OUTRAGED AT PISTOL PHOTO'S

fiattech

Hi can I have your thought's, opinions and views on this one.

After a day of shooting my seven year old son love's nothing more than to help me clean the gun. We always clean it in my bedroom and i have lots of rules regarding safety, for example we call the wall where my wardrobe is "Down Range" and the muzzle always points in that direction, I always lock away any rounds i have before i even open the box containing my pistol and I check the firearm itself for safety then my son insists on checking himself. Last sunday after I used my pistol it was time to clean it and after safety checking was done i handed it to my son along with a cloth. While he was cleaning it i took some photo's and posted them on my Facebook wall "not such a good idea" to say some people got a bit upset is an under statment. I got comment's like "This is wrong wrong wrong" and " All i see is a seven year old with a gun accidents happen" To which i replied "This is not wrong, kids outside head shops at 4am is wrong, kids in stolen cars is wrong and kids downing a full bottle of vodka and mugging some old deer is wrong" After which my "friend" deleted me and my wife from her list of friends Boo Hoo. My question to you is Do you think i was wrong to let my boy hold my pistol ?
Your thoughts on this one please.

Thanks

KeithM89_old

As long as the gun was 'safe' and being used in a proper environment i dont see the big fuss. Like you said, he didnt shoot it and was under supervision.
Mountain out of a molehill i think

Sparks

I think perhaps I'd be more worried about putting publicly-accessible images of my seven year old son on facebook to be honest. There are some nasty people out there...


That said, regardless of ethical considerations, it's arguable that you're not legally allowed let him hold the pistol, at least in the ROI, unless you're at the range.

And that said, it's been my experience with every last niece and nephew I've got that the second you say they aren't allowed to go near something, that something becomes the holy grail...

fiattech

I have removed the photo's for security reasons ONLY and not because what people think.

simonmurphyeire

not the best choice of photo to put on facebook...

deeksofdoom

Jaysus thats weird isn't it, who would have thought that anyone could find anything wrong with a child holding a gun on facebook. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

poulo6.5

fiattech wrote: »

Hi can I have your thought's, opinions and views on this one.

After a day of shooting my seven year old son love's nothing more than to help me clean the gun. We always clean it in my bedroom and i have lots of rules regarding safety, for example we call the wall where my wardrobe is "Down Range" and the muzzle always points in that direction, I always lock away any rounds i have before i even open the box containing my pistol and I check the firearm itself for safety then my son insists on checking himself. Last sunday after I used my pistol it was time to clean it and after safety checking was done i handed it to my son along with a cloth. While he was cleaning it i took some photo's and posted them on my Facebook wall "not such a good idea" to say some people got a bit upset is an under statment. I got comment's like "This is wrong wrong wrong" and " All i see is a seven year old with a gun accidents happen" To which i replied "This is not wrong, kids outside head shops at 4am is wrong, kids in stolen cars is wrong and kids downing a full bottle of vodka and mugging some old deer is wrong" After which my "friend" deleted me and my wife from her list of friends Boo Hoo. My question to you is Do you think i was wrong to let my boy hold my pistol ?
Your thoughts on this one please.

Thanks

as far as i'm concerned you were dead right not to bow to that person that made that comment, i would have done pritty much the same as you.
its much better to introduce something like a gun to a youngster in the exact way, ie with supervision and respect for what it is. it will stand to him in years to come.
well done;)

ivanthehunter

Kids and Guns!! on facebook!!:eek:

Bad move here! Might be better received in US culture with its sporting gun culture, where gun maintenance is seen as a camp craft and not a taboo subject..........

Have you not seen the backlashs on this site from time to time and that between gun lovers!! over similar acts..

Its not your problem but that typical response is the general reaction when people see these types of photos. Photos that paint an instant emotive image their head and which is all too often far far from right. They can't appreciate the level of control and safety that you implement when firearms and your Child met under their supervision. I can't admit to being comfortable seeing a firearm in the hands of a child but the boy is you son and its you right..

Its a touché subject and best to keep it on a need to know type system.

jwshooter

remember what happened to a well known clay shooter from limerick ,when his son was pictured with a shot gun a few years ago at the NARGC all ireland shoot .

same chap won a medal in the world DTL championships in south Africa not to long ago .

my point this should be keep in house .

Sparks

fiattech wrote: »

I have removed the photo's for security reasons ONLY and not because what people think.

You don't actually have to remove them - just set the privacy levels so that only people you know can see them. It's like your family's photo albums - you'd show them to friends, but you'd balk and pinning them to the noticeboard in the local supermarket.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

my point this should be keep in house .

In fairness jw, that's damn near physically impossible today. We live in a panopticon world, and if you're not caught on one of your own family's cameras, it'll be on some random kid's cameraphone and all over facebook inside of an hour. And that genie's never getting back in the bottle.

deeksofdoom

Sparks wrote: »

In fairness jw, that's damn near physically impossible today. We live in a panopticon world, and if you're not caught on one of your own family's cameras, it'll be on some random kid's cameraphone and all over facebook inside of an hour. And that genie's never getting back in the bottle.

So what's your point Sparks? Is it wise to post pictures of your kids with guns on a public domain. Do you think that your local super would consider it responsible gun ownership?

BELOWaverageIQ

Very bad judgement in my opinion.
I understand you trying to normalize firearms with your son but personally I believe 7 is too young and posting photographs is lunacy.

Sparks

deeksofdoom wrote: »

So what's your point Sparks?

That the idea that you can take your kids to an open public competition and have them shoot their own firearm which you've bought and licenced under your name, and somehow think that you can keep all of that under wraps, is a bit naive in the modern world. It was naive twenty years ago as well - we live in Ireland, the land where gossip is an organised national sport - but these days it gets out a lot faster.

There are guidelines, by the way, for the organisers of these events so that some photos can be taken - but it's a lot of manpower to implement them properly and it requires a lot of rules; for example, no cameraphones allowed in the building, no family cameras allowed, official press passes required, official cameras have to be confiscated after an event and the photos examined for anything untoward... there's a lot to be done there. The Sports Council runs training courses for this sort of thing.

And even at that, photos get out...

Is it wise to post pictures of your kids with guns on a public domain.

It is perhaps unwise to post pictures of your kids on a public domain. The guns aspect of it is a complete red herring.

Do you think that your local super would consider it responsible gun ownership?

I doubt he would, but it wouldn't be why he'd act on it - he'd act on it because it's illegal to do (your children do not have automatic licence to carry your firearm except in certain highly restricted scenarios).

deeksofdoom

Sparks wrote: »

That the idea that you can take your kids to an open public competition and have them shoot their own firearm which you've bought and licenced under your name, and somehow think that you can keep all of that under wraps, is a bit naive in the modern world. It was naive twenty years ago as well - we live in Ireland, the land where gossip is an organised national sport - but these days it gets out a lot faster.

There are guidelines, by the way, for the organisers of these events so that some photos can be taken - but it's a lot of manpower to implement them properly and it requires a lot of rules; for example, no cameraphones allowed in the building, no family cameras allowed, official press passes required, official cameras have to be confiscated after an event and the photos examined for anything untoward... there's a lot to be done there. The Sports Council runs training courses for this sort of thing.

And even at that, photos get out...

Okay I don't think that there is anything wrong with a child participating in an event such as you have described above. I wouldn't have a problem bringing my young one out for an hour or two shooting when she is old enough. if that's what she wanted to do.
However what I do find objectionable is the image of a child sitting on a bed holding a pistol or any type of firearm in their own home. How many children have accidentally shot themselves in their own homes when they've been just having a look at there fathers gun.

Sparks

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Okay I don't think that there is anything wrong with a child participating in an event such as you have described above.

I don't either. And there have been minors participating in shooting competitions in Ireland since the founding of the state, without any of them ever getting hurt. So it's a low-risk activity; certainly far lower than, say, GAA (and anyone who thinks that's silly should remember I'm from Kerry and the first lesson we got in secondary school was how to relocate our fingers in case catching the ball went wrong - or they could remember that the Sports Council are getting worried at the high incidence of muscle injuries in teenage GAA players cause by too much gym work at too young an age...)

However what I do find objectionable is the image of a child sitting on a bed holding a pistol or any type of firearm in their own home. How many children have accidentally shot themselves in their own homes when they've been just having a look at there fathers gun.

Too many, which is why there's a risk in banning them from ever going near them and not teaching them about firearms and how dangerous they can be.

I would guess, however, that very few children have accidentally shot themselves while just having a look at their father's gun with that father looking on and photographing them.

knockon

Yes I think you were wrong. You asked me what I thought, well I think the last thing any of us need in this Country is to have pictures posted on an internet site (Privacy on or not makes no difference) of a 7 year old with a pistol in his hand.

Our sport is all about public perception. You have not done youself or us any favours on that one. (Putting photographs in Cyberspace)

I also have a young Boy. I hope when he is 7 the closest thing he gets to a gun at that age is playing cowboys and indians - he certainly wont be assisting me cleaning any of my firearms. Even if I did decide to I would not be taking photographs.

Some things are best kept out of the Public Eye

Just my opinion which you asked for.

deeksofdoom

Sparks wrote: »

Too many, which is why there's a risk in banning them from ever going near them and not teaching them about firearms and how dangerous they can be.

I would guess, however, that very few children have accidentally shot themselves while just having a look at their father's gun with that father looking on and photographing them.

That's fine but what happens if someone with less sense than ourselves, reads your last post and thinks that its fine to let his kids handle his firearms coz one of the mods on boards says it will teach them how to properly handle firearms.

Could you stand over what you've posted in court?

LongGun

fiattech wrote: »

Hi can I have your thought's, opinions and views on this one.

You've made three mistakes today.
First you took pictures of your seven year old boy holding your pistol.
Second you put the pictures on Facebook.
Third you came in here and told everyone about it.

tommyboy26

imho posting the photos on facebook was the totally wrong thing to do i wouldnt let any photos of me holdin my firearms to be posted on the internet purely for security reasons but do i think its wrong that you let your son help you clean your firearm after its been made totally safe and your behind closed doors in your own home of course not when my sons are old enough i too will teach them how to clean my firearms at least then they will know from an early age to respect them and how to handle them safely....

but thats just my opinion


tommy

Dvs

I see two problems with this situation,

1.Using facebook.

2.Posting photos of your children in the public domain.


People would never make a notice board and attach it to the outside of the front door of their home,
type up private information about themselves and their family and have people walking by stop and read it.

Or print off photos of their children, and hand them out to strangers they meet in the street.

Yet this is exactly what they do on social networking sites,
to a far wider audience.

Dvs.

deerhunter1

fiattech wrote: »

Hi can I have your thought's, opinions and views on this one.

After a day of shooting my seven year old son love's nothing more than to help me clean the gun. We always clean it in my bedroom and i have lots of rules regarding safety, for example we call the wall where my wardrobe is "Down Range" and the muzzle always points in that direction, I always lock away any rounds i have before i even open the box containing my pistol and I check the firearm itself for safety then my son insists on checking himself. Last sunday after I used my pistol it was time to clean it and after safety checking was done i handed it to my son along with a cloth. While he was cleaning it i took some photo's and posted them on my Facebook wall "not such a good idea" to say some people got a bit upset is an under statment. I got comment's like "This is wrong wrong wrong" and " All i see is a seven year old with a gun accidents happen" To which i replied "This is not wrong, kids outside head shops at 4am is wrong, kids in stolen cars is wrong and kids downing a full bottle of vodka and mugging some old deer is wrong" After which my "friend" deleted me and my wife from her list of friends Boo Hoo. My question to you is Do you think i was wrong to let my boy hold my pistol ?
Your thoughts on this one please.

Thanks

No absolutely not, you were correct and responsible in your actions and I commend you for it

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

That the idea that you can take your kids to an open public competition and have them shoot their own firearm which you've bought and licenced under your name, and somehow think that you can keep all of that under wraps, is a bit naive in the modern world. It was naive twenty years ago as well - we live in Ireland, the land where gossip is an organised national sport - but these days it gets out a lot faster.

There are guidelines, by the way, for the organisers of these events so that some photos can be taken - but it's a lot of manpower to implement them properly and it requires a lot of rules; for example, no cameraphones allowed in the building, no family cameras allowed, official press passes required, official cameras have to be confiscated after an event and the photos examined for anything untoward... there's a lot to be done there. The Sports Council runs training courses for this sort of thing.

And even at that, photos get out...

It is perhaps unwise to post pictures of your kids on a public domain. The guns aspect of it is a complete red herring.


I doubt he would, but it wouldn't be why he'd act on it - he'd act on it because it's illegal to do (your children do not have automatic licence to carry your firearm except in certain highly restricted scenarios).

is it not illegal to use images of some ones children with out consent

Sparks

deeksofdoom wrote: »

That's fine but what happens if someone with less sense than ourselves, reads your last post and thinks that its fine to let his kids handle his firearms coz one of the mods on boards says it will teach them how to properly handle firearms.

That's not what the mods said. What I said is that just locking it away and saying it's forbidden is one of the fastest ways to make a child pick it as the focus of their entire existance.

Could you stand over what you've posted in court?

Over what I've posted? Yes. Over what some random idiot makes up in his own head and claims I've posted? Probably not.

cursai

knockon wrote: »

Oh Gawddddd!!!!!!!!

Sound like a Chief Super or someone who drifted in from their anti gun lobby meeting.

Are you trying to justify someone posting a photo of their child with a usable firearm on a public site. This isn't a 50cent video:p

Sparks

Dvs wrote: »

I see two problems with this situation,
1.Using facebook.

Thing about facebook is, it's how I keep track of my siblings and family and friends who are too far away to meet face-to-face.
The problem with facebook is not facebook.
The problem with facebook is not understanding and setting privacy settings.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

is it not illegal to use images of some ones children with out consent

In Ireland? No, not unless it's for commercial purposes. There are guidelines for their use, but the kind of people who follow guidelines are not the kind of people you have to worry about.

jwshooter

its pretty obvious you dont know any thing about firearms ,also there not weapons in our hands any .

Sparks

cursai wrote: »

Are you trying to justify someone posting a photo of their child with a usable firearm on a public site. This isn't a 50cent video:p

Cursai, if you have an opinion that's different from the other posters, that's fine, but be civil or be banned.

cursai

Sparks wrote: »

Cursai, if you have an opinion that's different from the other posters, that's fine, but be civil or be banned.

How was i not civil???

knockon

You always know when a member of An Garda Siochana by

a) Using the words "lethal weapons"
b) Checking their older posts where they actually say they are members.

Wecome to the shooting forum. Opinions welcome not Trolls.