Smoking on Hospital grounds.

pitkan

I have done a search and can find no cross references to any posts on the above title, so I hope I`m not double threading. Yesterday I visited St.Vincents Hospital in Elm Park ,Dublin and after a lengthy outpatients visit I lit up after I left the building. On my way out of the grounds I was accosted by a member of staff who berated me having informed me that I could not smoke on the grounds. I told her she should go the whole hog and put a 5 km exclusion zone around the hospital. Soon after my hitlerite encounter I noticed a lady on a bench who was crying. When I inquired if I could help, she told me she had also received a tongue lashing from the same person and that she was on her way in to the hospital to visit her dying husband. The lady was wearing heavy makeup which, to me, seemed to be hiding the fact that she was not very well herself. The question I am asking is: Does this smoking ban in the hospital grounds carry any validity in law and also consider that the HSE is heavily funded by taxes derived from, among other things, cigarettes ? ADMIN. please move this thread.

The Recliner

OP I am moving this to the smoking forum, I honestly have no idea where the right place is for it but you might get the answers youa re looking for there

barrackali

Op, it's hospital policy all over the country...it's also only common sense.
Smoking should be banned on the grounds of all hospitals, but as it is you should use the designated areas.

testicle

barrackali wrote: »

Op, it's hospital policy all over the country...

It isn't. You've obviously never been to the Regional in Limerick, where just outside the front door is a smoking area. Portlaoise has a gazebo not 20 yards from the front door, for the same purpose.

OldGoat

Hospitals have designated smoking areas. If you smoke you should use that area. Smoking anywhere else is breach of their stated policy. The grounds surrounding the hospital may be used by patients in recovery trying to get a little exercise and fresh air.
You were smoking in the wrong place and causing discomfort and distress to someone else. You were in the wrong.
Next time stand outside the gate and blow the smoke back in. That'll learn 'em.

pitkan

I thank you all for your input so far but I was trying to ascertain if the total grounds restriction has any legality. The enforcer (the member of staff who berated me) stated that it was HSE policy, which is not the case (the ban) at nearby Loughlinstown Hospital. There is also a variety of petrol and diesel vehicles drawing up at the front door which are spewing out fumes which could be entering the foyer of the building. There is a similar type ban at Connolly Station whilst up to 3 trains (some with several engines running) are parked at platforms.

Buster_Gonnads

I didn't know that there was a ban in Connolly. What a good idea it should be in place in the grounds of all train stations. I'm a non smoker, and am sick of getting out of a train stuck behind a crowd of people and the ignorant p***k in front of me lights up as soon as he/she has exited the train. Forcing everyone around them to breathe in their fumes stink their clothes!

OldGoat

Buster, read the forum charter. This is NOT the place to berate smokers.

Pitkin, I've no idea as to the legality of the smoking ban in the hospital grounds but I have a feeling that if you ever tried to take a case to court that you'd get no sympathies or support from the judiciary.

You can't compare the fumes of vehicles to that of smoking in the case of the hospital or the train station. Transport is to be a necessity to the functioning of the hospital and the station so banning engines without having anything else to put in their place is a stalemate argument. However, banning smoking from the area is feasible and welcomed by most.

If you are looking for cause fight then consider the case of non-smokers taking up all the tables in the smoking areas now that the sun is shining.

pitkan

Buster, I may have been the ***** who lit up as we were exiting the train but until someone enforces the regulations then sorry. Oldgoat,I am merely trying to get opinion on whether this has any legal standing under say, a by-law which the HSE can enforce( I`m sure we must have people of the legal profession on here who are smokers) I wont be going as far as to challenge this in court but I have a sneaking suspicion that this is not legal.

si_guru

Surely any organisation has the right to ban smoking on it's property. The hospital is not a public place, so rules can implemented by it's owner or local management.

lord lucan

OldGoat wrote: »

If you are looking for cause fight then consider the case of non-smokers taking up all the tables in the smoking areas now that the sun is shining.

And they wave their hands frantically trying to clear the smoke like you're the one who shouldn't be there!:mad::mad:

BeerNut

pitkan wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is not legal.

It's perfectly legal, even if it's not illegal for you to smoke there.

pitkan

BeerNut wrote: »

It's perfectly legal, even if it's not illegal for you to smoke there.

Hi BeerNut. I`m trying to get my head around your statement that it is Perfectly Legal even if it is not illegal. The smoking ban applies to stop people smoking inside all public buildings which I have no problem with. The Hospital ground bit is, as far as I have so far encountered, exclusive to St. Vincents Hospital in Elm Park in Dublin. Though the dictator I encountered there had me to believe that it was HSE policy, and if so, then it can only be described as selective policy.

Traumadoc

Smoking causes many serious illnesses as we know, but it also can provide comfort to sick people who suffer withdrawal symptoms if they cannot get nicotine.

Perhaps hospitals should offer alternative nicotine delivery ( patches gums or smokless cigarettes) pro bono?

Banning smoking will just keep smokers with illness away from hospitals.

onemorechance

I think that if there are no signs stating that smoking on the grounds is forbidden, then they have no case legally. Obviously inside the building is illegal, and then the exclusion zone around the doors. Since you were leaving the grounds, then it was a bit much, but if you sparked up too close to the door, then that may be what annoyed the staff member.

BeerNut

pitkan wrote: »

Hi BeerNut. I`m trying to get my head around your statement that it is Perfectly Legal even if it is not illegal.

You smoking there is legal. If they tried to prosecute you for smoking, they would likely fail as HSE policy is not law.

Them telling you you can't smoke there is legal. If you brought them to court for a breach of your rights as a smoker, you would fail as you have no enshrined legal right to smoke anywhere.

You seem to be interpreting the smoking ban as a licence to smoke anywhere that smoking is not illegal. The law does not grant you any such licence.

miltonkrest

i work in a hospital and smoking is allowed in designated areas.

dont know about the legalities.

the_syco

testicle wrote: »

It isn't. You've obviously never been to the Regional in Limerick, where just outside the front door is a smoking area. Portlaoise has a gazebo not 20 yards from the front door, for the same purpose.

In Dublin, many of these gazebos have gotten knocked down, and smoking forbidden right outside the hospital. The reasoning is that it's harder to quit if people are smoking all around you.

Traumadoc wrote: »

Banning smoking will just keep smokers with illness away from hospitals.

The reasoning behind it is seemingly that "avoiding smoking improves the chances of patients’ recovery". If the smokers stay away from the hospital due to this, they're fools. As a smoker myself, not smoking in hospital seems to be common sense.

pitkan

onemorechance wrote: »

I think that if there are no signs stating that smoking on the grounds is forbidden, then they have no case legally. Obviously inside the building is illegal, and then the exclusion zone around the doors. Since you were leaving the grounds, then it was a bit much, but if you sparked up too close to the door, then that may be what annoyed the staff member.

I was midway between the Hospital doors and the Street pavement, about 100 yards away in the wide open fresh air. They have signs up as soon as you leave the pavement.

frantic190

Surely it wouldn't matter if you are outside, should of seen the Mater on Friday night when I was walking by, the little courtyard just outside the doors was jam packed with people smoking. And that is literally at the hospital doors.

Could of just been someone who was having a bad day and needed to lash out at someone.

mikemac

Nenagh Hospital is certainly not a busy hospital.
They don't have a smoking shed, people just stand by the front door and that includes staff

Don't agree with it myself, maybe a bench can be setup somewhere nearby.
But that's for the HSE to decide.

OP, you're on private property, their rules apply

The Hill Billy

Thanks all for the replies. Now let's get back to discussing the positives of Smoking.

HB

nesf

Psychiatric hospitals always have a nice little smoking shelter put aside for us. Might have something to do with 70%-90% of bipolar/schizophrenia sufferers being nicotine addicts though..

Shazanne

feelingstressed wrote: »

Nenagh Hospital is certainly not a busy hospital.
They don't have a smoking shed, people just stand by the front door and that includes staff

Don't agree with it myself, maybe a bench can be setup somewhere nearby.
But that's for the HSE to decide.

OP, you're on private property, their rules apply

Nenagh hospital is quite a busy hospital at times and they do have a smoking hut - its situated to the left of the front door. People are encouraged to use it and smoking at the front door of the hosital, which is where the ambulances arrive, is very much frowned upon.