Will I ever use Irish again??

CantStandMeNow

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Gan dabht, úsáidfidh mé ár dteanga, sa thodhcaí. 'Sé Gaeilge atá mar pháirt de mo chéad rogha don choláiste agus, fiú muna bhfaighim é, déanfaidh mé staidéar éigean ar an dteanga, fiú más mion-staidéar é.

Without doubt, I'll be using our language in the future. Irish is part of my first choice for college and even if I don't get it, I'll do some study on it, eve if it's only a little bit.



You're faith in the Irish language is based on the Americans' understanding of it? FFS Of course they'd think we were speaking Russian or something...both Irish and Russian are foreign to them and from the other side of the world!


Something that people who feel that the syllabus is turning people against it should bear in mind the changes in the Higher Level course in 2012. Stair na Gaeilge is being removed (which I have to say actually helped me in Geography!). Also, HL poetry is no longer obligotory - the teachers have the choice to teach the first third of 'A Thig Ná Tit Orm' (well, that's the Páirt 2 I did...not sure about others) or the HL poems. You still do the OL poems. It'll be a much easier course.

Also, the Oral will now be worth 40%, though the Aural is being reduce to 10% (I think).

The Oral-Aural divide is ridiculous.. FIRST rule of languages = Aural is the most important aspect of learning.. This is agreed upon by all experts and was told to Mary Coughlin repeatedly. Altough I agree with increasing the oral as well, decreasing the marks for the aural is absolutly insane.

jreanor

I really hope I do get the opportunity to keep it up because I love the language and "tír gan teanga tír gan anam". But sadly I dont think I will.

Although a lot of the syllabus can be a pain and it seriously needs to be revised(the new course is a step in the right direction), I think a lot of people use it as an excuse to avoid the language

FredBaby!

I may be in the minority here, but I will definetly be using Irish again. I've had a bad experience with it the last few years, what with a teacher who obviously hates the language, but I love to speak it with my friends and family. And as someone said before it's fairly handy for when you go abroad and don't want people to cop what you're on about!

I think people's attitudes to Irish needs to change. On the one hand you have people who loathe it because of school and then you have fanatics, who go mental if you make a grammatical error and think that Irish should be some little members club. As they say: 'Is fearr Gaeilge briste, ná Gaeilge cliste!'

Paz-CCFC

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

With English, you get a choice. There are eight poets - you only need to do 5 max to be guaranteed to answer anything that comes up on the paper.

But you'd still be taught more than twice the poems than HL Irish. And, in the new course, 6 times (should you be taught a book, and not the extra poems.

You get to choose the three comparative texts you want to do, not be constrained to a very small list that consists of An Triail, Maidhc Dain, Peig and A Thig na Thit Orm (and probably a few more). You also only have to study 2 modes to be guaranteed to answer anything, and there is an internal choice within each mode.

Would you really prefer to do a comparative of three Irish texts with a bit more variety, rather than one Irish text? I despised two of the three English comparative texts we did. I much preferred A Thig Ná Tit Orm. Much more interesting than a lot of the choices on the comparative, and only one text as opposed to three.

The Shakespearean isn't even that bad, as if you know your characters well, you can answer on any theme that comes up also.

Could you imagine doing a medieval Irish drama!

Quotes are much easier to learn as they are in English.

True, but bullsh*t is bullsh*t, despite the language. If it's completely uninteresting and irrelevant, it's gonna be hard to learn, regardless.

For Irish, you have to learn everything. You can't cut down, because there is always a compulsory poem (Faoiseamh a Gheobhadsa) and a compulsory Prós (Fiche Bliain ag Fás).

Yes, but there's also less on the Irish course. Also, you could indeed take a risk with Irish poetry and leave one or two out, with keeping a high chance of what you studied coming up. Would it be any different from people only studying Boland and Longley this year? And, the poems are on the Irish papers, making it easier.

Quotes are much harder to learn as they are in Irish.

Quotes aren't necessary for Irish, like English. Reference to the poems and prós is perfectly acceptable.

Also, in Irish, some people might not understand the question. That means that no matter how hard they have studied, they can't justify their work with their answer. Take the An Triail question this year - nearly everybody was confused by it.

They'll be trying to get the Bell Graph grading this year, like any, so if a lot of people answered the question wrong, the marking will be eased, accordingly.

It's highly unlikely that you wouldn't understand a question in an English exam

Of course people can take up a question wrongly. Regardless of it being the majorty's primary language, the more time pressure in English could easily lead to misinterpreting a question. If you haven't got a very high 'P' in English (the majority won't - they'll be getting low B's/high C's), then you haven't answered the question like was expected.

CantStandMeNow wrote: »

The Oral-Aural divide is ridiculous.. FIRST rule of languages = Aural is the most important aspect of learning.. This is agreed upon by all experts and was told to Mary Coughlin repeatedly. Altough I agree with increasing the oral as well, decreasing the marks for the aural is absolutly insane.

I presume it's to keep the written on an even basis with the non-written aspects of the language. Even if you don't agree with the reduction in Aural, the radical change of Paper 2, and having the nearly half the exam based on speaking the language is certainly a step in the right direction. Hopefully, the Oral will award more marks based on fluency, now, rather than learnt off, high quality phrases. Ditto with the essay, which has 80 marks out of 100 going for the Irish.

Aoifey!

Bar the occassional "Go raibh maith agat" and random Irish words, Irish probably won't be used again. Being forced to do those poems and stories is enough to turn anyone off the language.
Pretty sure I failed anyway.

ceol18

i hate to think that people will never use it again =(
the way it's taught in schools is just...so so backwards. people don't realise how great the whole concept of being able to speak their own language until they actually can ! ...well that was the case with me anyway! i couldn't string two words together until i went to the gaeltacht the first time (i might add, this was after ten years of being "taught" the language in school), and every time i went back there, i learnt more and more and gradually grew to love it. it's part of being irish!! it's so hard to explain but i just wish that everybody could speak it...even if it's not used that often! i'm hoping to go on and study it in college, and even though so many people say it's a waste of time, a dead language, a backwards language, i can't help but love it!
i suppose it really is a matter of opinion, but personally i would HATE to see irish decline to the point that it can never really return. it has been making a sort of comeback though in the last 10-20 years, what with gaeltachts and TG4 and all that lark... i really just think that because people are forced to learn it in school, they therefore associate it with the unpleasantness and negativity of the likes of maths (don't get me started on that ha, i have a TOTALLY different opinion on that) and then just automatically hate it and aren't bothered with it

b'fheidir is nerd mé, ach caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil gaeilge tábhachtach dom agus tá súil agam go mbeidh rudaí níos fearr ó taobh úsáid an teanga sa tódhchaí....is glas iad na cnioc i bhfad uainn!!! << LOL leaving cert irish taking over there!

ACTUALLY that's another thing - if we weren't forced to learn phrases and words and blah blah blah without knowing what they actually meant or understanding the structure and shizz, like...ughhh i can't even explain myself anymore, the way they teach irish in schools is just F**KED UP and it's almost as if they want us to hate it. something needs to be DONE!!!!!

ahahah brónies for the rant :P:p

catbear

Why must it be american?
"You're faith in the Irish language is based on the Americans' understanding of it?"
I have trouble understanding Irish people speaking English and I'm Irish.
It's interesting to see that nothing has changed in twenty years since I did my leaving cert.

I still to this day feel that I lost out a lot of time to Irish that could have been spent on another subject if I had had a choice.

I've never needed it since school. I believe the insistent forcing of the language on children says more about a nations insecurities about itself than its love of the language itself.

FruitLover

jreanor wrote: »

"tír gan teanga tír gan anam"

I don't even understand WTF that's supposed to mean - there must be over a hundred countries that don't have their "own" language (pretty much all of the Americas for example). We can't even claim our own language as our primary.

ceol18

FruitLover wrote: »

(pretty much all of the Americas for example). .

please don't tell me you mean states????

emchugh

In answer to your question, no I will not use irish again. Irish has become a redundant language. The emphasis in today's modern world is on a global language, which is spoken all over the globe and not by a minority in a small island nation. We should be studying relevant languages that could assist us in future employment searchs. Chinese, English, German, Spanish and French are all far more relevent in our lives, and should be taught in place of Irish. Irish should be made optional to those who wish to study it but with a serious overhaul in the core syllabus.

Blushingblue

I don't know if you only wanted current Leaving Cert to respond, but I just thought I'd give you some perspective from someone who last studied Irish 5 years ago!
When I did my Leaving, I believed I would never use Irish for anything ever again. I hated being "forced" to study and learn it, even if it's part of our culture and heritage. Also I wasn't very good with the subject, which made me believe I wouldn't remember it afterwards.

During the years, I have used it quite a few times more than expected. During college, I worked in a shop that had it's regular customers and tourists. A few of the regular customers speak Irish at home so I often had short friendly conversations in Irish with them or serve them in Irish, them asking for items in Irish and me seeing if I remembered what they are! A few tourists came in and asked about Irish and I would give them a few sayings if they were interested in learning a few.

Corkfeen wrote: »

Irish is fantastic for commenting on people in places abroad..... They think your speaking russian or something.......:D

This I have to admit to doing when I'm abroad. I think loads of people do it too, my sister was on a train in Europe a few years back when she heard a group of boys commenting on some of the locals in Irish!

Irish does come in handy sometimes! I was in New York a few months back and we were being stopped by people selling tickets and tours on the streets so many times that we used Irish to respond to them so that we could say we didn't understand. We were just saying random sentences we knew from school like can I go to the bathroom, some of the prayers in Irish and random sentences we learnt for the oral about ourselves! We actually got stopped by a fellow irish girl who was laughing when she heard what we were saying! :rolleyes:

Raic

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

With English, you get a choice. There are eight poets - you only need to do 5 max to be guaranteed to answer anything that comes up on the paper.

In English you may only have to study 5 poets, however you have to study at least 4 poems by each. So it's definitely more. Also, what people don't seem to realise about the Irish course is you don't have to study the poems that are set out. You have the choice to choose your own ones.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

You get to choose the three comparative texts you want to do, not be constrained to a very small list that consists of An Triail, Maidhc Dain, Peig and A Thig na Thit Orm (and probably a few more). You also only have to study 2 modes to be guaranteed to answer anything, and there is an internal choice within each mode.

The Shakespearean isn't even that bad, as if you know your characters well, you can answer on any theme that comes up also. Quotes are much easier to learn as they are in English.

Nope. In English it's true that you have plenty of choice, but then again, there is still only a certain number to choose from. In Irish you can choose to study whatever you want. Legends in folklore, drama, short stories, novels or autobiographies. You don't have to study An Triail or A Thig Ná Tit Orm. The problem is nobody seems to realise this (even though it's clearly on every single Irish exam paper).

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

For Irish, you have to learn everything. You can't cut down, because there is always a compulsory poem (Faoiseamh a Gheobhadsa) and a compulsory Prós (Fiche Bliain ag Fás).

Again, you can choose to study whatever poetry you want.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Quotes are much harder to learn as they are in Irish.

Well if you choose to do one of the poems which the department has set for the course then they give you the entire text of the poem, you don't even need to learn quotes.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Also, in Irish, some people might not understand the question. That means that no matter how hard they have studied, they can't justify their work with their answer.

Isn't this the exam same with French or German? I don't see the point you're making.

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Take the An Triail question this year - nearly everybody was confused by it. It's highly unlikely that you wouldn't understand a question in an English exam

That's because it's your first language. What about French or German, etc? It's quite possible you wouldn't understand a question in that language, yet for some reason people seem to ignore this apparent “issue” when it comes to those languages.


Anyway, I'm not trying to be contrary I'm just pointing out something which very few people seem to realise. If you look at what I've just pointed out you'll see that the Leaving Cert Irish course is actually extremely broad and you can direct your own study wherever you have interest. The real problem is when people start the Leaving Cert course with a very rudimentary knowledge of Irish, obviously in this case they'll find it hard and even grow to hate it. The problem lies with the teaching of the language in primary school. I believe that that's where the focus needs to be. If people were taught to speak it properly in primary school people wouldn't find all these difficulties in the current Leaving Cert course and they wouldn't develop such a hatred of the language.


Anyway, I'll definitely be using Irish even though the Leaving Cert is over.

Paz-CCFC

catbear wrote: »

Why must it be american?
"You're faith in the Irish language is based on the Americans' understanding of it?"
I have trouble understanding Irish people speaking English and I'm Irish.
It's interesting to see that nothing has changed in twenty years since I did my leaving cert.

I was replying to the poster, who seemed to think that Irish was ruined, cause Americans would have as little understanding of it as Russian. Which, is very logical, since they're both foreign languages, in the US!

I wasn't actually trying to say that Irish people don't not understand Irish. I was just pointing out the flaw of having a foreign country's understanding as the benchmark for our language's strength.

I still to this day feel that I lost out a lot of time to Irish that could have been spent on another subject if I had had a choice.

Many feel the same about Maths and English. I feel the same about French, which I had to study to get into college, despite having two other European languages (Irish and English).

I've never needed it since school.

Ditto with hundreds of thousands re the other forced subjects.

I believe the insistent forcing of the language on children says more about a nations insecurities about itself than its love of the language itself.

Although I'm not in favour of the current syllabuses (or past ones), I don't think it's unreasonable to have our country's native tongue as an obligatory subject.

Hatred

ClaireNo wrote: »

Is it something that you would consider an asset when you look for employment?

I will never ever use irish again. I gave up a european language (did 3 years for the JC) which has uses outside of school. There is no way I'll use a dead language like irish. I feel like I wasted 6 years of my life on irish that I could have learned something useful.

I doubt it'll help get a job unless its for RTE or something. Since I want to do something in physics, which Ireland doesn't give a flying f**k about I won't need irish.

muffinz

I dunno, I like Irish. In reality, its a waste, as the only job we can really get with it is connected to teaching other children, which is like a vicous circle!!

But I like to use it abroad, just to see peoples delighted reactions when they realise you speak Irish... I speak it sometimes with my friends when were bored, but overall its just for fun.

Schools teach irish in a terrible way. When we go into first year, the expect us to be genius' at it, but i never really did irish in school as it was always overcast by major elements such as maths!
They should teach it like the teach any other language in first year, from the beginning. Like spanish, they teach you "hello" in first year, they should do that with irish. would making learning irish easier, and would make us have more respect for the language, instead of hating it with all our hearts -.-

Emmpty

I used to quite like irish back in fifth year. But the fecking literature on the course has made me very very happy that I'll never have to use it anymore. Answering a paper using a language that I can barely speak after 14 years learning it was horrible. I couldn't even understand the questions!

Wolfe Tone

Personally I will use Irish again. I plan to join an Irish speaking society in Uni. I really wish the LC course was something like 70% Oral though, and that there would be an emphasis on learning to speak it rather than learning off specific answers. I can honestly say I learnt more Irish in the 1hr grinds I went to each week where I spoke it, rather than poring over notes as in school.
After all, Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam!

plein de force

ClaireNo wrote: »

Hi Guys,

My name is Claire, and I'm a student journalist at Westminster University, London. I'm completing my Final Project on the preservation of the Irish Language, and would love to get some feedback on just how useful it is to young students today.

Do you think this is the last time you will ever use Irish. Is it something that you would consider an asset when you look for employment?



Looking forward to your comments and views on this subject.



Thanks,

Claire

No i won't use it aftet my LC
and no it isn't an asset thanks to the way it's taught i can't string a sentence together and it wouldn't be an asset unless you want to be a primary school teacher, a secondary school teacher teaching irish or working for RTÉ, although i'm not sure they still have that stipulation

LadyGaga!

I'll definitely be speaking Irish again. Although the way Irish is taught isn't the greatest, I've had one of the best Irish teachers in the country I'd say, who was so inspiring and definitely makes you want to keep going with Irish. I plan on studying it in university and we'll take it from there!

I definitely think it's an asset when applying for employment - it's an official EU language (as of 2007), and having it definitely makes you a priority against other candidates for a job (unless they can speak Irish too!) as it shows you have the commitment to learn a 'dying language' and that you're proud of your culture. It counts for a lot.

Although I kind of laugh at the memories in first year when I knew nothing. We rarely studied Irish in primary school and we knew like nothing apart from the modh coinniollach (because our 6th class teacher was going crazy about some new report that came out saying the only like 30% of students knew it and she wanted us to be prepared lol).

FordieMUFC

There is nothing wrong with keeping some culture with the preservation of the Irish Language, but having it as compulsory in education is ridiculous. The clear majority of people would agree with this and that's not even to mention how poorly the Language is thought in this country. It's the most poorly thought subject in the curriculum and it's compulsory! what a joke. I'd love to be able to speak as much Irish as I do french, but thing is I will actually use french at some point in my life after the leaving, I can safely say I will never (nor think about) using Irish ever again.

johnmcdnl

FredBaby! wrote: »

: 'Is fearr Gaeilge briste, ná Bearla cliste!'

Teifeach

Reading some of the Comments makes me ashamed , and im sure that those with all the Negative comments about Irish are not , But you al should be (Youse Dare To Call Yourself Irish, my Window is more Irish than some of the people who have posted on here) . Irish is a Beautiful Language , yeah its hard to learn ... so what. Its Our language. I started learning almost 10 years ago late into my 30's , was it tough? yeah at times , was it worth it? without a shadow of a doubht. I live in the North and i use Irish almost every day with friends and online , i could not imagine life without the ability to speak my Native toungue. Its what separates us from the other Countries , i cannot Understand the need to learn French , German, Spainish when you cannot even speak your own language. Imagine learning Spainish and going to spain , and the first Person you meet is a Spainard who cannot speak Spanish , you would think what a Fool.. Do you that there are any German , French , Spainish kids who cannot speak their own Native toungue , i,d say NO.
Tá mé cinnte gur dtuigeann sibh an píosa , Gaeilge abú.

Orlaladuck

I'm only a third irish and I had to learn it. Bad teachers really made me hate it and throughout 6th year while I really do like some of the poems - An Chead Drama for example - it is pretty irrelevant. How many people do you find talking about Yeat's poetry in english let alone hypocrissy in An triail in every day conversation. My mother's fluent in irish and overly proud of it but I wish she'd let me give it up from day one rather than forcing me to do 10 years of it and still struggling to form a correct sentence at the end of it.
I think they should re-structure it completely - sure you don't see germans,french and spannish not speaking their own language but you can't compare that in my eyes. They're taught it from the moment they start speaking, we're taught it from junior infants. How are they able to speak english so fluently as a second language and they've been doing it the same amount of time? Because it's taught properly over there. None of this literature crap - if you want to study that, go do it in college or make the LC irish optional rather than forcing it down a bunch of teens throats. Half my time was consumed with irish this year - during the other language oral week the irish teacher gave us a massive test - completely unfair in comparison to the fact every other teacher dismissed us of work during the irish oral times. When I said I might not get an irish essay done because I had my portfolio to get me into college, which do you think came first? Sure that's just the teacher but she thought a language that might boost my marks in my leaving was more important that the actual work that will get me into college. It's not dead but it's dying and the educational system isn't exactly encouraging it to a renaissance.

spurious

I think in reality, most of you will be using Irish again, especially if you stay in this country and have children who attend schools.
By then, the long-planned changes will be brought in to the course and your kids will actually like Irish.

Teifeach

What was the weather like that day? Where your shoes too tight ? had your boy/girlfriend just dumped you ? Basically Excuses Excuses Excuses , Grow up life is life and You will find out and Hopefully real soon .... that ANYTHING worth Learning is well worth the effort , unless you want to go along Quitting everytime the wind changes ...

Orlaladuck

Are they actually planning to change anything though? They always say that and yet..

Orlaladuck

Teifeach wrote: »

What was the weather like that day? Where your shoes too tight ? had your boy/girlfriend just dumped you ? Basically Excuses Excuses Excuses , Grow up life is life and You will find out and Hopefully real soon .... that ANYTHING worth Learning is well worth the effort , unless you want to go along Quitting everytime the wind changes ...

Are you actually for real? I put Two years of effort into that portfolio Alongside all my leaving cert work because I damn well want to go to a good college and sacrificing one little essay that's worth less than 10% is apparently more important because it's part of our nation? 'Anything worth learning is well worth' what the hell do you think a portfolio is for? Displaying pretty pictures to my friends? I didn't say 'miss don't think i'll get it done because don't really like the subject'. It was something that Will determine my future and is Worth sacrificing one teeny essay. In the end I did do that essay and I did study for that test - i'm just pointing out that I struggled with it and I personally don't believe I should have for something that won't matter in the long run.
I've pretty much figured out what matters and what doesn't thanks very much.

Evan93

When I finish my LC next year I can safely say that I have no intention of ever using it again, that is not to say that I will ever use it again.

When asked: Do I like Irish? I invariably answer : I like the idea, I like that we have a national language, I like that we can say we have a national language. However, I do not like that we are forced to study it for 14 years and it essentially has no purpose only for a minority of courses and jobs. The people who take irish to 3rd level are the ones who like it, the people who like French are the ones who take it to 3rd level. So, whats the difference between Irish and French? Just because it is part of our culture, not forgetting that it hasn't been the predominant language in our country for centuries, does not mean that it should be forced upon people.

Realistically, when will there be a situation where we have to speak Irish in the foreseeable future? None. The only reason I would use Irish is because I would be willing to use it under my own free will. Given the number of students who look upon the language with contempt and disdain it can be said that not many will willingly use the language in the future.

It's a pointless subject devised by a narrow-minded government who seek to keep a minority of individuals happy, and thus ignoring the majority of people who wish it to be given the non-compulsory status.

catbear

Teifeach wrote: »

What was the weather like that day? Where your shoes too tight ? had your boy/girlfriend just dumped you ? Basically Excuses Excuses Excuses , Grow up life is life and You will find out and Hopefully real soon .... that ANYTHING worth Learning is well worth the effort , unless you want to go along Quitting everytime the wind changes ...

Forteen years of a compulsory subject and it's the students fault that they have nothing to show for it. Insult us in irish please so we can continue to ignore that attitude.

ceol18

i agree with the guy who made the point about meeting a spaniard who can't speak spanish. you'd laugh in his face and not believe he was actually from spain!

i know it's pretty common knowledge at this stage that ireland's main spoken language is english...but really when you think about it in context with the hundreds of other countries around the world even smaller than ireland that speak their own language, it's quite shameful to think that only a small minority of the population can actually speak it.