Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Risteard

Jones isn't in poor form. He's not ripping up the field but he's doing the basics pretty well. Which at this moment puts him ahead of anyone else, bar maybe Duffy for the WC. Kearney is obviously going to be given a chance in the warm up games to prove himself and regain his spot, but Jones is good enough to be back up.

irishbucsfan

I'd be quite surprised if Jones or Duffy is brought.

pajunior

val_jester wrote: »

That has to be the weakest excuse ever for trying to explain someone's poor form. People are able to judge the form of a player based on what they see him doing not by judging him in relation to the rest of the players on his team.

But he hasn't played badly. It has been completely over hyped that Fitz is in poor form. He simply hasn't ripped it up like he did two years ago. That doesn't equal bad, just average same as Jones.

In an ideal world I wouldn't like any player playing as well as those two going to the WC but the way it stands one of them will make it.

I'll leave that call to Mr. Kidney but he doesn't usually surprise me so I imagine it will be Fitz going.

Risteard

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd be quite surprised if Jones or Duffy is brought.

Well at the moment, we really only have two out and out fullbacks apart from those two. And they haven't played rugby in ages. The other options would be wingers playing out of position.

I wouldn't be surprised by Jones as think Kidney rates him pretty high. He played in the Churchill cup with minimal Leinster gametime.

Anyway, it all remains to be seen and will be clearer after the warm up games and the squads that are named for them.

Actually does anyone know when they WC squad will be announced and will it be before or after the warm ups?

pajunior

Risteard wrote: »

Actually does anyone know when they WC squad will be announced and will it be before or after the warm ups?

As far as I know its half way through the warm up games, but not 100% sure.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Risteard wrote: »

Actually does anyone know when they WC squad will be announced and will it be before or after the warm ups?

I'd have to say after the warm ups since they are somthing of a set of trials for the WC, not as important if the squad was already named

val_jester

pajunior wrote: »

But he hasn't played badly. It has been completely over hyped that Fitz is in poor form. He simply hasn't ripped it up like he did two years ago. That doesn't equal bad, just average same as Jones.

In an ideal world I wouldn't like any player playing as well as those two going to the WC but the way it stands one of them will make it.

I'll leave that call to Mr. Kidney but he doesn't usually surprise me so I imagine it will be Fitz going.

His poor form has been over hyped but you can't deny that he's not playing well. He has made an awful lot of mistakes this year and he has started overrunning passes again. He was lucky to keep his place in the Irish team for so long during the six nations and I feel McFadden would have been the better choice for Leinster.

Jones on the other hand has been playing well and doing all the basics of his job well. He made two poor passes against quins and everyone is shouting that he cant pass. The amount of poor passes Fitz through during the six nations was ridiculous and for a player of his quality it shouldnt be happening. Besides the quins match Jones' passing has been good.

val_jester

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I'd have to say after the warm ups since they are somthing of a set of trials for the WC, not as important if the squad was already named

I think I remember someone saying that the squad would be named after the first two games.

irishbucsfan

Risteard wrote: »

Well at the moment, we really only have two out and out fullbacks apart from those two. And they haven't played rugby in ages. The other options would be wingers playing out of position.

It doesn't really matter that much that Kearney hasn't played in so long. Murphy has been in full training for a few weeks now.

There are 106 days between now and our 9/11 clash against the Americans. In that time, every player in the squad has the same number of games to prove their fitness and form, apart from Munster/Leinster/Leicester players... they have 1 extra.

After Saturday, every player will have 2 months off. Form will go out the window. Playing fitness will as well. By the time the team walk out onto the pitch for the first test against Scotland it will have been more than 2 months since each of them last played. The team will be picked on training performances, and both Kearney and Murphy will be (and are now) fully fit when that training starts.

Unless both Murphy and Kearney pick up another injury between now and September I severely doubt Duffy or Jones will feature. Even if Murphy or Kearney are unable to travel/play I think Fitzgerald/Earls will be trusted as extra full back cover.

val_jester

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It doesn't really matter that much that Kearney hasn't played in so long. Murphy has been in full training for a few weeks now.

There are 106 days between now and our 9/11 clash against the Americans. In that time, every player in the squad has the same number of games to prove their fitness and form, apart from Munster/Leinster/Leicester players... they have 1 extra.

After Saturday, every player will have 2 months off. Form will go out the window. Playing fitness will as well. By the time the team walk out onto the pitch for the first test against Scotland it will have been more than 2 months since each of them last played. The team will be picked on training performances, and both Kearney and Murphy will be (and are now) fully fit when that training starts.

Unless both Murphy and Kearney pick up another injury between now and September I severely doubt Duffy or Jones will feature. Even if Murphy or Kearney are unable to travel/play I think Fitzgerald/Earls will be trusted as extra full back cover.

I hope to god, Murphy won't be involved, he was appalling for Leicester before he got injured and we've finally got rid of the defensive weakness at 10 no need to introduce one at 15.

irishbucsfan

val_jester wrote: »

I hope to god, Murphy won't be involved, he was appalling for Leicester before he got injured and we've finally got rid of the defensive weakness at 10 no need to introduce one at 15.

Well I guess we'll see what Murphy's up to in August. Fingers crossed. He's the best Irish full back of all time. We could really do with him in top form.

val_jester

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I guess we'll see what Murphy's up to in August. Fingers crossed. He's the best Irish full back of all time. We could really do with him in top form.

I'll presume that is sarcasm.

bleg

val_jester wrote: »

I hope to god, Murphy won't be involved, he was appalling for Leicester before he got injured and we've finally got rid of the defensive weakness at 10 no need to introduce one at 15.

To be fair Kearney's defence isn't the best at times either. I hope both get a chance to prove their form/fitness in the warm up games and wish both a speedy recovery.

irishbucsfan

val_jester wrote: »

I'll presume that is sarcasm.

Not even slightly?

If you don't think he is among the best, then you just haven't watched him play enough.

val_jester

bleg wrote: »

To be fair Kearney's defence isn't the best at times either. I hope both get a chance to prove their form/fitness in the warm up games and wish both a speedy recovery.

Kearney's defence is quite good and you don't see him falling off tackles like Murphy does. Murphy has been downward spiral for the last while and this year he was appalling and if he wasn't for his injury he would have been dropped.

val_jester

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not even slightly?

If you don't think he is among the best, then you just haven't watched him play enough.

I've watched him play plenty and he is a superb player at HEC and Aviva level but he never fulfilled his potential at international level and was never really first choice full back for Ireland. Dempsey and Kearney have both been preferred to him due to the fact the do the basics much better and don't harm their own teams chances.

irishbucsfan

val_jester wrote: »

I've watched him play plenty and he is a superb player at HEC and Aviva level but he never fulfilled his potential at international level and was never really first choice full back for Ireland. Dempsey and Kearney have both been preferred to him due to the fact the do the basics much better and don't harm their own teams chances.

That's not why they were preferred, but that's irrelevant. The fact is he is a superb player. He is a Lion who has scored 78 tries for Leicester (BOD has 50 at the same level).

Rob Kearney might well be better than him, but that's not the discussion. I'm saying that himself and Kearney should be well ahead of Jones/Duffy in the reckoning, which is why I doubt they'll be needed.

val_jester

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's not why they were preferred, but that's irrelevant. The fact is he is a superb player. He is a Lion who has scored 78 tries for Leicester (BOD has 50 at the same level).

Rob Kearney might well be better than him, but that's not the discussion. I'm saying that himself and Kearney should be well ahead of Jones/Duffy in the reckoning, which is why I doubt they'll be needed.

Well I disagree with you. Murphy is not the same player he once was, like I said earlier he was about to be dropped by the Tigers before he got injured. He's actually scored 88 tries for Leicester but since when do we use stats to decide the best players. I have already said he was a superb club player but he never fulfilled his potential at test level. Maybe things would have been different if he hadn't broken his leg against Scotland in 03.
I'm not denying he was a good player but he is not the best fullback Ireland have ever had.

irishbucsfan

val_jester wrote: »

Well I disagree with you. Murphy is not the same player he once was, like I said earlier he was about to be dropped by the Tigers before he got injured. He's actually scored 88 tries for Leicester but since when do we use stats to decide the best players. I have already said he was a superb club player but he never fulfilled his potential at test level. Maybe things would have been different if he hadn't broken his leg against Scotland in 03.
I'm not denying he was a good player but he is not the best fullback Ireland have ever had.

Well I actually said that he's the best Irish full back we've ever seen. Not the best full back Ireland have ever had... which are two quite different things.

Things would have been different for him if he'd had a run in the Irish team that didn't involve him being played at 11. That never happened though, mostly thanks to EOS. Dempsey was a class act though so no real complaints about that.

Stev_o

val_jester wrote: »

Well I disagree with you. Murphy is not the same player he once was, like I said earlier he was about to be dropped by the Tigers before he got injured. He's actually scored 88 tries for Leicester but since when do we use stats to decide the best players. I have already said he was a superb club player but he never fulfilled his potential at test level. Maybe things would have been different if he hadn't broken his leg against Scotland in 03.
I'm not denying he was a good player but he is not the best fullback Ireland have ever had.

As a Leicester supporter please tell me when we were going to drop our captain? And for whom did we think would preform better in his spot?

rockman15

val_jester wrote: »

Kearney's defence is quite good and you don't see him falling off tackles like Murphy does. Murphy has been downward spiral for the last while and this year he was appalling and if he wasn't for his injury he would have been dropped.

Dont know what games youve been watching! Kearney's defensive coverage is pretty pathetic for an international FB.

Frankly he wont get near the leinster 15 jersey next season (assuming nacewa stays in form). And I know a lot of fans would be happy for him to remain on bench.

sock puppet

rockman15 wrote: »

Dont know what games youve been watching! Kearney's defensive coverage is pretty pathetic for an international FB.

His defence is far better than Murphy's.

val_jester

Stev_o wrote: »

As a Leicester supporter please tell me when we were going to drop our captain? And for whom did we think would preform better in his spot?

Just a bit of gossip, a friend from over there was telling me. He was playing poorly and they were beginning to think about it. I probably put it a bit strongly, and I'm sure as a Leicester fan you'd agree that he was nowhere near his best before injury.

val_jester

rockman15 wrote: »

Dont know what games youve been watching! Kearney's defensive coverage is pretty pathetic for an international FB.

Frankly he wont get near the leinster 15 jersey next season (assuming nacewa stays in form). And I know a lot of fans would be happy for him to remain on bench.

I'd be shocked if he's not starting full back for Leinster next year, Nacewa is just as effective on the wing and Kearney was playing well before he got injured. His defence is fine, I think he just has issues with concentration sometimes and besides the Earls try in thomond a few years ago I can't remember any howlers.

CatFromHue

my prob with kearney is he never does a textbook tackle, he tends to jump on the guy. his passing isnt the greatest either. id have him ahead of murphy for ireland though.

when he comes back next year for leinster i'd expect him to get the 15 jersey or put serious pressure on to get it.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Kearney is terrible in defense, I wouldn't put a huge amount between himself and Murphy in that regard. He is also very slow for an international 15. He hasn't been training under Schmidt all year so I doubt that his offensive game has evolved much from spinning away from tackles, refusing to pass and garryowens. Personally, I don't think that he has proven that he can play the attacking game that Ireland are looking to play but, he would be brilliant in the Quarter Finals against SA.;They still rely heavily on a kicking game and he is (one of) the best in the world under a high ball.

I also don't understand why posters here have no problems bringing Ferris/Kearney/Murphy after long injury layoffs but, the same posters are totally against bringing Flannery, even if he proves himself fit in the warmups . He has been out longer than the rest but, they have all been out so long that doubt it would make an extreme difference.

irishbucsfan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Kearney is terrible in defense, I wouldn't put a huge amount between himself and Murphy in that regard. He is also very slow for an international 15.

That's absolute rubbish! Kearney is plenty fast.

Look at the try Juan Smit scored against us in the Aviva and look at the ground Kearney made on him. Not slow at all.

And he is perfectly capable of playing an attacking game. If you don't think Kearney is capable of playing an attacking game then it means you haven't seen him playing for Leinster (when he's in form).


As for Flannery, if he can prove his fitness (i.e. 4 Tests) then absolutely bring him. It just seems so unlikely, unfortunately. Just like Ferris.

jolley123

haha Oh my, the stuff being written about Kearney on here.

He's a poor passer. He's very slow for a full-back. He is a poor tackler. He's a poor attacker.

How on earth did he ever make it onto a rugby pitch!?

val_jester

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I actually said that he's the best Irish full back we've ever seen. Not the best full back Ireland have ever had... which are two quite different things.

Things would have been different for him if he'd had a run in the Irish team that didn't involve him being played at 11. That never happened though, mostly thanks to EOS. Dempsey was a class act though so no real complaints about that.

You did say of all time so I assumed you meant ever, I don't think he was treated harshly by EOS. Dempsey was the better option because Murphy just couldn't be trusted. Its a real shame because before he broke his leg against Scotland he looked like he was going to be one our best players ever. I remember him pulling off bits of skill that even BOD couldnt that year. I just feel he regressed after that and never matched the play of that year again in an Irish jersey.

May I digress and say that Dempsey was the better option purely because he was an absolutely outstanding full back, who was never ever caught out of position and read the game so well that even without the attacking prowess of other 15s, managed to score buckets of trys for club and country?