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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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OUTRAGED AT PISTOL PHOTO'S

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    #122
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Whats the story with the Butchers apron?;)
    Wot, cos the Chef's hat is totally understandable?! :)

    Sparks, every time I think you can't get any weirder, you up your game.....

    DeV.


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    #123
    Dusty87
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭Dusty87


    DeVore wrote: »
    Wot, cos the Chef's hat is totally understandable?! :)

    Sparks, every time I think you can't get any weirder, you up your game.....

    DeV.

    You're in with the admins anyway Sparks;)


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    #124
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    DeVore wrote: »
    Sparks, every time I think you can't get any weirder, you up your game.....
    Why does everyone who's seen my mascot say that?


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    #125
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, not the mascot, please not the mascot I'm still in therapy.


    Ummm, on topic, umm, kids yes, not the mascot, kids thread, guns and kids = no. Mascot = NO.

    DeV.


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    #126
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Sparks wrote: »
    Why does everyone who's seen my mascot say that?

    I have a little Loch Ness Monster which always sat on the firing line with me. Drove one of my colleagues nuts, she was a left-handed shooter, and kept complaining that whenever she faced Nessie she was put off her game.

    NTM


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    #127
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Do tell what exactly is your experiance Jill ??Army or Police??

    Army, and I got within a couple of centimetres of having the head taken off me by a professional soldier who wasn't paying as much mind as he should have been on at least one occasion - so I freely admit I'm possibly a bit more cranky on the issue than many might be.

    I'm not going to preach to anybody about what age is appropriate for their kid to start getting familiar with guns, I just object to presenting a gun as being no more than a piece of sport's gear. "Like a tennis racket" was the suggestion earlier. And I don't mean to pick on that particular thing, but it's an attitude I see around and I find it alarming.

    I'm not saying most gun owners aren't safe and that's great - but I just feel that often, gun owners/users overcompensate when it comes to downplaying whatever potential risk there actually is so as to present a smiley face on their pursuits to non-gun types. Apart from anything else I don't think it ultimately does anybody any favours, least of all gun owners in the eyes of Joe Public, to refer to firearms in such casual terms, regardless of how much respect I'm sure we all give them in practice.


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    #128
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    I just object to presenting a gun as being no more than a piece of sport's gear.
    Not to be rude, but would you not accept that perhaps your professional training has left you with a degree of bias towards firearms and their uses? I'd happily call a Steyr Aug held by a soldier a weapon; but that doesn't mean that my air rifle is one.


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    #129
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    I have seen lads & ladies who I would trust with my life with any firearm/weapon, including myself, to make mistakes or have lapses in concentration with firearms that fortunately did not result in injury or worse to themselves, myself or others. IMHO "familarity breeds contempt" and the more people handle firearms the more likely they are to simply get lacksadazy with them at times. It's human nature.

    Whether a firearm is looked upon as a weapon or a piece of sports equipment is irrevelant IMHO. If someone gets shot it won't matter whether it was called a firearm or a weapon, the result will be the same.

    Firearm/weapon should/can be used in the context of what the rifle, shotgun or pistol is being used for. If I use my .22lr to shoot a bunny it could be called a weapon, especially as far as the bunny is concerned :rolleyes:, and if I use it to shoot at a paper target it could be called a firearm, assuming the paper target has no propensity to feel pain, which is open to question after a recent thread here :p. This to me is just more of the PC crap were are subjected to nowadays. A rifle is a rifle, a shotgun is a shotgun and a pistol is a pistol. They are no more dangerous than a golf club. It's how they are used that could make them dangerous, same as a golf club................


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    #130
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Sparks wrote: »
    Not to be rude, but would you not accept that perhaps your professional training has left you with a degree of bias towards firearms and their uses?

    Very possibly, but I think Bunny Shooter hit the nail on the head. If it's a question of carelessness, it doesn't really matter what a firearm was bought for.

    I mean, the worst thing that careless misuse of a tennis racket is likely to produce is Tim Henman, there's just a lot less room for error in any firearm context.


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    #131
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 15,025 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    Army, and I got within a couple of centimetres of having the head taken off me by a professional soldier who wasn't paying as much mind as he should have been on at least one occasion - so I freely admit I'm possibly a bit more cranky on the issue than many might be.

    And well you should be.I hope that clown was told to drop and give the DI 60 pushups there and then.However,be as it may,It is hardly the guns fault rather the idiot behind it.The gun is inanimate like anything else,it needs human interface to make it dangerous or safe.

    I'm not going to preach to anybody about what age is appropriate for their kid to start getting familiar with guns, I just object to presenting a gun as being no more than a piece of sport's gear. "Like a tennis racket" was the suggestion earlier. And I don't mean to pick on that particular thing, but it's an attitude I see around and I find it alarming.
    I'm not saying most gun owners aren't safe and that's great - but I just feel that often, gun owners/users overcompensate when it comes to downplaying whatever potential risk there actually is so as to present a smiley face on their pursuits to non-gun types. Apart from anything else I don't think it ultimately does anybody any favours, least of all gun owners in the eyes of Joe Public, to refer to firearms in such casual terms, regardless of how much respect I'm sure we all give them in p
    ractice.
    OTOH,you cant go the other way and make them out to be almost animate deadly evil things like a box of unstable nitroglycerine sticks that could explode in a nano second.Like anything they are 100% safe until humans mess around with them.But the point is,we do have to interface with them otherwise we cant use them or many other dangerous things in life.And the only way to learn how anything is dangerous is to be told how dangerous it is and to physically see it happen.A good example is my mate took his 10year old son to Florida last year to a range,and got him shooting a .22 pistol under his supervision.The young fellah did very well, but said somthing very pertinent IMO for a ten year old."Dad,I never realised how powerful and dangerous,and fun a gun actually is,until I actually got to shoot a real one."This coming from a normal Irish kid who has played enough of the shootem up games out there too. He has realised that in the really real world,if you muck up with a gun,no one is going to say "Cut! good take.You can get up now Joe".Nor is a RESTART GAME going to flash in the room either.
    It would be better IMHO spending more time educating kids for drivers ed,by taking them down to a mourge and actually getting them to SEE really real DEAD people from traffic accidents,would sort out more driving caused accidents than Gay Bryne finger wagging and lecturing to us all to slow down.
    If you have ever seen what a shotgun can do to a person in real life[I have had that " privilige" [?] a sucidie case in LA )
    You will be double damn sure of your firearms saftey.But I wont be cowed of them or belive that they cannot be controlled safley by people,nor will I over emphasise the danger level either.If,you can drive a car safley from point A to point B,and repeat that process many times.Which is alot more complex than using a gun.You can shoot a firearm safley too.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #132
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    there's just a lot less room for error in any firearm context.
    Yes, but the evidence does suggest that there's also less errors in a civilian target shooting context, mainly because the environment is more carefully controlled than most other contexts.

    And bunny, next time a judge stands up and says you can't have a licence for that dangerous weapon, feel a sense of deep relief that he's not being silly and PC about it...


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    #133
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Sparks wrote: »
    ..............And bunny, next time a judge stands up and says you can't have a licence for that dangerous weapon, feel a sense of deep relief that he's not being silly and PC about it...

    He/she should then be educated so he/she knows what they are actually talking about first. Just because they are a judge doesn't make them an expert on everything. That's why "expert" witnesses are brought to courts ;)


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    #134
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    bunny shooter wrote: »
    He/she should then be educated so he/she knows what they are actually talking about first. Just because they are a judge doesn't make them an expert on everything. That's why "expert" witnesses are brought to courts ;)
    Hard to educate them to use the correct term when shooters don't bother to do so...


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    #135
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    Army, and I got within a couple of centimetres of having the head taken off me by a professional soldier who wasn't paying as much mind as he should have been on at least one occasion - so I freely admit I'm possibly a bit more cranky on the issue than many might be.


    I'm not saying most gun owners aren't safe and that's great - but I just feel that often, gun owners/users overcompensate when it comes to downplaying whatever potential risk there actually is so as to present a smiley face on their pursuits to non-gun types. Apart from anything else I don't think it ultimately does anybody any favours, least of all gun owners in the eyes of Joe Public, to refer to firearms in such casual terms, regardless of how much respect I'm sure we all give them in practice.

    I would be MORE afraid of a Soldier with a Rifle than a civie, Hunters shoot game every day, shoot more often. And SEE THE RESULTS

    I have served with the DF and i have seen TRAINED soldiers do stuff with Rifles that no Civie would do ;)

    ARP's do not equal to thousands of rounds every year in all conditions by civie shooters.


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    #136
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    I would be MORE afraid of a Soldier with a Rifle than a civie,

    No offense to any army people on here but me too. In town I can't say how often muzzles have been pointed at me (protecting the banks money), not actually AT me, but at me due to carelessness.

    Treat all guns as if they're loaded. I've never liked one pointed in my direction, even if I know it's unloaded. All too easy for something to go wrong once in the habit.


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    #137
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    johngalway wrote: »
    No offense to any army people on here but me too. In town I can't say how often muzzles have been pointed at me (protecting the banks money), not actually AT me, but at me due to carelessness.

    Treat all guns as if they're loaded. I've never liked one pointed in my direction, even if I know it's unloaded. All too easy for something to go wrong once in the habit.

    Nail head Hit on!

    I was once chastised for carrying my "weapon in a non Threatening manner "
    By an Orificer ;)

    The DF train with blanks, fire a few LIVE rounds a year.
    Then they are in the local town with a full auto 30 round mag.


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    #138
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Sparks wrote: »
    Hard to educate them to use the correct term when shooters don't bother to do so...

    Lot more wrong than them using the wrong correct terms :rolleyes:

    Calling an air rifle a pellet gun does not make it any less dangerous :p


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    #139
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    I would be MORE afraid of a Soldier with a Rifle than a civie, Hunters shoot game every day, shoot more often. And SEE THE RESULTS

    A soldier is trained to be a soldier, your RDF unit must be trained differently to mine. As you should know as you claim to be a RDF NCO a soldiers weapon is in a certain state while he is deployed in public here and if he/she has been trained properly their weapon is quite safe unless they decide otherwise
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    I have served with the DF and i have seen TRAINED soldiers do stuff with Rifles that no Civie would do ;)

    Every soldier in this country either RDF or PDF has to have recieved a certain amount of training and be certified as competant by an Officer to use live ammo. How many civvies until recently have to do this before they can do the same?
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    ARP's do not equal to thousands of rounds every year in all conditions by civie shooters.

    Or we can bring in the "familiarity breeds contempt" argument again? I have fired ARP's and done shooting team training in weather I would never fire my own rifles in
    johngalway wrote: »
    No offense to any army people on here but me too. In town I can't say how often muzzles have been pointed at me (protecting the banks money), not actually AT me, but at me due to carelessness.

    Treat all guns as if they're loaded. I've never liked one pointed in my direction, even if I know it's unloaded. All too easy for something to go wrong once in the habit.

    I'll repeat this from above ...... a soldiers weapon is in a certain state while he is deployed in public here and if he/she has been trained properly their weapon is quite safe unless they decide otherwise
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Nail head Hit on!

    I was once chastised for carrying my "weapon in a non Threatening manner "
    By an Orificer ;)

    You are meant to carry it as a soldier should you're not out on a walk in the country :rolleyes:
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    The DF train with blanks, fire a few LIVE rounds a year.
    Then they are in the local town with a full auto 30 round mag.

    Shows how little you actually know about the PDF training :rolleyes:


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    #140
    johngalway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    bunny shooter wrote: »
    I'll repeat this from above ...... a soldiers weapon is in a certain state while he is deployed in public here and if he/she has been trained properly their weapon is quite safe unless they decide otherwise

    And yet they're still called accidents ;)


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    #141
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    bunny shooter wrote: »
    A soldier is trained to be a soldier, your RDF unit must be trained differently to mine. As you should know as you claim to be a RDF NCO a soldiers weapon is in a certain state while he is deployed in public here and if he/she has been trained properly their weapon is quite safe unless they decide otherwise



    Every soldier in this country either RDF or PDF has to have recieved a certain amount of training and be certified as competant by an Officer to use live ammo. How many civvies until recently have to do this before they can do the same?



    Or we can bring in the "familiarity breeds contempt" argument again? I have fired ARP's and done shooting team training in weather I would never fire my own rifles in



    I'll repeat this from above ...... a soldiers weapon is in a certain state while he is deployed in public here and if he/she has been trained properly their weapon is quite safe unless they decide otherwise
    Safe or not, A Rifle is always deemed unsafe in public unless Bolt is back mag out ;)


    You are meant to carry it as a soldier should you're not out on a walk in the country :rolleyes:
    Hard to betray ones better judgement and point a rifle at a human ;)


    Shows how little you actually know about the PDF training :rolleyes:

    I'd know more than you think on training, you don't know my backgrond.
    Muzzle sweep is a NO NO in civie life, Deemed safe or not.
    I could say how, but then the powers that be would have me on disclosure..

    I'm not getting into a DF Vs Civie arguement BS.
    Fact is this, if a civie has an accident with a rifle, end of civie shooting. Not so in DF.

    We are WAY OFF Topic here.
    Question.


    Who trained YOU to shoot and at WHAT AGE did you fire your first rifle shotgun?

    Can you answer that Truthfully please?

    And question 2.
    Would you teach your Kids safe firearm handling, and shooting?

    Honestly NO BS BS ;)


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    #142
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    I'd know more than you think on training, you don't know my backgrond.

    Nor you mine :p;)
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    I'm not getting into a DF Vs Civie arguement BS.

    I think you're better off :p
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Fact is this, if a civie has an accident with a rifle, end of civie shooting. Not so in DF.

    What a silly statement. So what your saying is if someone in the DF is not liable to the same laws as a civvie? :rolleyes:
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    We are WAY OFF Topic here.

    And who mentioned soldiers first? :rolleyes:

    I have noticed when you get in over your depth you wanna change the subject :rolleyes:
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Question.

    Who trained YOU to shoot and at WHAT AGE did you fire your first rifle shotgun?

    Can you answer that Truthfully please?

    My father, when I was about 7 years old, shotgun & .22 rifle. He could consistently shoot the "possible" at 600 yards with a .303 and he was taught by his father before him :cool:
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    And question 2.
    Would you teach your Kids safe firearm handling, and shooting?

    Honestly NO BS BS ;)

    Yes, I would, IF they asked me to and I have 3 x daughters, one is 22, one is 21 and the youngest is 20 and none of them have any interest in shooting or hunting and I wouldn't force it on them :)

    And that's no BS ;)


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    #143
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    /facepalm

    Could we drop the DF-vs-Civilian malarky please? The two are chalk and cheese and you really can't run comparisons between them in either direction, the training on either side is completely different and predicated on completely different requirements and assumptions.


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    #144
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    bunny shooter wrote: »
    Nor you mine :p;)



    I think you're better off :p



    What a silly statement. So what your saying is if someone in the DF is not liable to the same laws as a civvie? :rolleyes:



    And who mentioned soldiers first? :rolleyes:

    I have noticed when you get in over your depth you wanna change the subject :rolleyes:



    My father, when I was about 7 years old, shotgun & .22 rifle. He could consistently shoot the "possible" at 600 yards with a .303 and he was taught by his father before him :cool:



    Yes, I would, IF they asked me to and I have 3 x daughters, one is 22, one is 21 and the youngest is 20 and none of them have any interest in shooting or hunting and I wouldn't force it on them :)

    And that's no BS ;)

    A person called Jill Valentine mentioned DF, not me.

    Anyway, you can teach your Grand kids, I have no kids yet.
    I look forward to teaching my nephew and nieces in time, if THEY want to learn.

    They currently do not like me killing Bunnies.

    Although the eldest girl almost 8 helps me clean my motorbikes.;)
    maybe in time she may get interested in Rifles


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    #145
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Sparks wrote: »
    /facepalm

    Could we drop the DF-vs-Civilian malarky please? The two are chalk and cheese and you really can't run comparisons between them in either direction, the training on either side is completely different and predicated on completely different requirements and assumptions.

    He started it :p

    That's what I was trying to point out, just went a different route ;)

    I would thank your post Sparks but I'd feel silly doing so :p


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    #146
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Sparks wrote: »
    /facepalm

    Could we drop the DF-vs-Civilian malarky please? The two are chalk and cheese and you really can't run comparisons between them in either direction, the training on either side is completely different and predicated on completely different requirements and assumptions.

    Yeah, my fault TBH. But for the record:

    a) The DF have a substantial bit of live firing experience, it's not something they only do a few times a year just to tick a box, and there's generally a lot of crossover between DF and civilian shooters.

    b) This is why I didn't want to mention where I've had the bulk of my firearms experience, rather than wanting to pretend I was Andy McNab's long lost twin sister or anything. ;) I only brought it up because there were a few um, enquiries as to the point.


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    #147
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    A person called Jill Valentine mentioned DF, not me.

    Technically your right :eek: BUT I was referring to this nugget of wisdom
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    I would be MORE afraid of a Soldier with a Rifle than a civie,.............
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Anyway, you can teach your Grand kids, I have no kids yet.
    I look forward to teaching my nephew and nieces in time, if THEY want to learn.

    As I said, if they ask I will ;)
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    They currently do not like me killing Bunnies.

    My youngest is a confirmed fur hugger :rolleyes: BUT I encouraged free-thinking so ..............
    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Although the eldest girl almost 8 helps me clean my motorbikes.;)
    maybe in time she may get interested in Rifles

    They have no interest in my bike either :eek::confused:


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    #148
    Tackleberrywho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    [QUOTE=


    They have no interest in my bike either :eek::confused:[/QUOTE]

    I'm not allowed bring my nephew on my bike around the house!

    And that is the orders from his mother.

    Ask the Gosiún, what do you want to drive when you grow up?

    John Deere, Jeep & Mokiebike

    Although I did buy him a toy rifle for his birthday ;)


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    #149
    kildare.17hmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭kildare.17hmr


    Tackleberrywho wrote: »
    Nail head Hit on!

    I was once chastised for carrying my "weapon in a non Threatening manner "
    By an Orificer ;)

    The DF train with blanks, fire a few LIVE rounds a year.
    Then they are in the local town with a full auto 30 round mag.

    Must have been a very long time since you were in the army tac;-0, i think i fired maybe 5 mags of blanks the whole time i was in the RDF could not count the number of live rounds but id say id need a trailer to transport them


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    #150
    Kryten
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Kryten


    The difference between Army ad Civvy is blatently obvious. The Army use their rifles as weapons, train to kill people. Use man shaped targets (sort of). Perform live fire training exercises to get ready for the real thing. (Ex PDF and my experience anyway). Hunters and sports shooters use their rifles to either punch holes in paper at various distances or get a nice bit of meat for the pot.

    However the safety aspect is the same. And should always be. On the range or in the field you need to have full awareness about your firearm and stay switched on about it. Generally in a non presssure environment. With Army, you have to have the same level of awareness and then some, as you are moving around with the rifle. You are supposed to watch muzzle direction and act safely while in any kind of a situation be it training or active service.

    In both Civvy street and Army street you get muppets on both sides and it gets so easy for an accident to occur. So Jill, I agree with the statement that a firearm should not be treated in the same complacent way as a tennis racket. As for training the kids in the safe handling of firearms, well they are your kids and you should know when and if they are ready. Mine are both 14 and have been ready for the last 2 years, but never practiced with anything heavier than airsoft up to now. ;)


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