What Happened To My Rounds ?

vixdname

Lads, Your opinions please, I went out to do a little 100yrd target practise this evening and printed off some targets from the internet.
I fired the 1st 10 rounds and 6 out of the 10 fired were either on bull or within 1'' of it. I then fired a 2nd set of 10 rounds about 6 mins later and the points of impact were generally the same as the 1st 10.
I took a wander through the fields for about 40 mins and went back into the same field, set up a new target but in a different positon, fired a set of 10 rounds, with most of them going about 1.5 - 2 '' to the right of the bull, then it got really weird, I fired 5 rounds, the 1st three didnt even get on paper !!! I the moved up to 50 yrds and they werent much better - all over the place they were. Couldnt seem to get the rounds back even on paper !!! All I could think of is that maybe the barrell had gotten too hot and was messing things up. I used American Eagle flat base hollow point, with a remy 700 .223 in AI stock and Nightforce 5.5-22x56 scope...Any info any of you have will be much appreciated. I'm gonna bring it to my local gun dealer and let him take it out and see how he gets on ?

BTW: This is my 3rd time out this week and it didnt happen any other time.

BELOWaverageIQ

Is your scope loose ?
I know you wernt isn't top rated ammo but they shouldn't be that bad.

vixdname

Just rechecked my scope, it seems ok, I got John Greene to put it on last week so I'm pretty sure he'd do a decent job.......

Sparks

Are you used to firing 35-odd rounds of .223 in a single session?

vixdname

would have to say NO to that.....but wouldnt the 40 or so minute break before my 2nd session have been enough time to thoroughly cool off?? I've had this before and thought it may have been my bushnell elite 3200 5-15x50 scope and i thought perhaps my old stock but then i got the AI stock and then the nightforcescope and i thought considering all seemed ok earlier on during the wek that the problem was solved but then tonight happened and now I reckon 'll have to get john greene to take it out and see what he thinks

Sparks

It's not so much the rifle I'm thinking of as your shoulder vix. Granted, .223 isn't the worst kick in the shoulder it's possible to get, but if you're not used to it, 30 rounds will do your shoulder in and the groups would open up a lot as a result. First time I fired 30 rounds of .303, my first ten shots or so were okay, and the rest gradually got worse and worse until by the end, I was lucky to be on the card.

vixdname

Sparks wrote: »

It's not so much the rifle I'm thinking of as your shoulder vix. Granted, .223 isn't the worst kick in the shoulder it's possible to get, but if you're not used to it, 30 rounds will do your shoulder in and the groups would open up a lot as a result. First time I fired 30 rounds of .303, my first ten shots or so were okay, and the rest gradually got worse and worse until by the end, I was lucky to be on the card.

Its a thought ok, but the AI stock has a mighty recoil pad and the shoulder doesnt get any sort of a bashing, the thing is is that I'm holding the cross hairs really steady on the bull thanks to the AI stock but the hole seems to appear off the right . Strange thing is is that during to week I didnt have this problem, i thought everything was finally ok

Sparks

Are all the rounds from exactly the same batch of ammo or are they from different boxes? That might account for an inch or two of variation. Not sure about what would cause that last group to be so bad though.

vixdname

Sparks wrote: »

Are all the rounds from exactly the same batch of ammo or are they from different boxes? That might account for an inch or two of variation. Not sure about what would cause that last group to be so bad though.

am 99.99% sure the were the same batch, checked the boxes when i git them earlier this week

Tackleberrywho

vixdname wrote: »

am 99.99% sure the were the same batch, checked the boxes when i git them earlier this week

I had a similar problem before hit 7 rabbits out of 7 and then miss seven out of seven.

One of the screws on the windage adj on the rings had come loose half a turn. scope could move if pressed hard.

I brought it home, tightened and groups were back perfect.

The .223 could be causing you to flinch with the bang. I have found since I put a mod on mine the groups shrunk.

In regards ammo, I had a change in POI when I used 2 different batches of Hornady, one had silver percussion caps and one had brass. There was a deviation of about 1/2" in them.

Failing that bring rifle to RFD/Gunsmith and let him test fire it.

Rovi

Sparks wrote: »

It's not so much the rifle I'm thinking of as your shoulder vix. Granted, .223 isn't the worst kick in the shoulder it's possible to get, but if you're not used to it, 30 rounds will do your shoulder in and the groups would open up a lot as a result. First time I fired 30 rounds of .303, my first ten shots or so were okay, and the rest gradually got worse and worse until by the end, I was lucky to be on the card.

Unless the rifle is an utter featherweight, there's a world of difference between the hoof off a service rifle in .303 and a modern hunting rifle in .223.

I suspect that something mechanical has gone awry.
The scope or mounts could have loosened (even slightly), the action may have loosened in the stock, the muzzle crown may have been damaged, the scope may even be faulty.

Check for obvious loose/damaged stuff and try it again.
If it's still misbehaving, have a gunsmith take a look.

ivanthehunter

Something loose!
Stop wasting time shooting and get a loan of a Bushnell bore sighter reticule. Try jarring the guns mechanisms and watch for a shift on the bore sighter guns through your scope..

Each time you take a shot something in the alignment shifts between the barrel and the scope, i think your shoulder has nothing much to do with the issue -

as others have stated it sounds like loose scope or a damaged reticule or even a loose receiver/barrel union???..

rrpc

Fouling in the barrel will do that as well. 35 rounds doesn't seem like much but depending on the quality of the ammo and the heat of the barrel, you could easily end up with the kind of group widening you describe.

Especially after everything cooled down with the 40 minute walk.

sikastag

+1 rrpc

Use of a moderator/surpressor can also increase fouling. Gases do not escape barrel as efficiently.

vixdname

Thanks a million lads for all the info.

I brought it to John Greene this morning and he had a look at it, scope, mounts, barrel, action, everything good and tight.
He checked the crown aswell, he took a look through the barrel and checked that it was indeed a 1 in 12 twist rate because he said that there was a batch of remmys in .223 that came into the country with the wrong twist rate last year or there abouts but he knew by looking down the barrel that the twist rate was ok. I had given the barrel a good clean lastnight and he commented that the barrel was immaculate so all possible barrel issues were struck off the list.
Finally he reckoned that the most likely cause of my shot placement issue was down to my bipod. I was using a Deben bipod that John reckoned eventhough it was well fixed onto the stock was still pretty shakey when used.
He said that I should consider an AI type bipod that sticks into the front of the AI stock and will give me much better stability.Check out the pic of one below if you dont know what it looks like already.
He took a box of that same batch of ammo that I was using and kept the rifle so as he can take it out and test fire it over the next week or so using his AI type bipod and we'll see from there. He was pretty sure though that the issue is bipod related. T'will be interesting to see how John gets on. I'm getting him to soften up my trigger a bit aswell so hopefull all will get sorted once and for all. Thanks again lads - all the info is much appreciated.

Looks like I'll have to take out the old Anschutz .22LR for a spin this evening - havent used it that often since getting the .223 !!! Poor Anschutz !!!

rrpc: you could be right there aswell.