is the leaving cert fair enough?

sarahisdeadly

NufcNavan wrote: »

The Leaving Cert is a terrible system.

It is basically a memory test, that is designed for cramming. Smarter people can adapt much better and do much better than 'average' students who work continuously hard all year. Fair? No it is not.

That's the thing I like about the leaving cert.
Smarter people can do well without putting a huge amount of work in. But surely being smart is important on deciding a college place.
And even a person who's not that smart can work really hard to do as well, and being a hard worker also gets you ahead.

010010011010

The fair thing about the Leaving is that you get out of it what you put into it and thats that.For example Boland didnt come up and you were screwed then too bad thats what you get for putting all your eggs into one basket.

No, you see its half luck. Luck shouldnt come into it. For instance art history, i got caught cause newgrange didnt come up, but had i studied the whole course fully i would have a whole bunce of average information in my head. Now take someone who gambled on a particular topic and it did come up, theyre gona know it much better than you, and get the higher grade. Likewise i did well in dcg because gears didnt come up in section c, luck once again, but it shouldnt be like that.

Luck and mindless memory, thats what you need for the leaving cert

johnmcdnl

sarahisdeadly wrote: »

That's the thing I like about the leaving cert.
Smarter people can do well without putting a huge amount of work in. But surely being smart is important on deciding a college place.
And even a person who's not that smart can work really hard to do as well, and being a hard worker also gets you ahead.

have to agree with this somewhat... smart people can work the leaving cert system and get good results so the smart students come to the fore... the average hard workers though will get decent results as well but the lazy students do poorly... at the end of the day it's the smart and hard working students that colleges want.. not the lazy tossers who go to college to drink and drop out after 6 months..

ddef

johnmcdnl wrote: »

have to agree with this somewhat... smart people can work the leaving cert system and get good results so the smart students come to the fore... the average hard workers though will get decent results as well but the lazy students do poorly... at the end of the day it's the smart and hard working students that colleges want.. not the lazy tossers who go to college to drink and drop out after 6 months..

Awwww, come on!!!
thats the part i was looking forward to the most!

smack my twitch up

No Its Not. Im pretty sure I got 600 with half the effort of someone who will end up getting about 400. But life isnt fair:mad:

wonderfulname

FewToLose wrote: »

You could be kept busy if the subjects were taught in the in-depth and critical way as the British a-levels are. Leaving certificate students in my opinion (as a 2nd year university student) are wholly unprepared for university (verses an english classmate who did critical thinking as part of his a-levels and knew what it was all about and could easily criticise and question before coming to uni, unlike the Irish people in our class)

Personally I don't believe the A level system is all that better than our own, every critique we have of the Leaving Cert has been voiced in concerns over A Levels as well.

I would be inclined to view an Irish students lack of critical thinking as a reflection on our society rather than our education system. I've always regarded it as somewhat odd that people apparently need to learn how to interpret the world around them, to actually think for themselves. Surely this ability should start to form in childhood, long before the essay cramming ever begins?

tracker-man

Is the Leaving Cert a fair system?
Ask me on the 18th august!

wonderfulname

tracker-man wrote: »

Is the Leaving Cert a fair system?
Ask me on the 18th august!

Sums up the thread for me, massively, massively biased.

tommyhaas

Obviously there are flaws in the Leaving Cert system, however overall its a level playing field. Everyone knows from day 1 whats required, and everyone has the same opportunities to do well. Its the great thing about the points system, dosent matter where your from or what school you went to, your judged only on results.

Wrt to continous assesment,maybe as in colleges 30% of your mark could go for continious assesment, however in the real world you'l have to perform in your job under pressure, and in that regard, the leaving cert is a good assesment

EuropeanSon

tommyhaas wrote: »

Obviously there are flaws in the Leaving Cert system, however overall its a level playing field. Everyone knows from day 1 whats required, and everyone has the same opportunities to do well. Its the great thing about the points system, dosent matter where your from or what school you went to, your judged only on results.

Wrt to continous assesment,maybe as in colleges 30% of your mark could go for continious assesment, however in the real world you'l have to perform in your job under pressure, and in that regard, the leaving cert is a good assesment

I could point out that in the real world you have to perform your job constantly and not just once at the end of 2 years preparation.

I like the system, though. It suits me, I can do well in it.

LC2010HIS

vicksterchick wrote: »

To be honest, I completely disagree with the whole Leaving Cert system. I think it's unfair that our entire lives should hinge on one set of exams.

Continuous assessment FTW!

I came out thursday in tears. After all the study - I bombed. Im feeling so disappointed Probably be back repeating .
I think the LC is a joke. Continous assesment makes sense. Why would the gov want to build up so much pressure into 1-2 weeks? For our age? Only for 1-2weeks to determine our pathways in life - its unfair
They want us educated?
And irish - watched the frontline there the other night - its a joke!
When will they realise its a dead language? Just give it up... All this talk of other nations speaking their native language - WE SPEAK ENGLISH AND HAVE BEEN FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS
It should be optional !! I mean, what do people use irish for? Only to become Irish teachers and teach it to me- who doesnt want to know.
Get with the times please....

Eire-Dearg

wonderfulname wrote: »

parents not supportive of education - know many for whom this is a reality but not an issue

Never read such bull****. Not an issue for some, a hindrance for most.

LC2010HIS

NufcNavan wrote: »

The Leaving Cert is a terrible system.

It is basically a memory test, that is designed for cramming. Smarter people can adapt much better and do much better than 'average' students who work continuously hard all year. Fair? No it is not.

Agree completely.
I think i deserve to persue a course im suited to. and its not fair that i get blocked from persuing a career because of the likes of maths.
Testement to NufcNavan : I was stressed as i dont have the best memory. I came out last week bawling and am more or less repeating.


And people call the LC fair??? ....yeah - fair for who exactly?? The ones with brilliant memorys?
Anyone can have a good memory - doesnt mean theyre smarter or any more capable in careers than people who dont. Maybe the irish times should put THAT in their newspaper!

tommyhaas

LC2010HIS wrote: »

I came out thursday in tears. After all the study - I bombed. I feeling so disappointed Probably be back repeating .
I think the LC is a joke. Continous assesment makes sense. Why would the gov want to build up so much pressure into 1-2 weeks? For our age? Only for 1-2weeks to determine our pathways in life - its unfair

Sorry to hear it didnt go well for you, however you had 2 years to prepare. Yea theres quiet a lot of pressure for the two weeks, however its the same for everyone doing it. You have to get used to working under pressure, its just life

In fairness with the age, at 17/18 your an adult, its not like there making 12 year old kids do it

EuropeanSon

LC2010HIS wrote: »

Agree completely.
I think i deserve to persue a course im suited to. and its not fair that i get blocked from persuing a career because of the likes of maths.
Testement to NufcNavan : I was stressed as i dont have the best memory. I came out last week bawling and am more or less repeating.
And people call the LC fair??? ....yeah - fair for who exactly?? The ones with brill memorys? Anyone can have a good memory - doesnt mean theyre smarter than people who dont.

Memory doesn't help you in maths, except theorums, English paper one, or numerous other ability based tests which don't require any memorisation.

LC2010HIS

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Memory doesn't help you in maths, except theorums, English paper one, or numerous other ability based tests which don't require any memorisation.

English is my best subject - I know that ..Im good at it

simbathelion

I feel that one of the main problems with the Leaving Cert, is the ratio of knowledge required for one exam, If you look at college exams, you can see that when a student starts in Sept. he or she will have exams for the following Christmas and deal with that block, but with the Leaving Cert, just look at the ratio of knowledge required per student compared to older students sitting the college exams, I am not undermining the level of work college students do, I think what they do is really great, just look at the biology books, history books, geog. books etc etc. the list goes on. What seriously needs to be looked at is the amount required to do. And another thing what in the name of God are the Government paying 30 million per year to service the Junior Cert. Why on earth do we need to put young 14 year olds though a state exam, its utterly insane and a total waste of money, far better using the money in Education elsewhere.

LC2010HIS

simbathelion wrote: »

And another thing what in the name of God are the Government paying 30 million per year to service the Junior Cert. Why on earth do we need to put young 14 year olds though a state exam, its utterly insane and a total waste of money, far better using the money in Education elsewhere.

I agree...
Another thing that is not necessary

NTMK

thomasj wrote: »

1. Is there too long a wait for results?
Does the long wait destroy the summer holidays for students?

A bit too long as it the second and third round offers are out halfway though the first semester of college

2. Should there be a mechanism for repeats for students a few months later? Is it fair that to repeat students have to do the following year?

yep again the college system doesnt facilitate anything other than repeating a year later

3. Is the current system of viewing papers marked and appealing results fair enough?

I dont see a problem with it

4. Just to throw in is the current points system fair enough and how would you improve it

aptitude test should be introduced and altering the system to where your performance in subjects relevant to your chosen course plays a much bigger part i.e relevant subjects score better points

tommyhaas

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I could point out that in the real world you have to perform your job constantly and not just once at the end of 2 years preparation.

In most jobs you'l have to perform well constantly anyway (as with 5th & 6th yr if you wana do well) and frequently you will find yourself under a lot of pressure. As I was saying earlier, maybe 30 % continous assesment with the rest on a final exam could work

EDIT: Unless your a TD obviously, you only have to scratch yourself a few weeks before election time...

NufcNavan

LC2010HIS wrote: »

Agree completely.
I think i deserve to persue a course im suited to. and its not fair that i get blocked from persuing a career because of the likes of maths.
Testement to NufcNavan : I was stressed as i dont have the best memory. I came out last week bawling and am more or less repeating.


And people call the LC fair??? ....yeah - fair for who exactly?? The ones with brilliant memorys?
Anyone can have a good memory - doesnt mean theyre smarter or any more capable in careers than people who dont. Maybe the irish times should put THAT in their newspaper!

To be honest I have one exam left and I didn't put in a whole lot of effort going into them, that's because I'd like to think Im fairly smart and can get away with it. That and I got lucky with predictions.

I have friends who struggle in certain subjects and work their arse off for them, and get little reward. It's just not fair. It should come down to who has worked the hardest but it simply does not.

timt

NufcNavan wrote: »

It should come down to who has worked the hardest but it simply does not.

No it should come down to whos the smartest IMO. I hate studying, but in my career I wont have to study things i dont care about.

Unless your a landuage person the LC is very unfair.

chaoticmess

thomasj wrote: »

its been a while since i sat my leaving cert but i sat college exams this year and something dawned on me:

Is the most important exam of your life fair enough?

Drawing comparisons between the leaving cert and college

1. Is there too long a wait for results?
Does the long wait destroy the summer holidays for students?

2. Should there be a mechanism for repeats for students a few months later? Is it fair that to repeat students have to do the following year?

3. Is the current system of viewing papers marked and appealing results fair enough?

4. Just to throw in is the current points system fair enough and how would you improve it

any thoughts?

I think that it should be available sooner, simply because there should be time to correct appeals in time for the beginning of the university year. It's not fair to mess around with people's lives. For the sake of a few points someone could miss out in a course and then realise just as its too late that they actually had done well enough!

vicksterchick wrote: »

To be honest, I completely disagree with the whole Leaving Cert system. I think it's unfair that our entire lives should hinge on one set of exams.

Continuous assessment FTW!

Agree entirely!!

thomasj wrote: »

well how about having the exams over two years instead of one, have three or four in fifth year, three or four in sixth year

means more time to study each of the four subjects in school, rather than seven, less books to carry, homework etc.

I agree with this to a certain extent. But what I would think is maybe to do one leaving cert subject during Junior Cert Years - like you can do an A level while doing your GCSEs, that seems to work out really well. Something like Geography is perfectly doable even for a younger person, and depending on the mind set, even Biology would be for some people!

ride-the-spiral wrote: »

Critical Thinking should definitely be incorporated as a subject, would be much more beneficial than Religion, SPHE, CSPE, Careers and alot of 4th year subjects.

I agree with this too! It would be of a lot more use!

IrishKev

Didn't read the whole thread but I definately think that some exams, especially English Paper 2, should be made longer. It's really unfair that if one person has been studying really hard for the past two years and knows the curriculum well but maybe cannot write as fast as other people or takes a longer mount of time to do something that their grade can suffer over it, even though they might be a god student. I think the timing in Eng 2 is very short considering the amount needed to write, roughly 15-20 pages is the norm and students should be given more than 200 minutes to write all of this. One good thing that has happnened over the past few years though is the change made where Eng 1 and Eng 2 are on different days. It's a way better for many reasons, for one writing 30+ A4 pages in one day is near impossible and extremely demanding, and also studying for each subject individually has great effect and makes it a lot easier and makes each exma more approachable and less nerve-wracking.

sarahisdeadly

simbathelion wrote: »

And another thing what in the name of God are the Government paying 30 million per year to service the Junior Cert. Why on earth do we need to put young 14 year olds though a state exam, its utterly insane and a total waste of money, far better using the money in Education elsewhere.

I don't agree, if we were thrown into the leaving cert with no previous experience the pressure would be a lot greater.