Is it illegal to be racist?

Morlar

Hazys wrote: »

How true that is...remind me again how many seats did the BNP win in England in the recent election?

Well Labour lost didn't they ? A big factor in that was their percieved record on immigration.

chopperbyrne

Hazys wrote: »

How true that is...remind me again how many seats did the BNP win in England in the recent election?

The BNPs entire campaign was based on racist propoganda though. Had they been openly racist and also had decent policies, then many would have voted for them.

Economics is generally more important to people than racism though, so they voted for proper political parties instead.

Hazys

Morlar wrote: »

I didn't ask for your spin on that to be honest. Nor did I mention any specific statistics.

I asked a question about the expression of facts/statistics that have at least the equal potential to be percieved as 'to incite hatred' as the expression of opinions (that are also percieved as being 'to incite hatred).

My overall point would be this is a very dangerous area to try and legislate or to jump on any bandwagons no matter how well intentioned. Particularly with regard to so-called holocaust denial legislation.

Sorry i wasnt trying to put words in your mouth, and i understand that what i said wasnt your motive of use for those statistics.

But in other threads, i have seen those statistics used in that manner, i was just trying to answer your question on how facts can be used in a racist manner.

pickarooney

Of course it's not illegal to hate someone. That's ridiculous!

Fo Real

Morlar wrote: »

What if it is a fact that is being expressed in a negative manner ? Such as the statistics around black on white rape in south africa, rape of infants in africa, or black crime statistics ? The expression of those statistics also has the potential to be percieved as to incite hatred/fear/disgust etc - should we outlaw that too ?

Very good question and the answer is of course not. Some members of ethnic minorities will take offence from anything. Merely stating a statistial fact like "1 in 5 black males in America will end up in jail at one point in his life" will lead to cries of racist.

Dermo

pickarooney wrote: »

Of course it's not illegal to hate someone. That's ridiculous!

I hate you for having an opinion like that

Hazys

chopperbyrne wrote: »

The BNPs entire campaign was based on racist propoganda though. Had they been openly racist and also had decent policies, then many would have voted for them.

Economics is generally more important to people than racism though, so they voted for proper political parties instead.

Really? BNP's racist undertones were the worst kept secret.

Trashbat

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Trashbat's analysis applies to pretty much all of these stories. Non-Christians couldn't care less if there are decorations or not.

By and Large yes. I also went to a multi-denomonational School in North London where at christmas time each class would pick a religion and do a play relating to that religions seasonal celebrations (Chanuka, Eid, Divali etc...). One year we had a muslim kid playing the role of Judas Maccabeus.

I think the handling of the situation in Ireland came from Lack of experience dealing with different cultures.

up for anything

grindelwald wrote: »

I don't exactly hate one group i would begrudging tolerate them, inside wishing they were somewhere else instead. I find their whole culture to be very dishonest and wish the stole in their county and from their people instead of mine. ( i know you cant paint everyone with the same brush so there might be one out there that is decent)

No prizes for guessing.......

Hazys

Morlar wrote: »

Well Labour lost didn't they ? A big factor in that was their percieved record on immigration.

Having views on decreased immigration is a lot different to being a racist.

cynder

up for anything wrote: »

No prizes for guessing.......

up for anything

grindelwald wrote: »

Bloody Americans!!! :rolleyes:

Hazys

Fo Real wrote: »

Very good question and the answer is of course not. Some members of ethnic minorities will take offence from anything. Merely stating a statistial fact like "1 in 5 black males in America will end up in jail at one point in his life" will lead to cries of racist.

What? 1 in 5 black males in America will end up in jail at one point in his life, is a very commonly known/used statistic in the US, who said it was racist?

The figure is very similar for all people who live in the poorer demographics areas around the world. Suprisingly enough, black people live in poorer demographics than white people in the US.

Trashbat

Fo Real wrote: »

Some members of ethnic minorities will take offence from anything. Merely stating a statistial fact like "1 in 5 black males in America will end up in jail at one point in his life" will lead to cries of racist.

Well you have to look at context here. Saying: "I dont want my daughter marrying a black man because 1 in 5 black males in America will end up in jail at one point in his life" Is using a fact out of context to facilitate what is essentially a racist belief.

The arguement here is that stating facts out of context can be used to make racism seem more legitimate.

So saying I don't trust 100% of black men, because 20% of them will go to jail at one point in their life, is racist because it is misusing a fact to promote racism. However i guarantee that if you ever challenge someone on this the first response would be "I'm only stating a fact".

Fratton Fred

Fo Real wrote: »

In Ocotber of 2007, Switzerland elected the Swiss People's Party, labelled a racist party by the liberal media over here, into government. Now Switzerland does not appear a "racist" society. My theory is that the silent majority hold similar beliefs to mine that one race is superior to all others but are afraid to speak out for fear of being labelled criminals. The truth only comes out at election time where voting is anonymous.

I also believe that most users of boards.ie agree with me but, again, are afraid to speak up. It's the loud-mouth liberal media who control what is and is not acceptable to think.

I believe that certains groups are superior to others.

I believe that racists are simple minded, self pitying, ignorant pricks and people who aren't racist are superior human beings to them.

Mikefitzs

So can I just call black people "nigers", members of the traveller movement "knackers" Limerick people stabbers, people outside Dublin "mucksavages" and so on and so on?

How is that freedom of speech, it's not an opinion, I'm calling someone something they are not nor do they wish to be called?

I do not intend to offend and upset with that comment.
I am making a point and asking a question so please don't attack me but do join in in the discussion.

I would rather live on an island all alone rather than allow that type of "freedom of speech"

Mike

Morlar

Hazys wrote: »

What? 1 in 5 black males in America will end up in jail at one point in his life, is a very commonly known/used statistic in the US, who said it was racist?

No one said it was racist.

What was said is that if the basis for outlawing an expression is that it has the potential to 'incite hatred' then that basis could be equally applied to the expression of fact (statistics) as that also has the potential to be percieved as likely to 'incite hatred/fear/disgust' etc

Pittens

I would rather live on an island all alone rather than allow that type of "freedom of speech"

So you would ban mucksavage? Utter madness...

It seems that the simplest ideas of freedom of speech - that people can say what they want unless it advocates violence, or perjures has been lost. Whole generations will now accept that certain groups can be criticised and certain groups cannot. In case it be insulting. Since what is insulting is subjective, free speech is dead ( or dead for some - attacks on germans, scottish people, Americans etc. will go on).

AnonoBoy

It's the loud-mouth liberal media who control what is and is not acceptable to think.

So racists are lesser people because they're too scared to stand up for themselves? Yeah, I'd agree with you there.

Fo Real wrote: »

I also believe that most users of boards.ie agree with me but, again, are afraid to speak up.

I propose a simple solution to prove you wrong: Anonymous Poll.

Mods can we have an anonymous poll to proof Fo Real is wrong? Thank you.

Pittens

percieved as likely to 'incite hatred/fear/disgust' etc

Yes, they are all subjective. The whole thing also depends on what the powers that be describe as an ethnic group. A Cornish group lost their case against the BBC because they were deemed to not be an ethnic group. In fact there was an agreement between Anglo Saxons and the Cornish back in the day. So it seems they once existed. The BBC is arguing that if you really get clobbered in history then you are not an ethnic group any longer.

Mikefitzs

Pittens wrote: »

So you would ban mucksavage? Utter madness...

It seems that the simplest ideas of freedom of speech - that people can say what they want unless it advocates violence, or perjures has been lost. Whole generations will now accept that certain groups can be criticised and certain groups cannot. In case it be insulting. Since what is insulting is subjective, free speech is dead ( or dead for some - attacks on germans, scottish people, Americans etc. will go on).

Who's attacking the Scottish?

AnonoBoy

Mikefitzs wrote: »

Who's attacking the Scottish?

Heart Disease mainly.

Fo Real

I believe white people are intellectually superior to blacks.

The fact is I'm doing nothing wrong by holding these beliefs. I know this infuriates some of you hippies but grow up and deal with it.

Morlar

Pittens wrote: »

The BBC is arguing that if you really get clobbered in history then you are not an ethnic group any longer.

Not surprised that the head of ch4 once called them a bunch of stalinists.

Hazys

Morlar wrote: »

No one said it was racist.

What was said is that if the basis for outlawing an expression is that it has the potential to 'incite hatred' then that basis could be equally applied to the expression of fact (statistics) as that also has the potential to be percieved as likely to 'incite hatred/fear/disgust' etc

I was replying directly to what the Fo Real said:

Fo Real wrote: »

Very good question and the answer is of course not. Some members of ethnic minorities will take offence from anything. Merely stating a statistial fact like "1 in 5 black males in America will end up in jail at one point in his life" will lead to cries of racist.

Will lead. That implies somebody is going to to find it racist.

cynder

Mikefitzs wrote: »

So can I just call black people "nigers", members of the traveller movement "knackers" Limerick people stabbers, people outside Dublin "mucksavages" and so on and so on?

How is that freedom of speech, it's not an opinion, I'm calling someone something they are not nor do they wish to be called?

I do not intend to offend and upset with that comment.
I am making a point and asking a question so please don't attack me but do join in in the discussion.

I would rather live on an island all alone rather than allow that type of "freedom of speech"

Mike

What about Bitch, Asshole, ****, Dickhead, Mother ****er im sure you get my point now! none of us want to be called that either.

Do i like being called White? - im not really white im sort of a pinky, browny, creamy colour. Even calling a black person black is frowned upon it's now coloured, sure are we not all coloured. I think that some immigrants are more racist than Irish nationals.

I do not think that i am superior or my race is superior, i have a problem with a thieving and dishonest culture. if a certain race was not a thieving and dishonest i would not have a problem with them.


I would rather live on a island on my own than mix with dishonest thieving people.

Pittens

Who's attacking the Scottish?

Frankie Boyle on Mock the Week, every week,when he was on. I am sure there are jokes about England north of the border. And Nazi jokes and Germans are common ( I am talking about the UK wher eI live)

All crap jokes, but should not be banned.

reprazant

Fo Real wrote: »

Ah ok, so once I don't advocate violence against other races, I'm doing nothing wrong. I have reasons for holding my beliefs which I won't discuss here as I don't want to drag the thread off topic.

Also please refrain from throwing around childish insults. I don't ridicule you for your beliefs. I'm a man of science and logic but I don't go around insulting Christians and Muslims for being religious.

You have reasons for disliking a whole race of people? Or people who happen to have different colour skin to you?

For a man of science and logic, you certainly seem very small-minded.

AnonoBoy

Fo Real wrote: »

I believe white people are intellectually superior to blacks.

The fact is I'm doing nothing wrong by holding these beliefs.

No you're not doing anything wrong but that doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.

Anyway - I see you seem to be quiet on the idea of an anonymous poll to prove your statement that the majority of boards.ie users share your beliefs.

So would you be open to the idea of an anonymous poll with the following statement?

"I believe white people are intellectually superior to black people"
True or False.

No comments, no discussion, just the poll.

Hazys

Fo Real wrote: »

I believe white people are intellectually superior to blacks.

The fact is I'm doing nothing wrong by holding these beliefs. I know this infuriates some of you hippies but grow up and deal with it.

Your entitled to believe what you want, nobody is stopping you. I'm also entitled to believe your views are idiotic and thank god they are a minority view.

As long as you dont incite hatred or discrimanate against somebody or act upon the need to cleanse the unworthy you are doing nothing illegal.

So we can end the thread now as the case is closed?

cynder

AnonoBoy wrote: »

"I believe white people are intellectually superior to black people"
True or False.

.

bush vs obama

obama any day........

irishejit

I'm not racist........I hate everyone

Miguel_Sanchez

irishejit wrote: »

I'm not racist........I hate everyone

Everyoneist?

Fratton Fred

Fo Real wrote: »

I believe white people are intellectually superior to blacks.

The fact is I'm doing nothing wrong by holding these beliefs. I know this infuriates some of you hippies but grow up and deal with it.

All white people are more intelligent than all black people, or only some?

are mixed race people kind of in the middle somewhere?

What about Asians, they are not white, are they intellectually inferior to us?

Is someone living in the Masai Mara and bringing up a family entirely by their own means, less intelligent than a bunch of knackers with six kids living off welfare?

I would like to understand these words of wisdom you share with us.

Fo Real

Hazys wrote: »

Your entitled to believe what you want, nobody is stopping you. I'm also entitled to believe your views are idiotic and thank god they are a minority view.

As long as you dont incite hatred or discrimanate against somebody or act upon the need to cleanse the unworthy you are doing nothing illegal.

So we can end the thread now as the case is closed?

Is this discussion making you feel uncomfortable? If you can't handle it, feel free to leave as Donkey Oaty did. Some people don't like it if the rest of the world doesn't think the exact same as them :rolleyes:

cleremy jarkson

Fratton Fred wrote: »

All white people are more intelligent than all black people, or only some?

are mixed race people kind of in the middle somewhere?

What about Asians, they are not white, are they intellectually inferior to us?

Is someone living in the Masai Mara and bringing up a family entirely by their own means, less intelligent than a bunch of knackers with six kids living off welfare?

I would like to understand these words of wisdom you share with us.

I'd say he means on average.

me-skywalker

This thread is a joke seriously!

WHy woudl you be bothered if its illegal or not! Its immoral and all racists are scum!

AnonoBoy

Fo Real wrote: »

Some people don't like it if the rest of the world doesn't think the exact same as them :rolleyes:

And some people dodge out of arguments by ignoring direct questions because they know that they'll be taken apart.

For a "man of logic" you seem to quite adverse to explaining yours and you don't seem to have the courage of your convictions.

Trashbat

cleremy jarkson wrote: »

I'd say he means on average.

Either that, or he's wildly generalizing based on bigoted views and a lack of understanding of humanity in general.


I reckon probably the latter.

Hazys

Fo Real wrote: »

Is this discussion making you feel uncomfortable? If you can't handle it, feel free to leave as Donkey Oaty did. Some people don't like it if the rest of the world doesn't think the exact same as them :rolleyes:

You asked a question, people answered, case closed.

Anything besides debating the question is off topic, so if you want to have a rant against black people, start another thread.


As for a racist sharing his views in this thread, it doesnt make me uncomfortable at all. So far it just confirms my views on racists; that they are a minority and their views hold no sound arguement.

ktc1

Fo Real wrote: »

I believe white people are intellectually superior to blacks.

The fact is I'm doing nothing wrong by holding these beliefs. I know this infuriates some of you hippies but grow up and deal with it.

Where is the science and logic supporting this belief, links would be appreciated.

As others have said you're not doing anything wrong by holding those beliefs, but in the opinion of many including myself you are wrong.

As you say you are governed by science and logic (as an aetheist so am I) please show us the proof of your assertion so that we may stand corrected.

Pittens

Either that, or he's wildly generalizing based on bigoted views and a lack of understanding of humanity in general.

It is sometimes ok to generalise. for instance: men are taller than women. Now saying that is not saying that all men are taller than all men, but on average they are.

This neither confirms nor denys Fo Real's beliefs on racial intelligence ( probably wrong), but it is a simple point which always bugs me.

Point 2, and this is a big one. This thread isn't about whether Fo Real is right, but whether he can speak his mind. Everything else is off topic. Racists are bad is off-topic. Racists are wrong is offtopoc. Racists are a minority is off-topic.

Any poll on anything else than the free speech issue would be offtopic.

Can we get back to the the free speech issue.

pickarooney

me-skywalker wrote: »

This thread is a joke seriously!

WHy woudl you be bothered if its illegal or not! Its immoral and all racists are scum!

Even black racists?

brummytom

I honestly don't see the problem with racism.


Why is being 'racist' such a horrid thing?

I have opinions on certain groups of people, based on my own experiences. I don't verbally or physically attack these people because of my opinions; so why shouldn't I be allowed to think what I want?

AnonoBoy

ktc1 wrote: »

Where is the science and logic supporting this belief, links would be appreciated.

Stormfront links are about all you'll be getting from Fo Real I'd say.

dvpower

ktc1 wrote: »

Where is the science and logic supporting this belief, links would be appreciated.

Asking a racist to supply links supporting his racism!
Isn't the internet polluted enough?

cynder

brummytom wrote: »

I have opinions on certain groups of people, based on my own experiences. I don't verbally or physically attack these people because of my opinions; so why shouldn't I be allowed to think what I want?

Agree!

AnonoBoy

brummytom wrote: »

I have opinions on certain groups of people, based on my own experiences. I don't verbally or physically attack these people because of my opinions; so why shouldn't I be allowed to think what I want?

That's the point of the thread brummy - you are allowed think what you like.

And having problems with certain people is fine, it's when you expand that to cover all of that person's race based the actions of a few is when it becomes racist.

I know a Jewish guy that I hate, I know a bunch of English assh*les, a black dude I went to school with is a moron. But I don't hate all Jewish people and I don't hate all English people and I don't think all black people are morons. You've got to judge people on their own actions, not the actions of others of their race.

reprazant

AnonoBoy wrote: »

That's the point of the thread brummy - you are allowed think what you like.

And having problems with certain people is fine, it's when you expand that to cover all of that person's race based the actions of a few is when it becomes racist.

I know a Jewish guy that I hate, I know a bunch of English assh*les, a black dude I went to school with is a moron. But I don't hate all Jewish people and I don't hate all English people and I don't think all black people are morons. You've got to judge people on their own actions, not the actions of others of their race.

Tbf, if you changed this thread from being about Blacks or Jewish people to Travellers, I would imagine that it would therefore be perfectly fine to be have prejudiced opinions about a group of people.

dvpower

brummytom wrote: »

I honestly don't see the problem with racism.


Why is being 'racist' such a horrid thing?

I have opinions on certain groups of people, based on my own experiences. I don't verbally or physically attack these people because of my opinions; so why shouldn't I be allowed to think what I want?

I honestly don't see the problem with paedophilia.

Why is being a 'paedophile' such a horrid thing?

I have sexual feelings for children. I don't act on these feelings; so why shouldn't I be allowed to think what I want?