Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

2010 wasn't the first time SOB lookked great for leinster though.

Also, people weeent looking for him to start, just to be in the squad ahead of Denis Leamy.

Why wasn't Mike Ross in the squad?

we talking about the season that sob filled in for jennings when he was suspended and was dropped by leinster to the bench as soon as jennings came back even though jennings hadn't played for 3 months?

don't think sob had any Heineken cup experience playing at 8 whereas leamy had international experience at 6 and 8 so would have been a better bench option then.

ross - presumably because he hadn't been playing much up to a few weeks before the AIs and he was going to have to last the full 80 mins. then buckley had been excellent on the tour that summer so he wasn't undeserving.

That was the season before.

Sean OBriens 2010 involved becoming a first team player (he was still young remember) and then breaking his leg against the Scarlets. Steven Keogh then filled in for him (admirably). He wasn't "dropped."

Then he came back from the injury, took his place in the first team once again and was man if the match repeatedly. Denis Leamy on the other hand could barely string a few games together without getting injured.



On the other hand Mike Ross was clearly the best (only serviceable) Tighthead in the country and Roly Meates went as far as to write an article in the IT about how his noninclusion was a joke.



Then of course after that there's the continual overlooking of Eoin Reddan which is consistently prooved to be a ridiculously damaging piece of childishness and begrudgery.

Is it April yet?

Cpt_Blackbeard

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

From what I remember, Buckley fully deserved to be starting in the AIs. He was phenomenal against the all blacks and looked to be finally fulfilling his potential. He was solid in the AIs. It was the Ospreys game that signified the start of his implosion.

my point, quite clearly written above, was that the tour was a tour, and the AIs were the AIs. Where there was a better player available for the AIs (POC and DOC over Ed and Dan), they were selected.

However, considering the start of the season that Hayes / Buckley / Ross had had, it was barmy to have Ross at the bottom of the pecking order for THs.

Buckley's infamous one off game vs the ABs was that, a one off. I once threw 3 treble twentys in a row. I'm below terrible at darts though.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Tuohy

Ed O'Donoghue

now shut up

eh, did i say tuohy wasn't capped against NZ? He has two caps - v. NZ in the summer and against aus in the AIs. you were claiming he didn't get a look-in in the AIs.

ed o'donoghue still hasn't been capped for Ireland :rolleyes:

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

eh, did i say tuohy wasn't capped against NZ? He has two caps - v. NZ in the summer and against aus in the AIs. you were claiming he didn't get a look-in in the AIs.

ed o'donoghue still hasn't been capped for Ireland :rolleyes:

Did they play on the tour, and were they replaced by other players that had outperformed them given the season that started before the AIs took place?

Roll your eyes elsewhere if you're going to try rubbish someone's point with deluded nonsense.

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

However, considering the start of the season that Hayes / Buckley / Ross had had, it was barmy to have Ross at the bottom of the pecking order for THs.

Buckley's infamous one off game vs the ABs was that, a one off. I once threw 3 treble twentys in a row. I'm below terrible at darts though.

Buckley was pretty handy in the home Toulon game too, he did look like he'd turned a corner in his consistency to some degree.

Ross was a better scrummager but he still had plenty of holes in his loose game i.e. I'd have preferred ROG taking the ball into contact than Ross.

leftleg

CatFromHue wrote: »

Buckley was pretty handy in the home Toulon game too, he did look like he'd turned a corner in his consistency to some degree.

Ross was a better scrummager but he still had plenty of holes in his loose game i.e. I'd have preferred ROG taking the ball into contact than Ross.

Toulon were pathetic in that game; I could have played well in that game; complete false dawn

When you have Healy, Ferris and SOB taking ball on, idealyall he should be doing is locking a scrum; anything after that is a bonus

Podge_irl

The Buckley call wasn't the worst. He had put in a few solid performances. Selecting Hayes was the single stupidest thing Kidney has ever done.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That was the season before.

Sean OBriens 2010 involved becoming a first team player (he was still young remember) and then breaking his leg against the Scarlets. Steven Keogh then filled in for him (admirably). He wasn't "dropped."

I know he was young - he still is .

He was dropped to the bench as soon as Jennings came back from his suspension in January. He had done brilliantly for leinster, but he was still dropped for jennings when it came to it.

to clarify:
09/10/09 L v Lon Irish = bench (jennings cited)
17/10/09 Brive v Leinster = start at 7

21/11/2009 Ireland v fiji = sub
28/11/2009 Ireland v SA = sub

12/12/09 scarlets v L = start at 7
19/12/09 L v scarlets = start at 7

16/01/10 L v Brive = sub (jennings started)
23/01/10 Lon Ir v L = sub (jennings started)

06/02/2010 Ireland v Italy (sub)

20/02/2010 L v scarlets (got injured - out for the rest of the season).

Then he came back from the injury, took his place in the first team once again and was man if the match repeatedly. Denis Leamy on the other hand could barely string a few games together without getting injured.

He came back the following season (10/11) and started the game at 7 against samoa (where according to that article posted, he wasn't great). Up to this stage he had not played any HC rugby at 8 whereas Leamy had.
As soon as he did have experience playing at 8 (which he got against saracens & racing when heislip was injured), he started at 8 for Ireland against Italy in the 6Ns, and he started the rest of the 6Ns games at 6 in the absense of Ferris, putting Leamy on the bench.

On the other hand Mike Ross was clearly the best (only serviceable) Tighthead in the country and Roly Meates went as far as to write an article in the IT about how his noninclusion was a joke.

link please

Then of course after that there's the continual overlooking of Eoin Reddan which is consistently prooved to be a ridiculously damaging piece of childishness and begrudgery.

were you one of the ones going on about geordan murphy being ignored by ireland (with 74 caps). reddan has 40 caps. some players would love to be contnually overlooked like that

CiaranMT

jm08 wrote: »

link please

It's behind a paywall, if it's this article: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/1120/1224283767132.html

leftleg

http://www.heineken.ie/heinekencup/news/501/tighthead-making-gains-as-a-loose-player/

Last November scrum guru Roly Meates was asked about Ross in this newspaper: “The criticism of Ross is he doesn’t get around the field. But it is harder to coach a fella who gets around the field to scrummage than the other way around.

“As far as I’m concerned you have to have a tighthead who can do the job.

“The better he is as a loose player is just profit.”

The coaching appears to be working. There was one busting run through the middle yesterday so that seems to be profit enough for now.

irishbucsfan

leftleg wrote: »

http://www.heineken.ie/heinekencup/news/501/tighthead-making-gains-as-a-loose-player/

Last November scrum guru Roly Meates was asked about Ross in this newspaper: “The criticism of Ross is he doesn’t get around the field. But it is harder to coach a fella who gets around the field to scrummage than the other way around.

“As far as I’m concerned you have to have a tighthead who can do the job.

“The better he is as a loose player is just profit.”

The coaching appears to be working. There was one busting run through the middle yesterday so that seems to be profit enough for now.

That is a section of the article. The whole thing was basically a comparison of the current Irish tightheads and he effectively said the only one who could scrummage was Ross and as far as he was concerned that is an absolute requisite. He said Ross's footwork was almost perfect or something like that.

Can only really vaguely remember it at this stage.

But in fairness at that stage everyone in the country knew he should be involved.


Sean O'Brien not playing wasn't nearly as obvious but was still stupid. You're saying he couldn't cover 8 on the bench... So did he magically learn how to play 8 between then and starting at 8 against Clermont in the SMM a couple of weeks later? If Kidney didn't know he could play 8 (and he along with everyone else did) then he's even more ignorant than I couldve imagined.

And any fool can see Kidney has continually overlooked Reddan, and their history can't he just a coincidence. Starts for Ireland v. England = only good performance of 2011 6 Nations. Starts for Ireland v. Australia = Historic victory. All while playing in the most succesful Leinster team of all time beside the other half of Ireland's half back partnership. It's not rocket science. Has Kidney ever started Reddan for more than one game in a row?

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

http://www.heineken.ie/heinekencup/news/501/tighthead-making-gains-as-a-loose-player/

Last November scrum guru Roly Meates was asked about Ross in this newspaper: “The criticism of Ross is he doesn’t get around the field. But it is harder to coach a fella who gets around the field to scrummage than the other way around.

“As far as I’m concerned you have to have a tighthead who can do the job.

“The better he is as a loose player is just profit.”

The coaching appears to be working. There was one busting run through the middle yesterday so that seems to be profit enough for now.

thanks.

---

irishbucsfan: On the other hand Mike Ross was clearly the best (only serviceable) Tighthead in the country and Roly Meates went as far as to write an article in the IT about how his noninclusion was a joke.

From the quote above from meates he didn't say that. how long did it take leinster to get ross moving around the field to an acceptable standard ?

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

http://www.heineken.ie/heinekencup/news/501/tighthead-making-gains-as-a-loose-player/

Last November scrum guru Roly Meates was asked about Ross in this newspaper: “The criticism of Ross is he doesn’t get around the field. But it is harder to coach a fella who gets around the field to scrummage than the other way around.

“As far as I’m concerned you have to have a tighthead who can do the job.

“The better he is as a loose player is just profit.”

The coaching appears to be working. There was one busting run through the middle yesterday so that seems to be profit enough for now.

thanks.

---

irishbucsfan: On the other hand Mike Ross was clearly the best (only serviceable) Tighthead in the country and Roly Meates went as far as to write an article in the IT about how his noninclusion was a joke.

From the quote above from meates he didn't say that. how long did it take leinster to get ross moving around the field to an acceptable standard ?

You havent read the article! You're just guessing based on a tiny segment.

leftleg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That is a section of the article. The whole thing was basically a comparison of the current Irish tightheads and he effectively said the only one who could scrummage was Ross and as far as he was concerned that is an absolute requisite. He said Ross's footwork was almost perfect or something like that.

Can only really vaguely remember it at this stage.

But in fairness at that stage everyone in the country knew he should be involved.


Sean O'Brien not playing wasn't nearly as obvious but was still stupid. You're saying he couldn't cover 8 on the bench... So did he magically learn how to play 8 between then and starting at 8 against Clermont in the SMM a couple of weeks later? If Kidney didn't know he could play 8 (and he along with everyone else did) then he's even more ignorant than I couldve imagined.

And any fool can see Kidney has continually overlooked Reddan, and their history can't he just a coincidence. Starts for Ireland v. England = only good performance of 2011 6 Nations. Starts for Ireland v. Australia = Historic victory. All while playing in the most succesful Leinster team of all time beside the other half of Ireland's half back partnership. It's not rocket science. Has Kidney ever started Reddan for more than one game in a row?

Nope everyones wrong except Kidney and jm; SOB cant play 8 never could;



And Reddan is also crap look

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You havent read the article! You're just guessing based on a tiny segment.

I know i havent read the article. All Meates offers there is a defence of Ross's lack of ability around the pitch which seems to have been a bit of a talking point back then. of course you haven't addressed the problem of Ross having to play the full 80 mins because you can't change your front row at 50 mins in international rugby.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

thanks.

---

From the quote above from meates he didn't say that. how long did it take leinster to get ross moving around the field to an acceptable standard ?

Ah yes. "mobility" is what kept Hayes in the team ahead of Ross.

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

Nope everyones wrong except Kidney and jm; SOB cant play 8 never could;

just shows one players injury is another player's opportunity. heislip's injury worked out very well for sob.

And Reddan is also crap look

thats a bit harsh on reddan:o

leftleg

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ah yes. "mobility" is what kept Hayes in the team ahead of Ross.

And lifting in the line out; that auld chestnut

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ah yes. "mobility" is what kept Hayes in the team ahead of Ross.

no, i'd say its was hayes contribution to the lineout more than his mobility. our lineout has been crap since Hayes retired.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

just shows one players injury is another player's opportunity. heislip's injury worked out very well for sob.

And that SOB can magically learn how to be a MOM player at international level at no. 8; another string to his bow eh; wonder how he is at cooking?? probably pick that up in 5 minutes too

Podge_irl

Our lineout was on the way done before Hayes retired. "Lifting in the line-out" is a particularly silly thing to base your prop selection on. There is also the fact that Ross is and was a far better lifter then Hayes was a scrummager.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

no, i'd say its was hayes contribution to the lineout more than his mobility. our lineout has been crap since Hayes retired.

see i told yeez

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

And that SOB can magically learn how to be a MOM player at international level at no. 8; another string to his bow eh; wonder how he is at cooking?? probably pick that up in 5 minutes too

jebus, it was italy and ireland scraped a win. parisse was man of the match.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Our lineout was on the way done before Hayes retired. "Lifting in the line-out" is a particularly silly thing to base your prop selection on. There is also the fact that Ross is and was a far better lifter then Hayes was a scrummager.

Still, for such a poor scrummager, hayes is a grand slam winning prop with over 100 international caps and a Lions Test win.


edit: should have included that he was the starting th for the WIN in Paris when brian odriscoll scored his hattrick.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

jebus, it was italy and ireland scraped a win. parisse was man of the match.

Sorry to repeat myself but no he wasnt

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

Still, for such a poor scrummager, hayes is a grand slam winning prop with over 100 international caps and a Lions Test win.

TOL is a grand slam winner as well and should have had lions caops except he got injured; stop it damn it, stop now

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Our lineout was on the way done before Hayes retired. "Lifting in the line-out" is a particularly silly thing to base your prop selection on. There is also the fact that Ross is and was a far better lifter then Hayes was a scrummager.

Our lineout looked really good when Cullen was in it in the 2010 6 Nation's. It's just that DOC isnt a brilliant jumper. I'm not saying Cullen is better than DOC btw

padser

jm08 wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

http://www.heineken.ie/heinekencup/news/501/tighthead-making-gains-as-a-loose-player/

Last November scrum guru Roly Meates was asked about Ross in this newspaper: “The criticism of Ross is he doesn’t get around the field. But it is harder to coach a fella who gets around the field to scrummage than the other way around.

“As far as I’m concerned you have to have a tighthead who can do the job.

“The better he is as a loose player is just profit.”

The coaching appears to be working. There was one busting run through the middle yesterday so that seems to be profit enough for now.

thanks.

---

irishbucsfan: On the other hand Mike Ross was clearly the best (only serviceable) Tighthead in the country and Roly Meates went as far as to write an article in the IT about how his noninclusion was a joke.

From the quote above from meates he didn't say that. how long did it take leinster to get ross moving around the field to an acceptable standard ?

Ross was, quite obviously, the only option capable of fulfilling the primary role of TH for Ireland (had Stan Wright been available I'd have been happy for him to be ahead of Ross).

Buckley being ahead of Ross was clearly an awful awful call by Kidney.

37 yr old Hayes ahead of him, both in terms of winning games in AIs and building for a WC 1 yr and circa 10 games away, was absolute insane. I honestly think that for that alone DK should not be in his job. It's among the worst / inexplicable calls I've ever seen a coach make (in any sport)

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Still, for such a poor scrummager, hayes is a grand slam winning prop with over 100 international caps and a Lions Test win.


edit: should have included that he was the starting th for the WIN in Paris when brian odriscoll scored his hattrick.

I wasn't aware that all players were able to play at the top for an infinite level of time.

My mistake.

Criticising the selection of John Hayes in 2010 has almost nothing to do with John Hayes of the early 2000s.

If Willie John McBride was selected to replace POC tomorrow, would you stick up for the selection based on how well he played "way back when"?

GerM

Deleted User wrote: »

If Willie John McBride was selected to replace POC tomorrow, would you stick up for the selection based on how well he played "way back when"?

Pfft. Doubtful....WJM played for Ulster.

Serious questions need to be asked about Donal Lenihan's continued omission from the side though. Clearly Feek's input is dictating that.