Series 5, Episode 12 - "The Pandorica Opens"

Wibbs

mach1982 wrote: »

That would explain why the Tardis crashed landed there it felt an other was there . Amy could be another Timelord who wipe their memory like the Doctor and the Master did.

Romana anyone? Last I recall she stayed in another universe leaving Bakers doctor to traipse off on his own. There's been enough people from the past brought into the rejigged series and she was around as part of his life for a long time. Romana would be a shoe in. *crosses fingers*

exaisle

Did we ever discover who River killed?;)

anotherlostie

How come the assembled mass of baddies weren't after Davros when he was detonating the REALITY BOMB - that would have wiped them all out too. Other than that, I really enjoyed it. The reassembling Cyberman was a great character to scare the kids.

BlitzKrieg

i dont think its the dreamlord.

the episode with him was such a...distant echos episode hinting at horrors much further in the future then simply the end of the season its too early to harvest that bounty.

I'd be more inclined to either someone new thats been staring us in the face (river song? they meet, they fall out, they make up, they marry, she dies.) I mean there has been enough mud put on her name this season for her to push things in a bad way...even if not intentional.

though that doesnt explain the mystery voice.


Just to rattle off, most of the episodes this season have been nodded to in the finale, which ones havnt?

-pilot (return to amy's house)
-starship britain (painting in the queen's collection)
-Daleks ww2 (scientist/churchill find painting)
-crying angels (river song is notified)
-hungry earth (return of rory, among finale villains)
-vincent and the doctor (opens the episode)


So what has not been linked has been the vampires of venice, the dreamlord and the lodger.

What in them could tie to this finale? Dreamlord has been suggested. Nothing stands out with the vampires and the lodger did have the tardis acting up aswell.


edit: some good rumours can be seen her that make alot of sense to me (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Big_Bang)

mach1982

Just thinking about the episode , and the letters under "HELLO SWEETIE" are a clue .I though they were Greek letters, but after big googleing they are Greek numbers, which translate as

95 5 331090

Now if we remove all zeros we get 95 5 3319, turn the 9 up side down we get 6, turn the first and second 5 up side down it looks likes a 2. 26 /2/3319. A date ?

also I just notice that Amy Pond in date format is am/y/pond.


I need to sleep on this .

Pittens

Lol.

Anyone else think that the next episode will start with Amy waking up from a "dream", on her wedding day?

Busi_Girl08

mach1982 wrote: »

also I just notice that Amy Pond in date format is am/y/pond.

It all makes sense now...:pac:

Anywho, no. I'd say the next episode will start as The Eleventh Hour started; with Amelia. Maybe some alternative world where the Doctor did infact manage to come back in 5 minutes?

I'd say this could be the clincher, 2 alternative worlds that got mixed up. 2 TARDISes, 2 Doctors, 2 Amys, 2 timelines.
One world in which Amy missed out on years of adventures with the Doctor, because of some mysterious problem with the engines that messed up his coordinates (It wasn't the last time it sent them to the wrong time and place), and another where he comes back, collects her, and they go off to do some 'splorin, while simultaneously saving the world.

BlitzKrieg

holy sh*t

seriously go back and look at flesh and stone at around 18:15..its blatantly not the same doctor. This is what is happening in the finale!

Busi_Girl08

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

holy sh*t

seriously go back and look at flesh and stone at around 18:15..its blatantly not the same doctor. This is what is happening in the finale!

Didn't people say they could hear the TARDIS sound at certain points in different episodes?
Vampires in Venice comes to mind, just before the explosion, I think.

Ya see, this is why Moffat wipes the floor with Davies, Davies would just have a big fat shiny "DEUS EX MACHINA" button at the ready, or the Doctor would somehow manage to talk round/distract the alliance at the last second :rolleyes:
Oh, and Rose would randomly appear in the TARDIS and save River.

mach1982

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

edit: some good rumours can be seen her that make alot of sense to me (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Big_Bang)

Should have read those first make more sense.After reading them i have stronger feeling that Amy's house a Tardis. She or River is Time Lady

BlitzKrieg

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

holy sh*t

seriously go back and look at flesh and stone at around 18:15..its blatantly not the same doctor. This is what is happening in the finale!

!! Woah!! How did I not find that weird when I first watched it?!

Pittens

Well it is the same doctor with a different jacket. That said I dont think that this was a continuity error.....

queue eerie music.

mach1982

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

holy sh*t

seriously go back and look at flesh and stone at around 18:15..its blatantly not the same doctor. This is what is happening in the finale!

God your right , his watch I upside just like when they step out of tardis in Roman England.

Irishoz

What scene are you referring too?

Ginny

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

holy sh*t

seriously go back and look at flesh and stone at around 18:15..its blatantly not the same doctor. This is what is happening in the finale!

Just rewatched the clip there, Dr. appears, close up of his bare forearms as his hands touch amys hands, you then catch glimpses of his jacket collar and shoulders as he talks, when he vanishes it cuts to the Dr. walking with River through the forest with long shirt sleeves, with very obvious striped cuffs...

Pittens

Guys the "jacket" thing has been known for weeks.

K-9

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

holy sh*t

seriously go back and look at flesh and stone at around 18:15..its blatantly not the same doctor. This is what is happening in the finale!

Anybody see DW Confidential? There is a line in it that stuck with me.

mach1982

just looked at the part where the Cyberman arm tries to kill the Doctor and guess what you can see his arm ,no shirt !

Pittens

Pittens wrote: »

Guys the "jacket" thing has been known for weeks.

Yeah but what he tells her is much more chilling in retrospect to all that's happened since then.

BlitzKrieg

Didn't people say they could hear the TARDIS sound at certain points in different episodes?
Vampires in Venice comes to mind, just before the explosion, I think.

there is a strange sound noise at 35:49 but it might be just him releasing whats about to happen. or it could indeed tie in...

Pittens

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah but what he tells her is much more chilling in retrospect to all that's happened since then.

cough...

Penn

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

holy sh*t

seriously go back and look at flesh and stone at around 18:15..its blatantly not the same doctor. This is what is happening in the finale!

Bloody hell, I think you're onto something. (Putting this in spoilers just in case it does turn out to be true)

He says he's leaving, doesn't have his jacket on, then he comes over, tells Amy she needs to trust him and remember what he told her when she was 7, that it's never been more important, but you can kinda see that he has his jacket on. Then it cuts to the Doctor with Amy and the Bishop and he still doesn't have his jacket on.

Excellent find if this turns out to be true

EDIT: Sorry, I never knew about the whole 'jacket' discussion from before

BlitzKrieg

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Bloody hell, I think you're onto something. (Putting this in spoilers just in case it does turn out to be true)

He says he's leaving, doesn't have his jacket on, then he comes over, tells Amy she needs to trust him and remember what he told her when she was 7, that it's never been more important, but you can kinda see that he has his jacket on. Then it cuts to the Doctor with Amy and the Bishop and he still doesn't have his jacket on.

Excellent find if this turns out to be true

EDIT: Sorry, I never knew about the whole 'jacket' discussion from before

I didnt know it if it was discussed here before (no one mentioned it in this thread, and I wasnt a fan of hungry earth/cold blood for lengthy discussions about them. ANd I only brought it up cause the link I posted before hand kept mentioning a curious continuity error, so I had to take a look and its blatantly not an error.

mach1982

I think that we need go and watch all the episode again, as they seem all to be link in so way or another .

Pittens

Pittens wrote: »

cough...

Sssh I've had exams and have not been able to spend as much time as I'd like analysing Dr Who :P

mach1982

I found a transcript of the "the Eleventh Hour" http://rodneymckay1968.livejournal.com/9494.html

YA= Young Amy TD = the Doctor

TD: But I'll tell you something funny. If you knock this wall down, the crack would stay put, cause the crack isn't in the wall.

YA: Where is it then?

TD: Everywhere. In everything, it's a split in the skin of the world. Two parts of space and time that should never have touched... pressed together. Right here in the wall of your bedroom. Sometimes - can you hear-?

Now off to bed got an exciting week a head

VicNoir

I've no theories that haven't been espouced somewhere else before. Five year old Amy in The Eleventh Doctor -- the jacket in Flesh and Stone -- I think someone mentioned that the shadow seen in Amy's house in the first episode mightn't have been Prisoner Zero, but someone else.

I loved this episode. The Rory/Amy thing was heartbreaking, on both sides, and I liked how they brought Rory back - thoroughly agree with an earlier poster that we can now leave CGI bins behind us, much as we have farting aliens.

River's 'sorry my love' was wonderfully timed. The Doctor being shut away in the Pandorica was so perfectly terrible and would have been the perfect end to the series (though I feel the Doctor's true End may never come).

I have two minor points:

1) It is unlikely that whatever is controlling the TARDIS is the person River killed, as I'd imagine that a person would only be charged with crimes along their own personal timeline. Since River is in prison at this point, it can be (I think) assumed that she has at this point in her timeline already killed that person (unless she's in prison for other crimes, of course )

2) It's a minor point, but it was nice to see the reverse progression of River's blasé attitude towards spoilers since her first appearance.

In Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead [at her oldest], while she is very careful to ensure the Doctor doesn't discover spoilers, she takes a kind of perverse pleasure in knowing more than he does.

In The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone, she enjoys The Doctor giving away spoilers, and only vaguely chastises him for it, knowing that he knows he should have been more careful.

While, in The Pandorica Opens, she is quite quick to stop Amy from telling her about her future, perhaps due to the fact that she is younger and more nervous about the consequences than she will be later, when she has become more used to the dynamic.

Finally, while the episode did keep me on the edge of my seat (insert obligitory WOW! :eek: here), everyone knows that the hardest part about cliffhangers is following them up well.

However, Moffat has managed to pre-empt most people's thoughts throughout the entire season (revealing more about the cracks before people got sick of them, managing to add to the creepiness of the Weeping Angels without going overboard, killing Rory right after people assumed he was on board as a long-term companion), so I'm guessing he knows that people are expecting the kind of Deus Ex Machina that RTD used to pull and has gone the other direction, coming up with an ending that will make perfect sense (relatively speaking) not just in the context of The Pandorica Opens, but relating to the entire Series 5 as a whole.

While I have NO IDEA how he will manage to get The Doctor/River/Amy out of this, my anticipation for The Big Bang is at an all-time high for TV show cliffhangers.

Not really a spoiler, but many people don't like crazy theories, so here's mine: IF this universe is an alternate one to the one we know and live in, and the cracks in space and time are caused by the TARDIS, maybe the explosion of the TARDIS created the entire parallel universe, with cracks and all -- literally, The Big Bang.

norrie rugger

VicNoir wrote: »

I've no theories that haven't been espouced somewhere else before. Five year old Amy in The Eleventh Doctor -- the jacket in Flesh and Stone -- I think someone mentioned that the shadow seen in Amy's house in the first episode mightn't have been Prisoner Zero, but someone else.

I loved this episode. The Rory/Amy thing was heartbreaking, on both sides, and I liked how they brought Rory back - thoroughly agree with an earlier poster that we can now leave CGI bins behind us, much as we have farting aliens.

River's 'sorry my love' was wonderfully timed. The Doctor being shut away in the Pandorica was so perfectly terrible and would have been the perfect end to the series (though I feel the Doctor's true End may never come).

I have two minor points:

1) It is unlikely that whatever is controlling the TARDIS is the person River killed, as I'd imagine that a person would only be charged with crimes along their own personal timeline. Since River is in prison at this point, it can be (I think) assumed that she has at this point in her timeline already killed that person (unless she's in prison for other crimes, of course )

2) It's a minor point, but it was nice to see the reverse progression of River's blasé attitude towards spoilers since her first appearance.

In Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead [at her oldest], while she is very careful to ensure the Doctor doesn't discover spoilers, she takes a kind of perverse pleasure in knowing more than he does.

In The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone, she enjoys The Doctor giving away spoilers, and only vaguely chastises him for it, knowing that he knows he should have been more careful.

While, in The Pandorica Opens, she is quite quick to stop Amy from telling her about her future, perhaps due to the fact that she is younger and more nervous about the consequences than she will be later, when she has become more used to the dynamic.

Finally, while the episode did keep me on the edge of my seat (insert obligitory WOW! :eek: here), everyone knows that the hardest part about cliffhangers is following them up well.

However, Moffat has managed to pre-empt most people's thoughts throughout the entire season (revealing more about the cracks before people got sick of them, managing to add to the creepiness of the Weeping Angels without going overboard, killing Rory right after people assumed he was on board as a long-term companion), so I'm guessing he knows that people are expecting the kind of Deus Ex Machina that RTD used to pull and has gone the other direction, coming up with an ending that will make perfect sense (relatively speaking) not just in the context of The Pandorica Opens, but relating to the entire Series 5 as a whole.

While I have NO IDEA how he will manage to get The Doctor/River/Amy out of this, my anticipation for The Big Bang is at an all-time high for TV show cliffhangers.

Not really a spoiler, but many people don't like crazy theories, so here's mine: IF this universe is an alternate one to the one we know and live in, and the cracks in space and time are caused by the TARDIS, maybe the explosion of the TARDIS created the entire parallel universe, with cracks and all -- literally, The Big Bang.

Well the Alliance set a trap for the Doctor using Amy and her imagination as the basis.

Could they have done it too good? Could they have had Amy create her own Doctor?

And the real Doctor has been shadowing them, seeing how all this plays out?

Although this does not explain the voice, in the TARDIS. Unless Amy's mind is fighting back against all the intrusion. I think that she is a real girl, being manupilated by the alliance and not a creation of them.

pixelburp

norrie rugger wrote: »

Well the Alliance set a trap for the Doctor using Amy and her imagination as the basis.

Could they have done it too good? Could they have had Amy create her own Doctor?

And the real Doctor has been shadowing them, seeing how all this plays out?

Wouldn't that in effect be a "it was all a dream" cop-out? That the Doctor we were following wasn't actually the "real" one; I can't say that would feel like a good ending.

norrie rugger

pixelburp wrote: »

Wouldn't that in effect be a "it was all a dream" cop-out? That the Doctor we were following wasn't actually the "real" one; I can't say that would feel like a good ending.

Not really, if the real Doctor has been coming in and helping Amy at different times. Showing up in slightly different clothes