that old blonde guy who fluffed the sitter in front of the Australian posts at the end?

:pac:

toomevara

Can anyone give me a rational reason why Johnson gave Youngs the shepherds crook with 20 to go? Mental decision and he was very lucky not to pay heavily for it. And why is Delon Armitage in the squad ahead of Tait? The guy's lost all form this season. Good to see Hape prosper despite all the naysayers. A quality player.

Judgement Day

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Australia have two of the best, if not the best, props to return and two better scrumaging hookers in Moore and Polota all injured. The backs as brilliant as they can be are missing a bit of physicality. They really need a Mortlock type player to get them the hard yards when under pressure.

JD who was that old blonde guy who fluffed the sitter in front of the Australian posts at the end?

:pac:

Careful now - there's is a God you know - as proved by today's result!

thomond2006

Pressure is on us now to beat the Wallabies next week.

sock puppet

PhatPiggins wrote: »

They really need a Mortlock type player to get them the hard yards when under pressure.

Time to shine. Seriously though Ashley-Cooper will make some difference.

Genia should probably be rested next week (pretty please Deans) and Burgess played. Mumm should be dropped too.

Kiwi_knock

Anyone going to watch SA v Italy. Mallet in his interview said that he expected Italy to be thrashed and that there would be plenty of tries.

Sherifu

Great result for England.

Stev_o

toomevara wrote: »

Can anyone give me a rational reason why Johnson gave Youngs the shepherds crook with 20 to go? Mental decision and he was very lucky not to pay heavily for it. And why is Delon Armitage in the squad ahead of Tait? The guy's lost all form this season. Good to see Hape prosper despite all the naysayers. A quality player.

Because Johnson is a first grade idiot when it comes to coach and managing hasn't got a clue, Care shouldn't of even been in the 22! As i said many moons ago Youngs and Simpson will be battling out for the 9 jersey. Though knowing England Youngs will be completely sh*t within in 5 more coaching sessions :mad:

outwest

toomevara wrote: »

Can anyone give me a rational reason why Johnson gave Youngs the shepherds crook with 20 to go? Mental decision and he was very lucky not to pay heavily for it. And why is Delon Armitage in the squad ahead of Tait? The guy's lost all form this season. Good to see Hape prosper despite all the naysayers. A quality player.

johnson wont drop players, he stays with thw same 32 man squad, so many players are better then whats there now

PhatPiggins

sock puppet wrote: »

Time to shine. Seriously though Ashley-Cooper will make some difference.

Genia should probably be rested next week (pretty please Deans) and Burgess played. Mumm should be dropped too.

First bad game I've seen Genia play. AC is a very good player but they still haven'r settled on his best position. He could have been a great 13/11/15 but all this shifting him about has made him a bit of a utility player. Still young enough but would leave him at 13 permanently myself.

thomond2006

http://www.rugby365.com/all_news/sa/news/2489640.htm

South Africa managed a stuttering and disappointing 29-13 win over Italy in Witbank on Saturday, the first of two Tests.
Despite a commanding 22-3 first-half lead, which became 29-3 after 48 minutes, the Azzurri dominated the last half-hour and will take far more positives into next week's return fixture in East London.

The error-riddle Springbok performance have done more harm than good to some of the fringe player hoping to impress coach Peter de Villiers.

And Italian coach Nick Mallett will also have to shave his hair, after promising to do so if his team finished inside 20 points of the World Cup holders and Tri-Nations champions.

The game was meant to be a walk in the park for the Boks, but turned out to be a huge wake-up call.

I took just two scrums for the Springboks to settle one of the key the issues in the game.

After those early set pieces - in which Gurthro Steenkamp demolished the supposed powerhouse Martin Castrogiovanni - the South Africans took command. And Castrogiovanni left the field early in that first half, with popped ribs from those scrums dominated by his Bok rival, the Italians had lost the one advantage they were expected to have.

After that the game had a sense on inevitability.

Despite an early Mirco Bergamasco penalty, the Boks raced into a 22-3 half-time lead - with tries by Bryan Habana (18th minute), Francois Louw (31st minute) and Morné Steyn (38th minute).

The diverse manner i which the tries were scored - Habana from a swift Bok counter, Louw after a solid maul and Steyn throwing a brilliant dummy - showed just how dangerous the Boks can be.

Although South Africa scored first after the break, a well-worked try by Zane Kirchner, the Boks were not nearly as clinical as they were in the first half.

And to make matters worse, centre Butch James was yellow carded for a very silly high tackle.

With James in the sin bin, Italian captain Sergio Parisse scored his team's first try - after scrumhalf Tito Tebaldi sold a huge dummy. It was clear the Boks had taken their foot off the gas and their concentration levels were not what it should have been.

Bergamasco added a penalty with about 10 minutes to go, as the South Africans allowed the visitors far too much leeway.
The rash of changes made - which saw James move to flyhalf, Ruan

Pienaar at scrumhalf and Jean de Villiers at inside centre - certainly did not help the Boks to settle down into any sort of rhythm.

The scorers:

For South Africa:
Tries: Habana, Louw, Steyn, Kirchner
Cons: Steyn 3
Pen: Steyn

For Italy:
Try: Parisse
Con: Bergamasco
Pens: Bergamasco 2
Yellow card: Butch James (South Africa, 53 - foul play, high tackle)

Teams

South Africa: 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 Gio Aplon, 13 Jean de Villiers, 12 Butch James, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Ricky Januarie, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Dewald Potgieter, 6 François Louw, 5 Victor Matfield (captain), 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 1 Gurthrö Steenkamp.
Replacements: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Ryan Kankowski, 20 Ruan Pienaar, 21 Juan de Jongh, 22 Bjorn Basson.

Italy: 15 Luke McLean, 14 Kaine Robertson, 13 Andrea Masi, 12 Matteo Pratichetti, 11 Mirco Bergamasco, 10 Craig Gower, 9 Tito Tebaldi, 8 Sergio Parisse (captain), 7 Alessandro Zanni, 6 Simone Favaro, 5 Quintin Geldenhuys, 4 Valerio Bernabò, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini 1 Salvatore Perugini.
Replacements: 16 Fabio Ongaro, 17 Lorenzo Cittadini, 18 Marco Bortolami, 19 Paul Derbyshire, 20 Simon Picone, 21 Riccardo Bocchino, 22 Gonzalo Canale.

Referee: Andrew Small (England)
Assistant referees: Keith Brown (New Zealand), David Changleng (Scotland)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

Fair play to Italy, they did well to keep the score down and Nick Mallett has to shave his head.

subfreq

Sloppiest I have seen the Aussies defensively in close around rucks for a long time. England deserved winners.

I would be happy to see AAC and Hynes come into the team next week.

I prefer Diggers in the centre and I don't think Drew is positionally smart enough on defense or even in the tackle to be honest.

Really hurting us at the moment to have our two key ball carriers in Palu and Poloto Nau injured.

The Aussies don't tend to lose in Q'land and I expect a pretty ferocious backup to today's result but it will still be a close game against Ireland.

Digifriendly

On evidence of what we've seen so far NZ look to be the form team going into the Tri-Nations. Difficult to make a clear judgment on S. Africa. Next Saturday's Australia vs Ireland test should give us a clearer picture in comparing Australia and the All Blacks.

Judgement Day

I'm looking forward to July 10th when All Blacks face the 'mighty' Boks in Auckland for the first match of the Tri-Nations. I don't think think the Aussies will be able to deal with the AB power this year any more than they did last year. I'm hoping that last years match in Wellington (33-6 to the ABs) will be repeated again, and again...:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF3ZfJxd6oY

Judgement Day

I thought Ruggie had already put these You Tube highlights up from yesterday's Wales vs All Blacks game, but as I can't see it in the thread here it is again. Fantastic tries from Cory Jane, Dan Carter and Kahui leave the Welsh defence at six and sevens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiKxfeox9Vo

subfreq

Digby and Genia are both out of the game against Ireland.

Bad news on Diggers as he looks to be out for at least 4 months getting shoulder reconstruction.

Australia will really struggle in the tri-nations. They have to work so hard to get the standards up but then let them drop in the next game. It's been like that for a few seasons. I expect them to raise it again this weekend as they will be under fire but they won't notch up many wins against NZ or SA.

PhatPiggins

subfreq wrote: »

Digby and Genia are both out of the game against Ireland.

Bad news on Diggers as he looks to be out for at least 4 months getting shoulder reconstruction.

Australia will really struggle in the tri-nations. They have to work so hard to get the standards up but then let them drop in the next game. It's been like that for a few seasons. I expect them to raise it again this weekend as they will be under fire but they won't notch up many wins against NZ or SA.

Luke Burgees is like having a 5 point handicap. good news for us but I dont know how Deans persists with him.

thomond2006

Brian Moore: Martin Johnson must pick his England World Cup team and stick to it

Given England's away record against Australia, even the fact that the Wallabies were missing several first-choice players does not render England's win meaningless.

Indeed, depending on how the team proceeds from this point, it could mark a watershed for manager Martin Johnson.

The forgotten man, Jonny Wilkinson, usually reluctant to comment beyond the bland, succinctly identified the difficulty in assessing what this deserved victory means. He got straight to the heart of it when he said: "Anyone can get a one-off result. It's about stringing results together so that there is no such thing as a one-off."

We have been here before – last-gasp, backs-to-the-wall performances last autumn, against New Zealand, and against France in the last match of this year's Six Nations. This could prove another in a succession of false dawns, so don't run to the bookies and bet on a World Cup win next year.

What was significant for England was that a number of points were resolved.

England showed that they recognise that dominance in any set-piece is not an end in itself. They repeated their first Test debasement of the Wallaby front row and used it to gain territory and penalties. However, they also tested to breaking point the usually sound Australian defence by making them uncertain as to where the point of attack would be.

England's first try came from Ben Youngs exploiting a gap in the Aussie defence which was expecting the ball to be punched up by a forward in mid-field. The second, for Chris Ashton, came from an offload from Tom Palmer – something that was not achieved at all in the first Test.
Ben Foden, Ashton, Youngs, Dan Cole and Courtney Lawes definitively proved that they can compete at this level, irrespective of their immaturity in age or experience. You could argue that Johnson has stumbled across this fact rather than designing it, but that does not matter.

What is now required is consistency of selection, and nowhere more so in settling on a centre pairing, where there remains an evident problem. No combination has caused so much angst and been the subject of so many attempted solutions.

Since Johnson took charge, Riki Flutey, Jamie Noon, Mathew Tait, Mike Tindall, Ayoola Erinle, Dan Hipkiss, Toby Flood, Tom May, Shane Geraghty, Shontayne Hape and Wilkinson have all been considered suitable England centres.

The latest pairing, of Hape and Tindall, performed well in this Test, but not conspicuously better than some of their numerous predecessors. Hape's debut has been so long coming that Johnson has little evidence to work on and he has to be guided by backs coach Brian Smith and his fly-halves as to whether Hape has sufficient experience to give his No 10 the constant flow of information that is needed during a game.

Whatever combination starts this year's autumn internationals, barring injury, should be the pairing that Johnson expects to take in the World Cup.

In fact, you can say this about the rest of the team: time has run out. All six units within the team, even if they play every international until the start of the World Cup, will have only nine games to forge an understanding sufficient to meet the highest of challenges.

At long last a style of play was apparent on Saturday and its definition and development has to be seen in every game from this point forward. It is now de rigueur to aver that rugby today is a world apart from rugby played in the past, but it is not; the fundamentals are the same. If they have the wit, a number of lessons can be learnt by Johnson's players.

England's best moments, and there have been few in the last 12 months, have come when they have been brave enough to make considered counter-attacks with ball in hand. Has it now sunk in that it is perfectly possible, indeed it is essential, to play with variety? A kicking strategy, properly executed, is necessary in international rugby, but has to be employed purposefully and not as an excuse when players run out of ideas or confidence. Momentum cannot be gained when you do not have the ball.

Johnson and his coaches cannot expect universal applause and the record still weighs badly against them. This win will temporarily quieten the calls for revolution, but there is no room for regression. Johnson's team deserve praise for a spirited victory, but a chastened English rugby public does not yet believe; they want to be given reasons to renew the faith. Perhaps English rugby really can be born again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/7841909/Brian-Moore-Martin-Johnson-must-pick-his-England-World-Cup-team-and-stick-to-it.html