Enda wins

gpjordanf1

Rookster wrote: »

Enda Kenny has basically put his own interest above those of his party. FG would do much better in the next Gen Election without him as leader.

So who would get your vote?

And others here, who would you vote for as leader of FG? Can we get a clear consensus on this?

Especially all you floaters because I guess the election hinges on you?

For me Enda has proven hinself as a worthy leader, he has proven himself to those he works with. He has saved FG and everybody in it owes Enda for their positions. IMO

Maybe we should do a Poll?

Deise Tom

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

For me Enda has proven hinself as a worthy leader, he has proven himself to those he works with.

Is that why there was a contest for an election and a reported two votes between the two men that ran.

gpjordanf1

Deise Tom wrote: »

Is that why there was a contest for an election and a reported two votes between the two men that ran.

we all know why there was an election and it was 6 votes

Tipp Man

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

So if Bruton had won then nearly half the Party would be in favour of Kenny and as such by your reasoning his position would be untenable.
Now you mention over half the front bench were against him but only two have said they wont return to the front bench, hardly an overwhelming majority.
Oh the whole party have a right to vote on the issue, you cannot say take out this & that and Bruton would have won, its not relevant!

Oh and its about time people got over this and read the Party's policies on the Country, Economy, Employment and Health etc, this party is about a collection of minds & people and is not about one man!
We have to get rid of the cancer thats destroyed this country and that should be our aim!
We should focus our energy and attention to this.
People should also look at the promises made by FF & Green during the last election and see how much they have failed Every person in this country!

Bruton only needed to win by 1 vote, as the current incombent Enda had to have a significant majority to prove he had the party behind him, if there wasn't issues with Enda's leadership then Bruton wouldn't have been anywhere near to beating him. The fact is that "loyalty" to Enda won the vote for him whilst common sense failed for Bruton. This is clearly seen by the fact that Bruton supporters were coming out with lines like they wanted more from their leader to maximise the parties ability and that the party was significantly underperforming given the current circumstances, enda supporters were coming out with lines such as I'm sticking with Enda as thats the loyal thing to do, I'm loyal to Enda etc etc. It just strikes me the party voted out of loyalty and not common sense

The whole party do have a right to vote but the dail is where the action is at and for him to be sitting in the dail day in day out and not have the majority of his party in the dail supporting him is just plain stupid in my opinion. When you couple this with public opinion of him then it is pure madness that he is still leader

With regards to policies in your last paragraph, it is Kenny's job as party leader to make sure that the entire country know FG's policy on everything, to get the word out there, to put pressure on FF and to overturn them if he can. I can't see how he has achieved much in any of these areas in his 8 years in charge

Laminations

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

we all know why there was an election and it was 6 votes

6 votes = 3 people

38 Kenny vs. 32 Bruton

Someone changes to Bruton = 37 vs. 33
Another 36 vs. 34
Another 35 vs. 35

So it was damn close

If it was 6 people, it'd have to have been 41 Kenny vs. 29 Bruton

gpjordanf1

Tipp Man wrote: »

Bruton only needed to win by 1 vote, as the current incombent Enda had to have a significant majority to prove he had the party behind him, if there wasn't issues with Enda's leadership then Bruton wouldn't have been anywhere near to beating him.

Are you serious?

Bruton only needed one vote more while Enda needed a significant majority to be a convincing winner?

You just an ABE

Oh and Enda had 6 votes more which is nearly 10% of the poll, which is very convincing.

johngalway

Don't know where these numbers are coming from, from what I understand there were a few people who never declared confidence or no confidence in Enda. As far as I am aware only two people in FG (one of whom is my local TD) know the numbers, and neither is telling.

That aside, things didn't quite go as I expected. The announcement of the new front bench may well provide some insight.

I wonder when the next poll is due *insert innocently whistling smiley here*

Nody

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Oh and Enda had 6 votes more which is nearly 10% of the poll, which is very convincing.

Having fun with statistics are we? Your way of putting it reminds me of a newspaper who trumped out that Immigrants had increased the number of rapes in a small town by 100%! It turned out that from one year to the next it had gone from one to two immigrants convicted.

Six votes equals to 3 people changing side as noted above; that the sitting party leader wins by such a small margin is indeed a sign of weakness since clearly there is a big opposition to the person in the party.

Me I don't care either way who runs FG but don't try to turn it into some kind of show of strength; if anything it is a sign of weakness that it even got that far in the first place.

gpjordanf1

Nody wrote: »

Me I don't care either way who runs FG but don't try to turn it into some kind of show of strength; if anything it is a sign of weakness that it even got that far in the first place.

Ok yes were saying the same thing, 6 votes is 3 people, so it was close. Maybe the party are saying Meh! to both of them?

Anyone who wins a leadership challenge comes out of it stronger, its as simple as that. All you floaters/ anti FG / I dont care really / I spoil my vote, people here were full sure that Bruton or anyone who challenged Kenny would walk it, and ye just cant get over that this is not the fact and Enda won. Ye are deeply shocked?

Give the man credit he fought his corner at least some of the biased media gave him his dues.

If you really dont care then move on, the result wont change.

I'm still waiting to hear a name for the leadership besides the two that ran and surprise surprise no names are forthcoming.

stumpypeeps

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Ok yes were saying the same thing, 6 votes is 3 people, so it was close. Maybe the party are saying Meh! to both of them?

Anyone who wins a leadership challenge comes out of it stronger, its as simple as that. All you floaters/ anti FG / I dont care really / I spoil my vote, people here were full sure that Bruton or anyone who challenged Kenny would walk it, and ye just cant get over that this is not the fact and Enda won. Ye are deeply shocked?

Give the man credit he fought his corner at least some of the biased media gave him his dues.

If you really dont care then move on, the result wont change.

I'm still waiting to hear a name for the leadership besides the two that ran and surprise surprise no names are forthcoming.

Leo Veradkor

IrishTonyO

Only 2 people (Chairman and Assistant) know what the votes were and they are not telling, the number of votes for each side in the media is speculation

Foxtrol

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Ok yes were saying the same thing, 6 votes is 3 people, so it was close. Maybe the party are saying Meh! to both of them?

Anyone who wins a leadership challenge comes out of it stronger, its as simple as that. All you floaters/ anti FG / I dont care really / I spoil my vote, people here were full sure that Bruton or anyone who challenged Kenny would walk it, and ye just cant get over that this is not the fact and Enda won. Ye are deeply shocked?

Im not shocked that Kenny managed to win the vote, I'm shocked that he has the arrogance to put himself before his party and country and continue in charge when so many have come out in having no confidence in him.

Give the man credit he fought his corner at least some of the biased media gave him his dues.

Yes this evil biased Dublin "medja".

If you really dont care then move on, the result wont change.

Neither will the electorates opinion of Kenny.

I'm still waiting to hear a name for the leadership besides the two that ran and surprise surprise no names are forthcoming.

I'd be willing to look at any viable candidate who offered real change from FF. Kenny does not offer this.

fatboypee

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Baron Acton (1834–1902)

Many a question here as to WHO should be leader, taoiseach etc etc, the undeniable vibe is "Well ? show me an alternative"... The simple truth is, THERE IS'NT ONE !

Political parties in this country, (like the UK) have become homogeneous and I for one cannot see which party is either capable, morally just, or even honestly FOR THE PEOPLE anymore.
Surrounded by Bullsh1t, covered in self-ingratiating limelight and simply so far-removed from the needs and aspirations of those they deign to govern (or wish to) as to be utterly irrelevant in my view.

Its not FF did this and FG are best, or FG are crap and FF are the best and honestly, the only chink of light that was the Greens have succumbed to the "can't beat'em" club (no I'm not pro-Green).

What is clear to me is this:

WE NEED TOTAL AND UTTER CHANGE, WE NEED A PARTY WE CAN ELECT THAT WILL DO WHAT IS HONESTLY AND PURELY IN THE INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE, ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE, ALL PEOPLE.

While we have such nepotism, ineptitude and bumbling failed excuses for both government and opposition, there really, honestly is very little to hope, or vote for.

So, to the end-point, I would gladly join a party as above. If I had the where-with-all I would even start such a party. But it needs ground swell. It needs support. It needs all who, like me, are wingeing here to get up and do something about it.

Thats who should lead. IMHO

gpjordanf1

fatboypee wrote: »

So, to the end-point, I would gladly join a party as above. If I had the where-with-all I would even start such a party. But it needs ground swell. It needs support. It needs all who, like me, are wingeing here to get up and do something about it.

Thats who should lead. IMHO

Goodman fatboypee

Ready to do something instead of whining like alot of others here, throwing toys out of prams and the like.

Anyway, theres a discussion about this very subject here :http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055943662

and heres how you go about setting up your party: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/government-in-ireland/national-government/houses-of-the-oireachtas/registering_a_political_party

Best of luck with it and when your up and running let us know and keep us informed, ya never know might throw ye the vote if you find a good leader,candidates and trustworthy policies.

Hope this helps

IrishTonyO

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Goodman fatboypee

Ready to do something instead of whining like alot of others here, throwing toys out of prams and the like.

Ready to do something is not the same as doing something

nacho libre

sceptre wrote: »

Bottom line is that Fine Gael led by Enda Kenny is less palatable and less electable then Fine Gael led by someone else like, say, Richard Bruton. Far less palatable and far less electable I reckon.

It's not a question of charisma, it's a question of perceived competence. Enda Kenny's quite possibly going to be Tanaiste in the next government whereas a personnel change would make the replacement leader Taoiseach. What the FG parliamentary party have failed to realise when making their decision as a whole is that if the possibility of a Labour-led government as an alternative to FF becomes more likely,

that's unlikely to happen as a majority of Irish will not vote for a party of the left, in large numbers, when it comes to the crunch in these straitened times. Once the scrutiny comes on Labour's policies, and a bit of substance is required from Gilmore, rather than populist rhetoric, the love affair with his parlimentary skills will fade. you'll see in the months to come more and more threads on here warning of the danger of a Labour government endangering the recovery. I suspect we'll also see an anti-Labour drive conducted by FF through its friends in the media. If this campaign is effective soon enough Labour will be back to their usual position of third in the polls.
so there is no need for the right-wingers, like your good self, on this forum to have high blood pressure just yet!

Deise Tom

Laminations wrote: »

6 votes = 3 people

38 Kenny vs. 32 Bruton

Someone changes to Bruton = 37 vs. 33
Another 36 vs. 34
Another 35 vs. 35

So it was damn close

If it was 6 people, it'd have to have been 41 Kenny vs. 29 Bruton

Someone on newstalk said it was 36 to 34.

Deise Tom

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Only 2 people (Chairman and Assistant) know what the votes were and they are not telling, the number of votes for each side in the media is speculation

Which sides were they on.

Foxtrol

Deise Tom wrote: »

Which sides were they on.

Surely you're not inferring any kind of corruption by a politician. That could never happen... :rolleyes:

Deise Tom

Foxtrol wrote: »

Surely you're not inferring any kind of corruption by a politician. That could never happen... :rolleyes:

I am only asking a question, as what i heard was the vote was 36-34 and the papers have been shredded. People can make what they want of it

IrishTonyO

Deise Tom wrote: »

I am only asking a question, as what i heard was the vote was 36-34 and the papers have been shredded. People can make what they want of it

where did you hear it was 36-34?

Laminations

Deise Tom wrote: »

I am only asking a question, as what i heard was the vote was 36-34 and the papers have been shredded. People can make what they want of it

If they are the numbers then that is one vote in the difference. Pascal O'Donahue is the chairman and he was on Brutons side. It's a bit low to suggest they rigged the vote, even FF wouldn't do that

Sleepy

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Ok yes were saying the same thing, 6 votes is 3 people, so it was close. Maybe the party are saying Meh! to both of them?

Anyone who wins a leadership challenge comes out of it stronger, its as simple as that. All you floaters/ anti FG / I dont care really / I spoil my vote, people here were full sure that Bruton or anyone who challenged Kenny would walk it, and ye just cant get over that this is not the fact and Enda won. Ye are deeply shocked?

Give the man credit he fought his corner at least some of the biased media gave him his dues.

If you really dont care then move on, the result wont change.

I'm still waiting to hear a name for the leadership besides the two that ran and surprise surprise no names are forthcoming.

To be honest I think I can speak for many of us floating voters when I say that I judged Fine Gael by it's front bench. Realising that so much of it's back bench are the same as the gombeen men on the other side of the house is seriously off-putting. Sure, I assumed there'd be a few gob****es in the ranks as the Irish electorate seems capable of electing all sorts of gob****es *cough* Flynn *cough* Lowry *cough* O' Dea *cough* but I never assumed there'd be so many...

Realising that the front bench are so out of step with the rest of the party makes me lose faith in the party. The front bench have their heads on but does that matter if the parliamentary party can over-rule them?

BlaasForRafa

Laminations wrote: »

6 votes = 3 people

38 Kenny vs. 32 Bruton

Someone changes to Bruton = 37 vs. 33
Another 36 vs. 34
Another 35 vs. 35

So it was damn close

If it was 6 people, it'd have to have been 41 Kenny vs. 29 Bruton

And the word is that most of the Senators and MEPs (god only knows why) voted for Kenny, so a majority of the parliamentary party didn't think Kenny had the capability to be taoiseach material.

Berti Vogts

Rookster wrote: »

Enda Kenny has basically put his own interest above those of his party. FG would do much better in the next Gen Election without him as leader.

Absolutely agree. Kenny has had 8 years to convince the public that he would be a strong Taoiseach. The country is in the grip of a massive recession. This is an incredibly easy time to be an opposition politician. And his approval rating is 24%.

Despite this, a majority of the Fine Gael parliamentary party decided that they have confidence in him.

Well, here's one floating voter (and one who firmly believes that FF deserve a long break on the sidelines) who cannot understand the logic of this decision and would strongly welcome the introduction of another political party in the next election. Because FF, FG and Labour are simply not doing it for me. And many others I suspect.

unit 1

So Enda Kenny is supposet to be wooden and a bit of a plank.

Bruton and his sharpshooters decided to chop him up.

Last thing you need to find when chopping wood is steel nails.

Enda has buckets of them:D

UP MAYO:D:D:D

Berti Vogts

unit 1 wrote: »

So Enda Kenny is supposet to be wooden and a bit of a plank.

Bruton and his sharpshooters decided to chop him up.

Last thing you need to find when chopping wood is steel nails.

Enda has buckets of them:D

UP MAYO:D:D:D

unit 1

Sleepy wrote: »

To be honest I think I can speak for many of us floating voters when I say that I judged Fine Gael by it's front bench. Realising that so much of it's back bench are the same as the gombeen men on the other side of the house is seriously off-putting. Sure, I assumed there'd be a few gob****es in the ranks as the Irish electorate seems capable of electing all sorts of gob****es *cough* Flynn *cough* Lowry *cough* O' Dea *cough* but I never assumed there'd be so many...

Realising that the front bench are so out of step with the rest of the party makes me lose faith in the party. The front bench have their heads on but does that matter if the parliamentary party can over-rule them?

Floating voters like all other voters, vote on the people before them and on local issues, or what they perceive the politician can do for them, not on party leaders. Expressions of no confidence in opinion polls are merely peoples opinions and have only a marginal affect on the overall election results.

Deise Tom

IrishTonyO wrote: »

where did you hear it was 36-34?

Heard it on Newstalk today. Someone said it on the Lunchtime show.

EnoughIsEnough

Laminations wrote: »

If they are the numbers then that is one vote in the difference. Pascal O'Donahue is the chairman and he was on Brutons side. It's a bit low to suggest they rigged the vote, even FF wouldn't do that

Even Charlie Haughney did not try to stop the public knowing the numbers For and Against.

God forbid but think where we might be if he had decided that two of his people would count paper votes and then shred them with the contenders agreeing to accept the result. The mind boggles as to what Anglo would have done under Charlie.

I think the Fine Gael party rules should be changed to reflect the basis principles of democracy. Things must not just be above board they must be SEEN to be above board as we have so many examples in the Church and Politics etc of what happens when secrecy rules etc