Series 5, Episode 12 - "The Pandorica Opens"

magic roundabou · 21-06-2010 10:08am

Does anyone know when they are reshowing saturdays eposide as i missed it also on sunday !! but its normally on again during the week but can not see it on any of the guides - it would be typical that the only one i miss is not replayed !!

thanks in advance

campo · 21-06-2010 10:14am

magic roundabou wrote: »

Does anyone know when they are reshowing saturdays eposide as i missed it also on sunday !! but its normally on again during the week but can not see it on any of the guides - it would be typical that the only one i miss is not replayed !!

thanks in advance

Its on tonight on BBC HD if you have it

magic roundabou · 21-06-2010 11:08am

nope do not have HD

norrie rugger · 21-06-2010 11:21am

BBC 3 on Friday

roar_ie · 21-06-2010 12:29pm

Irishoz wrote: »

Or you could just look at it here: [SNIP]

Thanks for that

magic roundabou · 21-06-2010 12:50pm

would normally be on bbc3 but for some reason its not on this week - but thanks for that link irishoz that will work great

pixelburp · 21-06-2010 12:54pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Not really, if the real Doctor has been coming in and helping Amy at different times. Showing up in slightly different clothes

Yeah but wouldn't that still involve a "fake" Doctor that we were following around? It's all a bit confusing, the cynic in me can't help but feel the payoff's not going to match the first part.

nicowa · 21-06-2010 2:04pm

Personally I've a feeling the heartbreak of Amy dying will allow Rory to evade his programming to help the doctor! Wouldn't that be something!

-

Also, I was at a work training day yesterday and we were told to turn to our partners to tell them something exciting. Obviously the only thing I could think of was the episode of Who. And while I was really nervous and both of us didn't really know what to say, as soon as I mentioned "well, I saw an episode of Doctor Who last night" - it quickly devolved into "Oh my God! I can't believe that happened" and "Oh My God! great episode". Poor thing, though... he thought it was the last episode in the series cos of the lack of "what's happening next week" at the end of the episode...

-
Ooooh, one more post off official "no-longer-a-lurker" status!

ixoy · 21-06-2010 2:17pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah but wouldn't that still involve a "fake" Doctor that we were following around? It's all a bit confusing, the cynic in me can't help but feel the payoff's not going to match the first part.

Or it could be the Doctor but further down his storyline. He needs to go back and fix up these areas. It would be in keeping with the sort of time-shenanigans he asked Amy to do in "The Lodger".

Busi_Girl08 · 21-06-2010 2:29pm

ixoy wrote: »

Or it could be the Doctor but further down his storyline. He needs to go back and fix up these areas. It would be in keeping with the sort of time-shenanigans he asked Amy to do in "The Lodger".

I still think it could be 2 realities that got mixed up. One where the Doctor takes 7 year old Amy after the 5 minute trip, and the other when he abandons her for 12 years.
That's maybe why Leadworth is so strange, and why Amy can't remember the Daleks/Cybermen. She and the world around he is isolated in time, until this error in time is healed.
She needs to have all these memories, the ones that seem to have been hidden/blocked from her. And she needs to *remember* them.
The Doctor himself said that if you remember something, then it will become real (or something)

Now either someone prevented that from happening (by making the Doctor miscalculate his travel in the Eleventh Hour) or this was just a rupture in time caused by the TARDIS explosion/crash in the regeneration (Hey, if complete obliteration of it causes the end of the universe, then surely a crash bang wallop would feck things up in the universe aswell)

Feck it. That's my theory :P

jasonb · 21-06-2010 2:36pm

As someone who hasn't been that impressed with this season, I have to say I really enjoyed this episode and am really looking forward to the next one!

Two questions that have occured to me though! Firstly, I enjoyed the start of the episode; Vincent does the painting, the English find it ( we'll ignore that it was in German occupied France and say the Resistance got it out ) and Churchill tries to ring the Doctor, is forwarded to River, who steals the painting from the Collection and then leaves a message for the Doctor in the Cliff to tell him where ( and when ) to meet her. But, what made the Doctor go to the Cliff where River's message was? From what I can remember, it just seemed to pop into his head to go there? It just seems a bit random that he'd decide to go there? Or am I missing something.

And secondly, how many of the Roman's are 'plastic' and created from Amy's memories? Is it just the volunteers and the leader, or all of them? Are we actually in 100 AD, or some other time? I just can't get it straight in my head, how many of the people are automatons and how many of them are real Romans in Britain?

Always with the questions...

J.

nicowa · 21-06-2010 2:43pm

jasonb wrote: »

As someone who hasn't been that impressed with this season, I have to say I really enjoyed this episode and am really looking forward to the next one!

Two questions that have occured to me though! Firstly, I enjoyed the start of the episode; Vincent does the painting, the English find it ( we'll ignore that it was in German occupied France and say the Resistance got it out ) and Churchill tries to ring the Doctor, is forwarded to River, who steals the painting from the Collection and then leaves a message for the Doctor in the Cliff to tell him where ( and when ) to meet her. But, what made the Doctor go to the cliffs where River's message was? From what I can remember, it just seemed to pop into his head to go there? It just seems a bit random that he'd decide to go there? Or am I missing something.

And secondly, how many of the Roman's are 'plastic' and created from Amy's memories? Is it just the volunteers and the leader, or all of them? Are we actually in 100 AD, or some other time? I just can't get it straight in my head, how many of the people are automatons and how many of them are real Romans in Britain?

Always with the questions...

J.

To the first question - River marks the spaceship home box - which she knows will eventually end up in a museum which she knows will eventually attract the attention of the Doctor.

Same with the cliff. It's pretty famous. Understatement. So she knows, or should know that it will eventually attract the attention of the Doctor... simple math!

And as to the second, I'd guess that it's pretty much only the 'volunteers' that are the automatons (or plastic whatevers) as I'd guess that there would have been more at Stonehenge just in case they were all needed. Not sure how fake the rest are...

Busi_Girl08 · 21-06-2010 2:45pm

jasonb wrote: »

As someone who hasn't been that impressed with this season, I have to say I really enjoyed this episode and am really looking forward to the next one!

Two questions that have occured to me though! Firstly, I enjoyed the start of the episode; Vincent does the painting, the English find it ( we'll ignore that it was in German occupied France and say the Resistance got it out ) and Churchill tries to ring the Doctor, is forwarded to River, who steals the painting from the Collection and then leaves a message for the Doctor in the Cliff to tell him where ( and when ) to meet her. But, what made the Doctor go to the cliffs where River's message was? From what I can remember, it just seemed to pop into his head to go there? It just seems a bit random that he'd decide to go there? Or am I missing something.

Wasn't that the place where they departed at the end of the Forest of Stone?
I guess there was just a bit of wibbly-wobbly... there. Although that doesn't explain why *she* put it there...
Maybe she gave some kind of cryptic clue in the message that only the Doctor would understand.

And secondly, how many of the Roman's are 'plastic' and created from Amy's memories? Is it just the volunteers and the leader, or all of them? Are we actually in 100 AD, or some other time? I just can't get it straight in my head, how many of the people are automatons and how many of them are real Romans in Britain?

Always with the questions...
J.

All the Romans that were present in Stonehenge were Autons, created from Amy's memories (the Ancient Romans book, the picture of her with Rory in the Roman suit, etc.
Everything involved in Saturday's episode was a plot by his enemies to lure him to the Pandorica

pixelburp · 21-06-2010 2:45pm

nicowa wrote: »

To the first question - River marks the spaceship home box - which she knows will eventually end up in a museum which she knows will eventually attract the attention of the Doctor.

Same with the cliff. It's pretty famous. Understatement. So she knows, or should know that it will eventually attract the attention of the Doctor... simple math!

And as to the second, I'd guess that it's pretty much only the 'volunteers' that are the automatons (or plastic whatevers) as I'd guess that there would have been more at Stonehenge just in case they were all needed. Not sure how fake the rest are...

They're all fake - when River finds the chldren's book on Roman Britain, we see an illustration that looks identical to the commander that River meets in the tent.

jasonb · 21-06-2010 3:00pm

So, if they're all fake, but we're definitely at Stonehenge, when are we? The Doctor says what year it is *after* he sees the Romans. If the Romans are fake, then his assumption of the year ( if that's what it is ) is wrong.

What got me thinking about this is that the Doctor, and River, know the 'myth' of the Pandorica, so obviously they've heard about it in their travels, but the myth could only have started once the Pandorica was created and the Doctor was put into it. I guess I was trying to figure out when the myth started, and that got me thinking about when is the episode set?

Please remind me of the 'spaceship home box' that River marks? Is that the thing the Doctor finds in the museum near the start of the season? If so, what does it have to do with him deciding to visit the Cliff? Thanks!

J.

The Recliner · 21-06-2010 3:04pm

jasonb wrote: »

Please remind me of the 'spaceship home box' that River marks? Is that the thing the Doctor finds in the museum near the start of the season? If so, what does it have to do with him deciding to visit the Cliff? Thanks!

J.

That is the one alright

She did that as she knew it would end up in a museum and he would see it eventually

Same with the cliffs, she knew he would go see it eventually, it doesn't matter when he sees it as she gives him a place and point in time for him to go too

jasonb · 21-06-2010 3:18pm

Ah, I know what you mean. It doesn't matter when he visits the Cliff, he'll still get to Stonehenge 'on time'. Just for the sake of us TV viewers he 'happened' to choose to visit the cliffs in this episode!

J.

Pittens · 21-06-2010 4:01pm

Just for the sake of us TV viewers he 'happened' to choose to visit the cliffs in this episode!

Correct. he could've taken years of his time to get to it ( and remember we are not seeing all the adventures they go on either). It didn't matter when he got to it as once he went back in time he sets the chain in motion to trap himself.

What confuses me is whether all these races have time travel. If not, how could they have captured the Doctor in 100AD. Thats the biggie. This thing needed to be set up across time.

norrie rugger · 21-06-2010 4:13pm

Pittens wrote: »

Correct. he could've taken years of his time to get to it ( and remember we are not seeing all the adventures they go on either). It didn't matter when he got to it as once he went back in time he sets the chain in motion to trap himself.

What confuses me is whether all these races have time travel. If not, how could they have captured the Doctor in 100AD. Thats the biggie. This thing needed to be set up across time.

Could be the reason behind the upstairs floor in "the Lodger"

Stark · 21-06-2010 4:17pm

The Daleks have time travel but the others don't as far as I know.

nicowa · 21-06-2010 4:49pm

Stark wrote: »

The Daleks have time travel but the others don't as far as I know.

Then that is definatly confusing as the other race - Silurans (sp?) - only met the Doctor 10 years after Amy's 'present'. So while they maybe understand the danger - unless they all travelled back in time, they aren't yet an enemy of his... (and even then only an enemy of the one or two who didn't like him).

Stark · 21-06-2010 4:57pm

I'm guessing either the Daleks gave them all "a lift" or the Doctor's not actually in 100AD, that someone re-routed the TARDIS to somewhere around present time and tricked the Doctor and River into thinking it was 100AD. Still fairly inconsistent though, the Silurians are supposed to be in hibernation and the Cybermen are supposed to be all but wiped out.

aidan_walsh · 21-06-2010 5:26pm

Well, we don't necessarily know when the plot was put into effect. Its possible that whoever instigated it may have gone through time to each race affected by the cracks (or the Doctor in this form) and got them involved.

As to who that was, I wonder would it be the Daleks and Cybermen (being the first two shown to have been effected by the crack).

pixelburp · 21-06-2010 6:51pm

Oooh, you know, if this finale is going to be based on a false reality, wouldn't it be wonderful if the mighty-morphin-power-daleks were part of that reality; so that when the reality disappears, the new daleks would go with it & we'd default back to the original design? Man that'd be sweet

Pittens · 21-06-2010 7:38pm

the new daleks would go with it & wed default back to the original design? Man that'd be sweet

I can see why you left that job in product marketing.

opr · 21-06-2010 8:00pm

Maybe I missed it but haven't seen anyone mention the speech The Doctor makes to Amy after she gives the ring back. He seems to be talking about far more than just remembering Rory.

"Doctor - Remember that night you flew away with me ?

Amy - Course I do

Doc - you asked me why I was taking you and I told you their wasn't a reason, I was lying

Amy - What so you did have a reason ?

Doc - Your house.

Amy - Pffftt My house

Doc - Too big too many empty rooms ...................

Doc - Does it ever bother you Amy that your life doesn't make any sense ?"

Opr

Banjo Fella · 21-06-2010 8:04pm

I'm actually starting to warm to the Mighty Morphin' Power Daleks after seeing them among the Doctor's other enemies. The new design is extremely tall and sturdy looking, which reflects their cold, self-aggrandising nature and absolute lack of humanity very well.

Anyway, as has been said, all the different races probably managed to converge around 102AD by thumbing a lift from the Daleks. They have formed an alliance, after all.

Oh, and just because I haven't said so yet in this thread - terrific episode. Absolutely can't wait for the conclusion! So sad to see Amy go, though, that was such a devastating scene. As was seeing the Doctor being dragged away, helpless to stop what his enemies wanted to prevent. =(

I didn't quite understand why the Alliance decided to use Amy's memories to formulate the plan. Did they choose to create Roman Autons so that the scenario would seem believable to both Amy and the Doctor? It just seemed as though their attention to detail was unnecessary. I'm guessing they created a clone of Rory so that Amy could be lured in and killed, in case she could discover a way of freeing the Doctor from the Pandorica.

Also, how did Auton Rory remember being killed by Restac in Cold Blood? His memories must have been based on Amy's subconscious memories of him, and the Alliance extracted those memories from Amy's home on her wedding day. But the last time she visited her house was after Flesh & Stone, at which point Rory was still alive! Confusing...

Pittens · 21-06-2010 9:10pm

Yeah, Opr, there is also that time they returned to the house ( when she snogged him end of Flesh and Stone). I dont have the transcript but he said that there was something very important about her, it all depended on her, and he needed to get her sorted. ( She agreed she needed to get sorted, that what she was trying to say).

Then they left just as the clock struck midnight on the 26th.

Pittens · 21-06-2010 9:13pm

Also, how did Auton Rory remember being killed by Restac in Cold Blood? His memories must have been based on Amy's subconscious memories of him, and the Alliance extracted those memories from Amy's home on her wedding day. But the last time she visited her house was after Flesh & Stone, at which point Rory was still alive! Confusing...

Yeah, and I think that Moffat is the kind of guy who is aware of these potential incongruities.

hope so. We may be very disappointed next week.

opr · 21-06-2010 9:43pm

Pittens wrote: »

Yeah, and I think that Moffat is the kind of guy who is aware of these potential incongruities.

hope so. We may be very disappointed next week.

Would be an awful kick if it all meant nothing. In the scene that the Doctor has different clothes you can even notice how he is different in mood and train of thought as he puts his hands on Amy's and speaks to her.

Opr

Series 5, Episode 12 - "The Pandorica Opens"

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