Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Jemo

It could be with an eye to bringing on board a full time scrum coach. Feek is the Leinster scrum coach, he has helped out but cannot be there all the time, even during the international windows.

bamboozle

Jemo wrote: »

It could be with an eye to bringing on board a full time scrum coach. Feek is the Leinster scrum coach, he has helped out but cannot be there all the time, even during the international windows.

he would be an excellent signing as scrummaging coach to the national team and maybe also as advisor to the U20's and each provinces academy's.

bamboozle

totallegend wrote: »

I think Ferris is good enough to be an exceptional case and should be given as much time as possible to prove his fitness.

Heaslip, Wallace and O'Brien are nailed down for the squad, then you have a supporting cast of the likes of Leamy, McLoughlin, Jennings, Faloon, Wilson and Muldoon fighting it out for the next two spots. Ferris is so far ahead of anyone in that chasing pack in terms of ability that he should be given every chance. In the same way, Flannery is so far ahead of the "contender" hookers (which is basically just Varley) that he should also be given as much leeway as possible. Similar case (though not as clearcut) for R Kearney.

A fully fit Ferris would be a fantastic bonus for Ireland. I wouldn't be very optimistic about seeing it though

i'd love to see McLaughlin brought along as 2nd row/back row cover, however my fear is that Donncadh Ryan will get this role, if Ferris doesnt make it the closest we have to him as a 6 is Muldoon, i'd be delighted for him and Connacht rugby to see him on the plane ahead of Leamy, in fairness in his limited appearances in an Irish jersey over the last 12 months Muldoon has had a greater impact than Leamy, i'm afraid all Leamy's injuries have caught up on him and he's not the player he was.

Podge_irl

Unless one of Buckley or Ross is injured I don't think Hayes will travel (even then Hagan should probably go, but won't).

Did we only bring 3 locks last time with Quinlan covering second row? If they did that again with McLaughlin it would mean not having to bring O'Driscoll.

totallegend

Podge_irl wrote: »

Unless one of Buckley or Ross is injured I don't think Hayes will travel (even then Hagan should probably go, but won't).

I feel bad saying this but under NO circumstances should Hayes travel. His legs are gone which, for a man of 37 carrying 20 stone around, is no great criticism of him.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Did we only bring 3 locks last time with Quinlan covering second row? If they did that again with McLaughlin it would mean not having to bring O'Driscoll.

Correct; POC, DOC and MOK went last time and Quinlan went but (like Ferris) saw zero action. I would be in favour of bringing someone like McLaughlin or even Tuohy who can do a job in either position (I know Ryan is being talked about in this role but I don't think he's up to international level).

GerM

At this moment in time, I think we're looking at:

Healy, Court, Ross, Buckley.
Flannery, Best, Cronin. (Varley if Flannery doesn't make it)
POC, DOC, Cullen
McLaughlin
Heaslip, SOB, Wallace, Leamy, Ferris
TOL, Reddan, Stringer (3rd scrum half spot is very open I think)
Sexton, ROG
BOD, Darce, Wallace
Earls, Trimble, Fitz, Bowe.
Kearney, Murphy

I don't think MOD will be involved. All the signs point to DK wanting a dual player. Ryan has played significantly at 6 with Leamy being benched and McLaughlin has started seeing game time at lock. If he feels one of them can fulfill the dual role well enough, he'll bring them. McLaughlin has probably edged proceedings and DK has shown in the past he rates him, starting him in last season's 6N. He's a better lock than Ryan is a flanker.

The last scrum half spot is wide open at this stage. If TOL and Murray are the two players involved with Munster this weekend then I think Stringer is in danger of being jettisoned. Don't bet against Murray going as a bolter. I would apply the same logic to Geordan Murphy in relation to Felix Jones. DK has attended Munster games with viewing Jones in action high on his list of priorities. He took him to the Churchill Cup in 2009 where he was one of the stars. I think it's going to come down to a straight shoot out between himself and Murphy for a spot in the warm up games.

The last issue is McFadden. I'm not sure who will be left behind if he travels but he's the next name on the list and given the injuries that Ireland have suffered in the back 3 over the past months I think he'll travel on stand by if he's not in the original party. The fact that he has started taking the kicks for Leinster again whilst sharing the pitch with Nacewa would suggest that DK wants to see what he can offer. If he makes the orginal squad, it will be at Wallace's expense. Again, the warm up games are going to play a significant role in this call I reckon.

irishbucsfan

I don't think we should bring Leamy and McLoughlin. One should be kept at home on stand-by. I would leave Leamy. And I think the extra squad space should be used to bring McFadden. There is more than enough coverage in that collection of forwards to cover any injury crisis. We don't need to worry about the numbers in the split because we have an extremely versatile back row group there with at least 3 players capable of covering each position.

As for scrum halvevs, I would love if Murray was brought ahead of O'Leary... but does anyone really think Kidney will do that?

WeeBushy

That's the squad I would pick, and think he will pick, more or less. A couple of changes I would make:

McFadden really should go imo, preferably at the expense of Wallace, but Wallace is definitely going so I would have him in the squad over Trimble, he is more versatile and if he's not as good on the wing as Trimble its only just. Kicking ability a major plus if we were in the unfortunate position of having to play Wallace at 10.

Jennings ahead of Leamy. Enough argument over the merits of Leamy so won't go into it, but Jennings would be my preference.

If one of Kearney or Murphy don't prove their fitness or are wildly out of form after their injuries I wouldn't be surprised to see Jones in the squad, I wouldn't pick him personally but he's in with a shout.

Last SH spot is v tough to call as GerM says. Stringer, Boss and Murray all with a chance and in that order imo. I'd take Boss, but I'm probably biased...
Actually no, I wouldn't take him because then Leinster would be left with no senior SHs :cool:
Stringer is probably the best call in terms of having the most diverse selection of playing styles at SH.

sock puppet

GerM wrote: »

At this moment in time, I think we're looking at:

Healy, Court, Ross, Buckley.
Flannery, Best, Cronin. (Varley if Flannery doesn't make it)
POC, DOC, Cullen
McLaughlin
Heaslip, SOB, Wallace, Leamy, Ferris
TOL, Reddan, Stringer (3rd scrum half spot is very open I think)
Sexton, ROG
BOD, Darce, Wallace
Earls, Trimble, Fitz, Bowe.
Kearney, Murphy

I don't think MOD will be involved. All the signs point to DK wanting a dual player. Ryan has played significantly at 6 with Leamy being benched and McLaughlin has started seeing game time at lock. If he feels one of them can fulfill the dual role well enough, he'll bring them. McLaughlin has probably edged proceedings and DK has shown in the past he rates him, starting him in last season's 6N. He's a better lock than Ryan is a flanker.

The last scrum half spot is wide open at this stage. If TOL and Murray are the two players involved with Munster this weekend then I think Stringer is in danger of being jettisoned. Don't bet against Murray going as a bolter. I would apply the same logic to Geordan Murphy in relation to Felix Jones. DK has attended Munster games with viewing Jones in action high on his list of priorities. He took him to the Churchill Cup in 2009 where he was one of the stars. I think it's going to come down to a straight shoot out between himself and Murphy for a spot in the warm up games.

The last issue is McFadden. I'm not sure who will be left behind if he travels but he's the next name on the list and given the injuries that Ireland have suffered in the back 3 over the past months I think he'll travel on stand by if he's not in the original party. The fact that he has started taking the kicks for Leinster again whilst sharing the pitch with Nacewa would suggest that DK wants to see what he can offer. If he makes the orginal squad, it will be at Wallace's expense. Again, the warm up games are going to play a significant role in this call I reckon.

If everyone's fit I'd say it's pretty much guaranteed to be exactly that. Though will Murphy be fully fit for the world cup?

ambid

GerM wrote: »

At this moment in time, I think we're looking at:

Healy, Court, Ross, Buckley.
Flannery, Best, Cronin. (Varley if Flannery doesn't make it)
POC, DOC, Cullen
McLaughlin
Heaslip, SOB, Wallace, Leamy, Ferris
TOL, Reddan, Stringer (3rd scrum half spot is very open I think)
Sexton, ROG
BOD, Darce, Wallace
Earls, Trimble, Fitz, Bowe.
Kearney, Murphy
...

Only 4 props? Do you think that would be enough? Are we not likely to need 5 given the high attrition they might face against good scrummaging sides in Italy and Russia (I assume)?

I'd be surprised if both Kearney & Murphy travel as both have been injured so long. McFadden should edge in on merit, but that would leave us short of FB cover unless Earls is feeling flexible. I'd love to see Jennings there, but doubt we will.

GerM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think we should bring Leamy and McLoughlin. One should be kept at home on stand-by. I would leave Leamy. And I think the extra squad space should be used to bring McFadden. There is more than enough coverage in that collection of forwards to cover any injury crisis. We don't need to worry about the numbers in the split because we have an extremely versatile back row group there with at least 3 players capable of covering each position.

As for scrum halvevs, I would love if Murray was brought ahead of O'Leary... but does anyone really think Kidney will do that?

Agreed but I think Leamy is travelling no matter what. Can't see DK dropping him after having him in his 22 for every game and starting him in one of the 6N matches. I think TOL is nailed on too. There's still a good chance he's first choice. Stringer is the man to lose out. DK dropped him from Munster for TOL and could do it for Ireland. If Stringer isn't even making the Munster 23 then it will be hard for DK rationalise his selection for the WC when we've several options.

totallegend

ambid wrote: »

Only 4 props? Do you think that would be enough? Are we not likely to need 5 given the high attrition they might face against good scrummaging sides in Italy and Russia (I assume)?

I'd be surprised if both Kearney & Murphy travel as both have been injured so long. McFadden should edge in on merit, but that would leave us short of FB cover unless Earls is feeling flexible. I'd love to see Jennings there, but doubt we will.

We only brought four in 2003 and 2007 as far as I remember (not that those campaigns were benchmarks for success).

Am I right in saying that the World Cup will still only be 22-man match day squads, i.e. only one prop on the bench? In which case, the need for more props is less urgent, especially guys who can only play one side of the scrum. Rotate Buckley and Court in as the starters against the minnows to give Healy and Ross a break and we'll be OK.

GerM

ambid wrote: »

Only 4 props? Do you think that would be enough? Are we not likely to need 5 given the high attrition they might face against good scrummaging sides in Italy and Russia (I assume)?

I'd be surprised if both Kearney & Murphy travel as both have been injured so long. McFadden should edge in on merit, but that would leave us short of FB cover unless Earls is feeling flexible. I'd love to see Jennings there, but doubt we will.

My take is that if DK was asked to name his 30 for the WC right now, these are the players he would go for. Fitness and the warm up games will play a large role in the participation of Murphy, Kearney, Ferris and Flannery. Of those, I think Murphy is the most vulnerable and I think there's a good chance he won't make it due to being out performed in the warm up games and being of advanced years. If Kearney is sluggish in the warm up matches, he's more likely to be given the benefit of the doubt given his age and role as first choice 15 before injury.

In relation to the props, I think we'll go with 4. I don't think that was the original plan but Hayes is no longer a viable option. His performance levels have dropped drastically in the past year and if he was to be brought, it would be no more than a gesture. It would be a waste of a spot in harsh reality. After Hayes, the only other player that would be considered is Horan and I don't think he'll be involved either. We missed the opportunity to look at anyone else in autumn and I can't see DK going beyond those he has already used when it comes to the front row.

porterbelly

Deccie, if your looking at this, BRING JOHN MULDOON

danthefan

Feek is the Leinster scrum coach.

siltirocker

porterbelly wrote: »

Deccie, if your looking at this, BRING JOHN MULDOON

That won't happen. True he covers all positions. But it just won't. Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Leamy and Wallace will go. If Ferris doesn't go, he might but Kidney might fancy McLoughlin instead (why i don't know). Jennings will probably travel if there is an injury. Even though i believe Muldoon or Jennings should be going instead of Leamy.

I however can not understand why Gavin Duffy hasn't been a shoe in for the Irish 15 jersey EVEN if Kearney or Murphy were/are fit. The man has been SENSATIONAL in the past 18 months and beyond Isa the best full back in the league.

irishbucsfan

porterbelly wrote: »

Deccie, if your looking at this, BRING JOHN MULDOON

Can't see any space for Muldoon. Leamy and McLaughlin are ahead of him, and I can't see any rationalisation for bringing both of them.

Dr.Evil

Does it have to be a 30 man squad exactly? Or could we see Kidney bringing about 32/33 given the injury prone nature of some players he's likely to bring?

thomond2006

IIRC 30 man squads are World Cup rules?

porterbelly

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Can't see any space for Muldoon. Leamy and McLaughlin are ahead of him, and I can't see any rationalisation for bringing both of them.

Muldoon is far ahead of Leamy. Kidney needs to wake up and see it.

Can't see Ferris being fit. It will be a huge risk to bring him. I hate to say it but I could see him having to retire within the next 2 years

GerM

Dr.Evil wrote: »

Does it have to be a 30 man squad exactly? Or could we see Kidney bringing about 32/33 given the injury prone nature of some players he's likely to bring?

Has to be a 30 man squad. However, some nations name an official stand by list. The USA, Japan, Australia and France all named official stand by lists in case of injury in 2007. I'm sure there will be 5 or 6 players told to be ready and some flights booked in case of such an injury occurring.

CiaranMT

porterbelly wrote: »

Muldoon is far ahead of Leamy. Kidney needs to wake up and see it.

Can't see Ferris being fit. It will be a huge risk to bring him. I hate to say it but I could see him having to retire within the next 2 years

If Ferris and Fla make it and play a part in the WC, then our chances are hugely improved of doing well. They would get onto any team apart from possibly SA, and that's only because Du Plessis and Smith are in those positions.

Risky, but one definitely worth taking.

danthefan

CiaranMT wrote: »

If Ferris and Fla make it and play a part in the WC, then our chances are hugely improved of doing well. They would get onto any team apart from possibly SA, and that's only because Du Plessis and Smith are in those positions.

Risky, but one definitely worth taking.

Flannery? I really don't think so. In fact that's just nonsense. He's not even nearly in the same class as Ferris, in their respective positions.

val_jester

CiaranMT wrote: »

If Ferris and Fla make it and play a part in the WC, then our chances are hugely improved of doing well. They would get onto any team apart from possibly SA, and that's only because Du Plessis and Smith are in those positions.

Risky, but one definitely worth taking.

That is a ridiculous thing to say, Flannery was brilliant for Ireland in the past but he has barely played a game in the past two years. And even then wasnt at his best. Rory Best is nailed on first choice for Ireland and there is no way Flannery deserves to walk into the team ahead of him. The three tri-nations teams have better hookers than Flannery as do France, and there is no guarantee he will even be fit.

I agree that Ferris is a special case and should be given every chance because the drop of in quality between him, Wally, SOB and Heaslip to the rest is fairly big.

rockman15

Personally I think McFadden should go instead of Paddy Wallace. He's Infinitely better player. Forget the "experience" nonsense of Wallace. McFadden does everything Wallace does, except better. End of. Given the chances he has had this season with Leinster, he hasnt let them down, in any respect.

Fla seems to be a wasted man. One game in 6m out this season. Id offer Varley a spot before him.

MOD shouldnt even be included in the back-ups. But for some reason Deccie loves him. Marginal call between himself, Ryan, Tuohy and Toner for backup slot.Tuohy would again be my favoured as I think he's a better ball carrier than Ryan. My feelings on Poolbeg/Toner are quite clear. (POC,DOC, Leo, McLaughlin for my 2nds)

CIARAN_BOYLE

rockman15 wrote: »

Personally I think McFadden should go instead of Paddy Wallace. He's Infinitely better player. Forget the "experience" nonsense of Wallace. McFadden does everything Wallace does, except better. End of. Given the chances he has had this season with Leinster, he hasnt let them down, in any respect.

Fla seems to be a wasted man. One game in 6m out this season. Id offer Varley a spot before him.

MOD shouldnt even be included in the back-ups. But for some reason Deccie loves him. Marginal call between himself, Ryan, Tuohy and Toner for backup slot.Tuohy would again be my favoured as I think he's a better ball carrier than Ryan. My feelings on Poolbeg/Toner are quite clear. (POC,DOC, Leo, McLaughlin for my 2nds)

I would love to see McFadden go, thing is he doesn't cover 10 and common preception is that you need 3 options at the specialist positions (2,9,10), wallace is going but McFadden is targetting Trimble or Fitzgeralds place on the plane imo

CiaranMT

Fla, if fit, will be first choice. He's a better all-round player than Best. His darts are top-notch and he carries more effectively than Best. Cronin would be the most dynamic but his throwing leaves a lot to be desired and he's inexperienced.

If you were to compare a fit Flannery to the other hookers out there, who would you take ahead of him?

Hartley? Nope.
Ford? Nope.
Rees? Nope.
Servat? Probably would, now that I think about it.
Moore? Nope.
Mealamu? Nope.

If he were to be fit, then he has to travel.

Not to say that Best isn't deserving of his place at the minute, he has been excellent this spring. One of the few forwards who stood up to Northampton in the SF and was solid as a rock in the 6N.

Keeping PO'C fit is a must as well.

Cpt_Blackbeard

val_jester wrote: »

That is a ridiculous thing to say, Flannery was brilliant for Ireland in the past but he has barely played a game in the past two years. And even then wasnt at his best. Rory Best is nailed on first choice for Ireland and there is no way Flannery deserves to walk into the team ahead of him. The three tri-nations teams have better hookers than Flannery as do France, and there is no guarantee he will even be fit.

I agree that Ferris is a special case and should be given every chance because the drop of in quality between him, Wally, SOB and Heaslip to the rest is fairly big.

There is no way that you could consider Ferris a special case but not Flannery. Flannery hasn't played much rugby in 2 years but if he gets anyway fit and anywhere near his best, he is by far the best option available. He is the only hooker available that is dependable in the lineout.

Ferris at his best isn't even a guaranteed starter, whilst Flannery at his best is in another league to Best and co. It would be a big risk to bring him but, he will be given a chance to prove himself in the warmup games.

rockman15 wrote: »

MOD shouldnt even be included in the back-ups. But for some reason Deccie loves him. Marginal call between himself, Ryan, Tuohy and Toner for backup slot.Tuohy would again be my favoured as I think he's a better ball carrier than Ryan. My feelings on Poolbeg/Toner are quite clear. (POC,DOC, Leo, McLaughlin for my 2nds)

Toner? Ian Nagle was ahead of him for Ireland A's, Toner will be lucky if he reaches 5 Irish caps unless he improves drastically.

danthefan

Flannery better than Moore and Mealamu, good lord.

ambid

GerM wrote: »

Has to be a 30 man squad. However, some nations name an official stand by list. The USA, Japan, Australia and France all named official stand by lists in case of injury in 2007. I'm sure there will be 5 or 6 players told to be ready and some flights booked in case of such an injury occurring.

Yeah I read somewhere that Kidney's stand by players will have to following the same routine as the squad - so sleeping when it's night in NZ even though it'll be day time here. Poor sods!