Foul snooker in pool

Brabazone

Hi yall, I know this has been covered a few times but I was playing pool last weekend at my local. While having a game with some friends of mine there was a dispute about a certain rule that I called because of a foul shot.

In order to explain I will set the seen, I had played my first shot and potted all my balls "yellow" except for one. My opponent came to the table to take his shot and played a snooker by rolling up to one of his balls in the middle of the table. I called a foul shot, he asked why and I said that "you did not hit a cushion either before or after with any ball" he asked "why is that a foul" I explained that a ball must either hit a cushion before or after he completes his shot or it is deemed to be a foul because there is no skill required to play the shot he just played". He disagreed and said that he never heard of the rule before this and that I was more or less making up the rules because I was angry at him for the way he played. I told him I would play the my shot by his rules but to look here on boards before the weekend to see the views of people that play the game regularly and know the rules inside out.

So here it is guys, If a few of you could do me the pleasure and explain to the uneducated the proper rules of pool I would appreciate it.:D

BTW, sorry for the long sentences, I know it makes for sh!t reading.

brophya2007

I must say that I have never heard of this rule before, but I would be hapy to adopt as I dislike people playing snooker shots in a game of pool.

Melion

Ive never heard of that rule either

Garda S Horgan

There may be a rule on the break off that 3 balls need to hit the cushion. There are some pool games that requires a ball to hit a cushion, but in most pub pool games it's perfectly ok to roll up to a ball and the whole hitting the cushion issue does not matter.
If that was the case then even attempting to pot a ball dead weight, rolling it up to the pocket without hitting a cushion would be a foul if the ball didn't drop in, and the pub game would be in ruins.

Yours etc,
GSH.

Brabazone

Garda S Horgan wrote: »

There may be a rule on the break off that 3 balls need to hit the cushion. There are some pool games that requires a ball to hit a cushion, but in most pub pool games it's perfectly ok to roll up to a ball and the whole hitting the cushion issue does not matter.
If that was the case then even attempting to pot a ball dead weight, rolling it up to the pocket without hitting a cushion would be a foul if the ball didn't drop in, and the pub game would be in ruins.

Yours etc,
GSH.

That would only apply if you snookered while playing the shot, so rolling up to a ball dead weight in normal play wouldn't count unless you missed and snookered by accident. You would be surprised when playing pool how infrequent that actually happens if you observer the game, "almost never".

I play the game regular by this rule and it makes the game much more playable, when you think of the difference between a good player and a poor player then you see the difference. A good player will take his chances and try and clear the table with as little visits as possible, in some cases they may pot all or most of the balls on the table with one visit. If they do leave a ball or two on the table a poor player is at the advantage if they decide to roll up to balls and snooker even when they have clear chances to win the game. That was the main reason the this rule was ever introduced to the game, long before I ever I started playing. I have being play the game since I was nine or ten and this is the way most of my friends have always played the game. I am now 38 and still play by this rule.

I was in a pub in Dublin a couple of months ago and we decided to have a few games, we asked what the house rule was and it was the same rule I play by.

steder

Brabazone you are right it is a foul when playing world rules (the best rules).

Here is a link to the rules its in there somewhere;)


http://www.irishpoolassociation.ie/Rules.htm

Omega28

this rule u speak of is played in american 9 ball, I know its played sometimes in english 8 ball so technically your "uneducated" friend wasn't wrong, he just plays a different rule.

I'm like yourself though I prefer to play that rule myself, more skilled involved and makes the game more enjoyable:)

giant_midget

I would consider this a foul (and bad manners) considering the size of a pool table it is not right to roll up to a ball like that, you say you potted all but one of your balls, So he had a table with 7 reds 1 black and 1 yellow and he still could not pot a ball...what's the world coming to.....

Dave147

Dylanmc111 wrote: »

this rule u speak of is played in american 9 ball, I know its played sometimes in english 8 ball so technically your "uneducated" friend wasn't wrong, he just plays a different rule.

I'm like yourself though I prefer to play that rule myself, more skilled involved and makes the game more enjoyable:)

I agree with everything up until you said sometimes, it is played in both American 9 ball and 8 ball. It is a rule in the EPA World Rules, the other main set of rules are the old EPA European Rules. World Rules have now taken over in all serious types of competitive pool and I hope it becomes more mainstream in pubs. I have a thread going now where I have a dispute with a friend over 2 shots on the black. I know I have 2 in european rules he doesnt.

Can't seem to find it written anywhere but I'll get onto someone in the Federation.

Engelbert

American a.k.a. YAHOO rules

No foul on these shores

Gaunty

I don't understand all of the complaining about snookers in pool. Anyone can go in and pot balls and go for finishes. I find the real skill is in outsmarting your opponent by tactical play and playing snookers which develop dead balls for future finishes while getting yourself two shots. It's a part of the game and the elitism where people who think opponents who snooker are weaker is wrong.

But on topic, i know the rules your opponent was talking about. I have played those rules a lot, i'm not a huge fan of world rules although i am competent enough to play them because they are the standard in tournaments now. But your average pool player in the pub would not know any of the world rules, at least in the part of the country i am in.

Brabazone

Gaunty wrote: »

I don't understand all of the complaining about snookers in pool. Anyone can go in and pot balls and go for finishes. I find the real skill is in outsmarting your opponent by tactical play and playing snookers which develop dead balls for future finishes while getting yourself two shots. It's a part of the game and the elitism where people who think opponents who snooker are weaker is wrong.

But on topic, i know the rules your opponent was talking about. I have played those rules a lot, i'm not a huge fan of world rules although i am competent enough to play them because they are the standard in tournaments now. But your average pool player in the pub would not know any of the world rules, at least in the part of the country i am in.

I agree with you that the tactical part of the game can be very enjoyable and is part of the game that requires skill that some players do not have. However, players that deem themselves more of a potter that a tactician are more often than not better players all round especially if they can play the positional aspect of the game. My personal style of play is more all rounded, encompassing both aspect of the game which brings me to my point, why would a player play a snooker "forgetting the fact that it is a foul snooker" when they could easily pot balls which is the object of the game.

I don't think anyone here is relay saying that they totally disagree with snookering in pool. I think the real issue is the manner in which snookers are played. If a player plays a snooker just by rolling the white ball a couple of inches up the the object ball and doesn't make contact with a cushion "or any ball", well I find that shameful, it requires no skill to play that shot. However when a player snookers by means of contact with the cushion I applaud them, they obviously played a decent shot and I will view it for what it is "a good and fair shot".

BTW I have checked the rules on this type of shot and it is totally illegal to snooker by just rolling up and not playing the cushions.

DeanW17

in thepub leaguepool the shot your friend played IS a foul...you must hit a cushion or pot a ball with everyshot

Dave147

I wouldn't agree the object of the game is simply potting balls, its to win by whatever means necessary. If I'm on for 6 of my colour but the 7th one is completely tied up with no realistic chance of getting a good cannon then I'll simply try and tie up the black and/or one if his ball balls and get a good safety.

I would play an excellent potter over an equally excellent tactician any day of the week. Ask any serious pool player that and you can be sure they'll agree. I recently beat a buddy of mine 10-0 and 10-3 and he claimed to be a brilliant pool player, yeah he could pot 4 or 5 balls in succession but he had no brain for the game which meant that he was only potting balls when I wanted him to. I just picked him apart with clever snookers and development shots. Now I had a good few clearances from the break as well but I was just as proud of my tactics.

Rabble rabble rabble tl;dr!

Brabazone

Dave147 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree the object of the game is simply potting balls, its to win by whatever means necessary. If I'm on for 6 of my colour but the 7th one is completely tied up with no realistic chance of getting a good cannon then I'll simply try and tie up the black and/or one if his ball balls and get a good safety.

I would play an excellent potter over an equally excellent tactician any day of the week. Ask any serious pool player that and you can be sure they'll agree. I recently beat a buddy of mine 10-0 and 10-3 and he claimed to be a brilliant pool player, yeah he could pot 4 or 5 balls in succession but he had no brain for the game which meant that he was only potting balls when I wanted him to. I just picked him apart with clever snookers and development shots. Now I had a good few clearances from the break as well but I was just as proud of my tactics.

Rabble rabble rabble tl;dr!

Sorry, but I just don't agree with you. The object of pool is to pot balls, if you don't believe me heres a quote form The Irish Pool Association,

D. Object of the Game

The object of the game is to win by being the first player to Pot a group of colours in any order and in any pocket and the Pot the Eight-Ball in any pocket.

I know that a very simplistic view of pool but that is the essence of the game, potting balls.

If you compare both the game of pool and snooker most would think of them as a similar game just because of the obvious similarity's, however I'm not going to go into in detail here because it would take to long. What I will say is that the object of the game of snooker is to score points. It is actually possible to win a game of snooker without ever potting a ball. I know it is highly unlikely that it would happen but none the less, it is possible.

In the game of pool it is not possible to win without potting balls unless a foul is committed that is deemed serious enough to lose the game. While this can and often does happen the underlying object of the game remains, to pot your balls and then pot the black ball to win.

As I have said in previous posts, I have no problem with snookering in pool as long as the shot is played as it should be. However when a player snookers me by not playing the cushions I have absolutely no respect for them. BTW I'm not saying that you would do this, you sound like you know the game and from the sound of it I would imaging you are a very capable player.

If you ever down my side of the country give us a shout and we will have a few games:)

Dave147

Potting balls is like a sub-object of the game, the true object is to win. It's actually far more likely to win a game of pool without potting a ball than in snooker. Anyway that's all irrelevant, my main point is that aimlessly potting the balls is not a good strategy, if I have a red hanging over the pocket but I can see a shot whereby I can develop a few reds, then bring the white off a cushion or two up the table and hide it. I want to win the game in one visit and I don't mind playing a risky cannon as long as it's not going to be a game losing one.

I play World Rules almost exclusively, there is skill involved in the safety I play, I play European Rules against people for the craic if they don't know World. I played as a junior for Cork despite the team being a complete shambles! I played for UCC 'A' in the intervarsities and have been in two All Ireland Semi's, lost the last one on the black at 2-2 to Graham Baitson, who is pro now I think that was a tough one!

If you're ever in Cork let me know I'd love a new opponent

unit 1

DeanW17 wrote: »

in thepub leaguepool the shot your friend played IS a foul...you must hit a cushion or pot a ball with everyshot

Unless you yourself are snookered, in which case you call a total snooker, and do not have to hit a cushion after hitting your own ball.
In OP's case I think his opponent is allowed to commit a "deliberate foul", but pays the price of allowing OP place the white anywhere behind the baulk line as he has snookered him afaik.

dermo88

Playing out in Asia, and having played recreationally in Malaysia (mostly), Thailand and Hong Kong, they use the rules for British pool. Snookers are part and parcel of the game, love them or loathe them.

There are players who play strategically, and those who will pot without considering the next shot, tracking, and thinking ahead. The players who block pockets, prevent pots, play strategically by blocking their opponent are those who win in 7 out of 10 cases.

It took me 9 months of playing their style in a local pub to learn. In Ireland and England that style is regarded as being bitchy or cruel. In Asia, its perfectly acceptable.

The Caribbean plays a variation, where the final shot on black has to be a rebound for the pot.

monosharp

I play this rule but it's slightly more strict here. You must always hit a cushion with either ball regardless of if it's a snooker shot or not.

i.e if you go for a pot and the target ball stops before going down and neither ball hit the cushion it's still a foul.

I think it's a great rule actually.

unit 1

Of course playing John Higgins would be a totally different game altogether.;)