Enda wins

lugha

Breezer wrote: »

For me, this isn't about Kenny, it's about Fine Gael as a whole. They have a leader who does not have the support of half his party. They currently have no one on the front bench, and I dread to think who Enda will now put in there, given that so many of his top people have said they will not serve under him. These are the people that have formulated FG policy, the policies I agree with. Without them, FG no longer represents what it did last week.

I'm adopting a wait and see approach, but today, no, I would not vote for Fine Gael. It's not because of Kenny, who I've defended vigorously in the past (although admittedly a lot less since January/February). It's because of Bruton, Varadkar, Hayes, etc.

It is important to distinguish between those who recognise that image and such nonsense are regrettably, important in politics and those who admit that such rubbish influences how they will vote. It is perfectly reasonable for Richard Bruton to recognize that Enda Kenny was hurting FG’s prospect, not for the good (not great!) reasons some posters have cited above but because a lot of the electorate are idiots who shouldn’t be allowed out unaccompanied, never mind vote, and mount his challenge. Indeed I think it would have been far better for FG, and for all of us, if Bruton had succeeded even if it would jar with me that such image codology influences politics. No doubt those that backed Bruton felt the same way.
And yes, there is a serious problem if they FG cannot or will not bring back those big guns. But let’s dip in to realism for a moment. If the electorate decide to abandon FG in large numbers at the next GE, then we will be handing the four in a row to FF. And if we do that we will have absolutely no grounds whatsoever to criticize any FF decisions, past or future.

Deise Tom

Sand wrote: »

One has to wonder what impact this will have on his plans for the Seanad. They backed him when his own front bench and the majority of TDs moved against him, and those Senators will be expecting their reward.

Good point. I expect Enda to come out in the next few days and say it was not him that said the Seanad should go, but now that he is himself, he things not only should it stay, but numbers should be increased.

Deise Tom

lugha wrote: »

Can anybody cite a real, non-bulls**t reason for not voting for FG while Kenny is in charge?

Can anybody cite a real, non-bulls**t reason for actually voting for FG while Kenny is in charge?

Deise Tom

stumpypeeps wrote: »

He's a puppet, with Phil Hogan pulling the strings. That

The same applies in labour between Guilmore and Joan whatever her name is.

Liam Byrne

Deise Tom wrote: »

The same applies in labour between Guilmore and Joan whatever her name is.

Not to mention the two muppets that are currently "in charge", with Anglo-Irish Bank and the Golden Circle pulling the strings.

lugha

Deise Tom wrote: »

Can anybody cite a real, non-bulls**t reason for actually voting for FG while Kenny is in charge?

How about the fact that he wasn't part of any of the governments that made the mistakes what we will be paying for for the next 30 years.

Deise Tom

Matt Santos wrote: »

Only two people have publicly stated that they could not serve on a Front Bench lead by Enda Kenny.

It would say alot about anyone that have said in public that he should be replaced. The same could be said about those that actually voted against him, if they were to actually sit beside him shout across the house.

Deise Tom

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Not to mention the two muppets that are currently "in charge", with Anglo-Irish Bank and the Golden Circle pulling the strings.

Guess they know only to well they are not popular, unlike the two labour puppets.

hmmm

The worst thing about today is that it guarantees Labour will be in the next government. This has put paid to any chance of FG picking up the floating vote so they cannot now get an overall majority and will require a coalition. My real fear is that Labour will now become the largest party at the next election. Jack O'Connor is probably already packing his boxes for the move into government buildings.

Deise Tom

lugha wrote: »

How about the fact that he wasn't part of any of the governments that made the mistakes what we will be paying for for the next 30 years.

Wasnt he involved in the 90's, and maybe even the 80's, and the present gang had to come in and pick up the pieces. I know they have made mistakes since, but they have shown that they can pick the country up from the ashes and will do so again.

Nodin

lugha wrote: »

How about the fact that he wasn't part of any of the governments that made the mistakes what we will be paying for for the next 30 years.

You mean they should run under the "We aren't Fianna Fail" banner...

While I can see how thats going to have some appeal, it's hardly the most self confident approach, or indeed one that would give faith in the abilities of the 'we're not Fianna Fail' party....

Foxtrol

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

I'd like to congratulate Enda today,

He deserved the win, he's worked hard for it, not only the last week but the last 8 years.
FG were in the toilet in '02 and nobody wanted the job and none of the talent mentioned in this thread wanted it either. Dont forget Bruton was there too. FG need a leader and Enda stood firm, nobody else.
The front bench back stabbers have been plotting this for some time and they have dragged Enda & the party down by their non preformance due to grievances with Enda. But this talent decides amongst themselves to stab the leader of their party in the back instead of standing up and being counted from day one. Cowards.

I think its more cowardly to follow like a sheep than stand up against something/one you dont believe in.

The "floaters" with no party allegiances who dont know what to do now, well ye can vote for FF again, its what ye done last time. There's no point in taking out your frustrations on the opposition leader for your mistakes, and that he doesn't live up to your "X Factor" mentality, its a pity you couldn't text in your vote like you did on a saturday night.

Well the floaters aren't being given much of a choice seeing as its now between FG who have a leader that couldn't command the confidence of his front bench and Labour who's leader has about as much depth as his last soundbite. The electorate are dying for an alternative but no one seem to want to offer a viable one.

Anyway theres no election for some time due to the spineless crowd that are in power at the moment backed up by their lackies.

I will laugh at the hypocrisy when Enda Kenny stands up in the Dail and again goes on how FF should go because the people don't want them. He's just shown that all we can expect is more of the same if FG get back into power.

Mr.Micro

Mr.Micro wrote: »

So its more of the same from FG then with the majority backing dull Kenny. I guess that is the next election blown then for FG. Bruton might not be everyones cup of tea but FG need a new leader other than Kenny. FF will be delighted that FG have a leader as ineffective as Biffo.

Nail.
Head.
Hammered.

azul

Unbelievable carry on altogether. I certainly don't want these silly people running my country.... EVER!! And as for the other shower... My GOD!!

dusty207

Hi Guys
We were discussing the same issues on a separate thread but sceptre decided we were boring and closed us down.
Since we were replying to each others points it'll take a while to get up to speed on your points. Bit like Fine Gael and their leadership I suppose. Consider us to the the Richard Brutons of this world and sceptre to be Enda.

lugha

Nodin wrote: »

You mean they should run under the "We aren't Fianna Fail" banner...

While I can see how thats going to have some appeal, it's hardly the most self confident approach, or indeed one that would give faith in the abilities of the 'we're not Fianna Fail' party....

Well there isn't a huge ideological difference between FF and FG and hasn't been for quite a while. "We didn't make this mess" will be the strongest card they can play when they contest and win the next GE.

Foxtrol

rugbyman wrote: »

p.s. it is fairly easy ,after reading a number of a perticular persons posts to "read" that person. In these FG leadreship posts the amount of vitriol,and the frequency of posts ,suggests to me that those posters have little of no interest in FG.

I can only speak for myself in this and no I don't have too much interest in FG as a party or their internal disputes. I however do have an interest in the country (as FG should have) and getting FF out of government but today these interests took a huge battering. The electorate want a viable alternative and I had pinned my hopes on that being FG under new leadership but thats now down the toilet thanks to "the lads" watching each others back. I really shudder to think how this has opened the door for either FF getting back into power or, possibly even worse, Labour (we might as well call the IMF now if that occurs).

lugha

Deise Tom wrote: »

Wasnt he involved in the 90's, and maybe even the 80's, and the present gang had to come in and pick up the pieces. I know they have made mistakes since, but they have shown that they can pick the country up from the ashes and will do so again.

No they won't Tom. But in fairness, I don't think FG will either. Our goose is cooked, we are just waiting for the oven timer to beep in the next year or two.
It would be nice to think that the resultant turmoil would lead to a new political landscape where both FF and FG would fade away and we would have major political groupings not based in what happened in the 1920s. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

peasant

Who cares who won?

It doesn't make one blind bit of difference to the Irish political landscape whether it's Inda or Richard. They both aren't leadership material, far from it.

And I don't mean leadership material for the band of faithful followers that make up their party (I couldn't care less which of the one-eyed is leading the blind) but leadership for the country.

FF have a proven record of only looking after themselves and their friends, FG have just proven the same. All they care about is themselves and their little circles of influence and power ...country, what country?


And Gilmore isn't leaderhip material either ...he's far too blinkered by red union flags to see the big picture.

Childish fisticuffs among egocentric halfwits in a struggle for power and influence ...that's all the whole Dail amounts to. No leadership to be seen anywhere within a mile of it.

Meanwhile the country drives uncontrollably against the wall with no-one at the wheel.

Sand

@lugha

How about the fact that he wasn't part of any of the governments that made the mistakes what we will be paying for for the next 30 years.

I wasnt part of those governments either - can I count on your vote next time out?

@hmmm

My real fear is that Labour will now become the largest party at the next election. Jack O'Connor is probably already packing his boxes for the move into government buildings.

He wont have too much unpacking to do. He practically lived there for the past decade, with a resulting effect on economic policy.

Foxtrol

lugha wrote: »

Well there isn't a huge ideological difference between FF and FG and hasn't been for quite a while. "We didn't make this mess" will be the strongest card they can play when they contest and win the next GE.

Which is what they've been relying on already and will only work to a certain extent as people remember that during the boom both FG and Labour were demanding more spending, more tax cuts and since the recession a large number of items were the parties differed, FF have been independently vindicated and/or praised.

The opposition need to show more than that they didn't make the mess.

BluntGuy

Foxtrol wrote: »

The opposition need to show more than that they didn't make the mess.

Both main opposition parties have a lot of proposed policies. FG in particular have put effort into producing clear policy documents with a good level of detail - NewEra, FairCare etc.

People should take some time to read them instead of expecting to be spoon-fed by our abysmal media (RTE, Irish Independent, Irish Times etc.)

peasant

BluntGuy wrote: »

Both main opposition parties have a lot of proposed policies. FG in particular have put effort into producing clear policy documents with a good level of detail - NewEra, FairCare etc.

People should take some time to read them instead of expecting to be spoon-fed by our abysmal media (RTE, Irish Independent, Irish Times etc.)

And there I was, thinking that it was the job of a political party to bring their policies before the people ...instead we're given the Punch and Judy show

rugbyman

A number of posters are still referring to those on the Fg front bench who HAVE no confidence in their leader. I think that since this evening they, the Fg resigners, have had the error of their ways corrected by the larger FG parliamentary party.

I imagine that if any of them are asked in public ,about their loyalty tomorow, none will say boo.

Rugbyman

Foxtrol

BluntGuy wrote: »

Both main opposition parties have a lot of proposed policies. FG in particular have put effort into producing clear policy documents with a good level of detail - NewEra, FairCare etc.

People should take some time to read them instead of expecting to be spoon-fed by our abysmal media (RTE, Irish Independent, Irish Times etc.)

I was responding to lugha who had said their strongest card was the "I didn't do it" one. I agree that FG do have a lot more clear policy documented than Labour but solid proportion of the electorate are not going to care if they don't have confidence in their leader.

EnoughIsEnough

.... with many of the contributors who feel none of the political parties have what it takes to lead this country through the even harder times ahead. Don't anyone think we have seen of the end of this recession.

I feel that a National Government (with an agreed set of economic objectives etc). For a set period of 4 or 5 years and taking the best talent (and not picking Ministers based on geographic considerations etc) from FG , FF and labour if they want to particiapte is our only chance of avoiding complete meltdown.

Those who have complained of expenditure cuts etc should read up on what the IMF demands from Governments in return for its money.

Indeed if Labour were to stay outisde to provide a lead to the opposition we might end up with amore realistci Right / Left choice in the future which is exactly why FG and FF will need to be forced into such a NATIONAL GOVERNMENT

IrishTonyO

rugbyman wrote: »

A number of posters are still referring to those on the Fg front bench who HAVE no confidence in their leader. I think that since this evening they, the Fg resigners, have had the error of their ways corrected by the larger FG parliamentary party.

I imagine that if any of them are asked in public ,about their loyalty tomorow, none will say boo.

Rugbyman

The majority were already backtracking this evening

Sand

The majority were already backtracking this evening

I'm sure Fianna Fail and Labour wont beat FG to death with the lack of confidence their front bench has in Kenny. It will all be forgotten about.

Foxtrol

rugbyman wrote: »

A number of posters are still referring to those on the Fg front bench who HAVE no confidence in their leader. I think that since this evening they, the Fg resigners, have had the error of their ways corrected by the larger FG parliamentary party.

I imagine that if any of them are asked in public ,about their loyalty tomorow, none will say boo.

Rugbyman

Handing the electorate more reasons to distrust them. In the grander scheme of things I don't think any part of the PR side of this could have been handled worse by either side.

thetonynator

lugha wrote: »

How about the fact that he wasn't part of any of the governments that made the mistakes what we will be paying for for the next 30 years.

I wasn't either, doesn't mean you should vote for me.