Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

RoundBox11

CatFromHue wrote: »

Ross and D'arcy could have switched with Court and McFadden and been put on the bench. Similarly with POM and Ferris/SOB.

Putting Court at TH instead of Ross is asking for trouble. Court is good at loosehead but hes barely international standard at TH. Wed be minced in the scrum. If you were including Court youd have to drop Healy, one of our best ball carriers/workhorses/defenders.

Resting Ferris or O'Brien against one of the best backrows out there is asking for trouble also. Theyl be giving us trouble anyway without resting two of the best back rowers in the world.

Putting Mcfadden in for mDarce would have been ok, but with BOD and O'Connel gone already we need all the experience we can get right now.

irishbucsfan

So Thornley was wrong about Toner. Trouble in paradise?

And we should be favouring the England game over this game because there are a lot more ranking points at stake in that one.

Podge_irl

MLC61 wrote: »

My question was on the resting issue - why rest them for the English game over the Scottish game?

Because Scotland are worse then England and we have them at home.

Leslie91

Shoulda dropped Trimble he has been v poor. There was no chance of him dropping DOC with POC out.

Legion2008

MLC61 wrote: »

Why do the majority of posters favour change in order to rest players for the English game? Why is the English game any more important than the Scots game?

It makes sense to me to pick your best team for the next game and then evaluate following that game on the health of the players.

Scotland will be as hard to beat as England and surely we should target the home win first.

Given the injury enforced absentees I don't honestly think that Kidney could change too much else.

In a sense the scottish game is a far more important game to win than the English game ... if we were to lose to Scotland the loss in IRB ranking points would be significant and would bring is too close to dropping out of the top 8 by the end of the year .... if that was to happen then we would end up as 3rd seeds in the 2015 world cup. Indeed if Scotland were to beat us by more than 15 points they would actually overtake us in the rankings and we would drop to 9th in the world which would be our lowest ever position.

A loss to England would not be as bad as they are currently ranked higher than us. The following website provides a calculator where you can see the impact on ranking points: http://www.aaatos.net/rankings.py#

OldRio

MLC61 wrote: »

That's two different issues -
1. Blooding new players in order to build a squad,
2. Resting players.

The blooding new players is Fantasy Football stuff and keeps fans forums ticking - why doesn't he swap xx for yy and play zz in the other position. Daydreaming and good fun.

My question was on the resting issue - why rest them for the English game over the Scottish game?

Blooding new players is fantasy football stuff ??
No it isn't.
If the squad is managed correctly players can be rested for some matches and play in others.
So when we play England we will have played 3 games in less than 3 weeks.
Rest some of the players USE the squad. Its a big squad, use it.
Manage, thats what some coaches do.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

**** Ireland, the players are gonna be flogged come the HEC quarters.

The ones that are available for the QFs that is...

Tox56

thomond2006 wrote: »

**** Ireland, the players are gonna be flogged come the HEC quarters.

Who cares, we've got BRAD THORN.

CatFromHue

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Putting Court at TH instead of Ross is asking for trouble. Court is good at loosehead but hes barely international standard at TH. Wed be minced in the scrum. If you were including Court youd have to drop Healy, one of our best ball carriers/workhorses/defenders.

Resting Ferris or O'Brien against one of the best backrows out there is asking for trouble also. Theyl be giving us trouble anyway without resting two of the best back rowers in the world.

Putting Mcfadden in for mDarce would have been ok, but with BOD and O'Connel gone already we need all the experience we can get right now.

Putting Court in for Healy with Healy on the bench is equally as good. Healy is very abbrasive and so far has played til the 73, 69, and 74th minute of each game.

The thing about changing Ross is that he's played every minute of the 6 Nations so far, he will be out on his feet come the England game.

Denton, Rennie, and Barclay are a good back row but wouldn't be one of the best in the world.

dtpc191991

Tbh the only real problem I have with this team is D'Arcy and O'Leary. We could do with blooding a new 12 and O'Leary shouldn't be anywhere near the Irish Jersey, we have better options in Marshall and Boss.

.ak

Whilst I agree I'd love to see Marshall get a cap, I just can't see him coming off the bench in a possible fix-the-game scenario and coping well under pressure.

Boss is the logical replacement, but I'm glad he wasn't picked as Leinster would be tight and possibly knackered with half-backs for the Ospreys game.

Podge_irl

Boss isn't available, he's in NZ apparently. So Leinster might yet be fecked there anyway.

Marshall is pretty much the text-book example of impact player.

fitz

.ak wrote: »

Whilst I agree I'd love to see Marshall get a cap, I just can't see him coming off the bench in a possible fix-the-game scenario and coping well under pressure.

And O'Leary is?

.ak

fitz wrote: »

And O'Leary is?

I cringe at saying this, but he's a safer pair of hands.

ugh, there, I said it...

Monty Burnz

Legion2008 wrote: »

Indeed if Scotland were to beat us by more than 15 points they would actually overtake us in the rankings and we would drop to 9th in the world which would be our lowest ever position.

This just shows how bad the rankings are. Scotland had a terrible world cup and have had a terrible 6 Nations to date (results-wise). How they could somehow leapfrog us after we had a reasonable WC and one narrow defeat in the 6N is beyond comprehension.

jacothelad

Current IRB Standings.

IRELAND / SCOTLAND
80.3 / 74.94

Home Win - 15
80.46 / 74.776

Home win. 15+
80.546 / 74.694

DRAW
79.464 / 75.776

AWAY WIN - 15
78.464 / 75.776

AWAY WIN +15
77.546 / 77.694

We could drop out of the top 8

Tox56

jacothelad wrote: »

Current IRB Standings.

IRELAND / SCOTLAND
80.3 / 74.94

Home Win - 15
80.46 / 74.776

Home win. 15+
80.546 / 74.694

DRAW
79.464 / 75.776

AWAY WIN - 15
78.464 / 75.776

AWAY WIN +15
77.546 / 77.694

We could drop out of the top 8

Only if we lose by more than 15 points at home?

ray jay

Tox56 wrote: »

Only if we lose by more than 15 points at home?

Yes, and in that case it would be a fitting punishment.

Legion2008

ray jay wrote: »

Yes, and in that case it would be a fitting punishment.

and with our remaining fixtures of the year we'd be hard pushed to get back into the top 8

Away to Enlgand
Away to New Zealand (3 times)
Home to South Africa
Home to Argentina

(is there a 3rd Nov International ... can't find it listed anywhere)

Monty Burnz

Legion2008 wrote: »

and with our remaining fixtures of the year we'd be hard pushed to get back into the top 8

Away to Enlgand
Away to New Zealand (3 times)
Home to South Africa
Home to Argentina

(is there a 3rd Nov International ... can't find it listed anywhere)

And which of these games are going to be used to blood Marshall and various other young players? Because of course doing so in the 6N is total lunacy... :rolleyes:

totallegend

Legion2008 wrote: »

and with our remaining fixtures of the year we'd be hard pushed to get back into the top 8

Away to Enlgand
Away to New Zealand (3 times)
Home to South Africa
Home to Argentina

(is there a 3rd Nov International ... can't find it listed anywhere)

The New Zealand games will have minimal negative effect on our rankings; the fact that they are so far ahead of us and have home advantage means we could lose all three and only drop a fraction of a point.

However, we should be looking to beat South Africa and Argentina at home; since Argentina are likely to be our main competition for eighth spot, beating them would count double, if you get me. Beating SA would be hitting the jackpot in terms of rankingsm but it's all going to come down to the Argentina game really.

I had it in my head that we were playing one of the Pacific Islands this year, but I may be wrong on that.

MLC61

Podge_irl wrote: »

Because Scotland are worse then England and we have them at home.

From what I have seen to date, Scotland pose a greater threat to us than England. Also in classic management speak, surely we shouldn't look further than our next game?

JustinDee

totallegend wrote: »

The New Zealand games will have minimal negative effect on our rankings; the fact that they are so far ahead of us and have home advantage means we could lose all three and only drop a fraction of a point.

However, we should be looking to beat South Africa and Argentina at home; since Argentina are likely to be our main competition for eighth spot, beating them would count double, if you get me. Beating SA would be hitting the jackpot in terms of rankingsm but it's all going to come down to the Argentina game really.

I had it in my head that we were playing one of the Pacific Islands this year, but I may be wrong on that.

Autumn Internationals will be announced after the Six Nations has finished.

CatFromHue

MLC61 wrote: »

Also in classic management speak, surely we shouldn't look further than our next game?

Usually but with 4 games in 4 weeks against different levels of opposition this mighten be the best way to look at it.

irishbucsfan

Declan Kidney has announced his team to play South Africa in November:

Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Cronin, Court, Ryan, Wallace, Reddan, O'Gara, Fitzgerald

padraig.od

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Declan Kidney has announced his team to play South Africa in November:

Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Cronin, Court, Ryan, Wallace, Reddan, O'Gara, Fitzgerald

I'd say David Wallace will be straight back in

tolosenc

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Declan Kidney has announced his team to play South Africa in November:

Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Cronin, Court, Ryan, Wallace, Reddan, O'Gara, Fitzgerald

Ah no. He'll be sacked by then with a bit of luck!

Monty Burnz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Declan Kidney has announced his team to play South Africa in November:

Healy, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Cronin, Court, Ryan, Wallace, Reddan, O'Gara, Fitzgerald

Mike Ross might be rested by then. Hayes to get a recall.

phog

@emerald rugby tweeted

@RoryBest2 will equal Keith Woods record this sat as most capped Irish hooker. That's some achievement!

Congrats to Rory and the record to be broken the following week, hopefully with two wins under his belt as captain.

desertcircus

I honestly don't get this. Assuming that the average pro's Test career is eight years (which is probably optimistic), you're looking at pulling through a full squad of thirty over that time frame. Add two just in case, and we arrive at a need to produce 32 Test internationals - not 32 players who happen to have won a couple of caps - every eight years, or four new long-term picks every year. Of course, there's World Cup years, and the following year is ranking-points year, so those are crucially important and blooding players has to take a backseat. Let's say we blood two major new Test players in each of those years. In an eight-year cycle, that means the two off-years are your chance to produce serious contenders for the jersey. You need six new major players in each of these years; players you've tested in the right circumstances, not just players you've thrown in because of injury. In Ireland's case, this means that we need to produce twelve players between 2013 and 2014; to do that, we'll need to give at least sixteen players a serious chance to prove themselves (what that means is at least three games, picked to give them a chance; there's no point in giving a promising 22-year-old thirteen a starting cap against New Zealand) in those two years. I can't emphasise how important this is; it's the difference between being able to cope with an injury and having more or less no idea what's going to happen in the event of one. It's the difference between a succession plan and a total panic.

Paul O'Connell is out for the rest of the Six Nations, and we honestly have no idea who'll perform best in a green jersey out of Dan Tuohy, Mike McCarthy, Devin Toner and Ryan Caldwell, because we've made virtually zero effort to give those players a chance to show what they can do. We don't know whether to select Peter O'Mahony or Chris Henry, because the management team might never have even bothered playing Sean O'Brien if it hadn't been for an injury crisis. Both Conor Murray and Eoin Reddan got their serious shots at the number nine jersey only once their predecessor had imploded spectacularly, at which point they were handed their first real chance at the biggest competition in the world. Brian O'Driscoll is out and Gordon Darcy is in poor form and we have absolutely no idea what to do about the midfield because the management have quite literally never planned for it. It's a shocking, abysmal failure to look past the next game, and as long as it remains the same we'll shoot no higher than a few Triple Crowns and a Six Nations title once every few decades. We might as well forget the World Cup completely.

By the end of 2014, the Ireland management need to know how Sherry, Strauss, Hagan, Toner, McCarthy, Tuohy, Ruddock, Ryan, Henry, Marshall, Madigan, O'Malley, McFadden, Spence, Cave, Gilroy, Kearney Jr, Zebo and Jones are likely to do in an Ireland jersey at the deep end. We should be looking into the Six Nations 2015 knowing EXACTLY what those players' strengths and weaknesses are at Test level, who they need to be partnered with if they're still wet behind the ears, and what kind of gameplan they're best suited to.

In reality, of the nineteen players named above, I'll be genuinely astonished if half of them get five games in those two years without getting their chance due to injury to the established first (and probably second) choices.