Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

leftleg

.ak wrote: »

leftleg, cpt, if you want to talk about players constructively that's fine, but less of the useless sniping at each other.. it's very boring the rest of us!

Still trying to get used to bring told what to do by ak lol

leftleg

Ruadhri Murphy wants to play for Australia badly;

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_7885454,00.html

bilston

leftleg wrote: »

Ruadhri Murphy wants to play for Australia badly;

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_7885454,00.html

Well he also says he'd consider playing for Ireland if we showed an interest. How good is he? Is he up there with Ross? Is he for example better than Declan Fitzpatrick who is probably Ross's back up now? Actually I know so little about him I don't even know if he's a LH or a TH!

Anyway Ireland seem to have difficulty picking players based in England so playing in a different hemisphere, in a different time zone and in a different season may not help his prospects for Irish selection all that much!

.ak

Didn't stop Michael Bent being lured up here for the exact same reason: we're light on props. If the IRFU rated him he'd be with a province I feel, or maybe he'd just rather play for Aus.

justsomebloke

.ak wrote: »

or maybe he'd just rather play for Aus.

It may just be a case that he may like to play in Aus. Ye the money mightn't be as good but the Aus lifestyle maybe something that he preferes, actually I'd say his biggest push to be Aus eligible is so that he doesn't have to take up a foreign spot at the club

.ak

justsomebloke wrote: »

It may just be a case that he may like to play in Aus. Ye the money mightn't be as good but the Aus lifestyle maybe something that he preferes, actually I'd say his biggest push to be Aus eligible is so that he doesn't have to take up a foreign spot at the club

Are there rules the sames as ours? Is it based on eligibility rather than what nationality you are? Are there caps non-eligible players in Aus teams?

CatFromHue

There's a pretty interesting article on the Demented Mole blog about some of the new signings by the provinces.

http://dementedmole.com/2012/07/09/overlooking-their-oversight-role-the-provinces-the-pcrg/#more-3050

Hagz

CatFromHue wrote: »

There's a pretty interesting article on the Demented Mole blog about some of the new signings by the provinces.

http://dementedmole.com/2012/07/09/overlooking-their-oversight-role-the-provinces-the-pcrg/#more-3050

Reading that just emphasises to me how beneficial the movement of players between provinces would be. If only It was Hudson instead of Poolman, a Munster lock instead of Roux...
I'd like to think that eventually it will happen.

profitius

Hagz wrote: »

Reading that just emphasises to me how beneficial the movement of players between provinces would be. If only It was Hudson instead of Poolman, a Munster lock instead of Roux...
I'd like to think that eventually it will happen.

The only players who move are those who are at least third choice in any position.

There also seems to be some barriers to moving to other provinces. Its like they have a hands off agreement except when it comes to Connacht. Ian Whitten going to England for example. I though Munster and Connacht would have signed him. IQ, young and can play in 2 positions.

Players themselves also seem reluctant to move away from home. Maybe they have things too comfortable.

As for the PCRG. Whats the point? Getting rid of Wannenburg and signing injury hit Nick Williams makes no sense at all. The IRFU have to introduce stricter conditions when signing foreign players. Its becoming a real problem for Irish rugby.

The HEC is also starting to get too big for its boots. All of Irish rugby revolves around it and its never healthy to put all the eggs in one basket.

CatFromHue

profitius wrote: »

The HEC is also starting to get too big for its boots. All of Irish rugby revolves around it and its never healthy to put all the eggs in one basket.

I agree about the HEC. Whatever peoples views on the English and French problems with the current format they have a very valid point in that Irish teams prioritise it far above the Rabo which they can't/won't do to their domestic leagues.

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

There's a pretty interesting article on the Demented Mole blog about some of the new signings by the provinces.

http://dementedmole.com/2012/07/09/overlooking-their-oversight-role-the-provinces-the-pcrg/#more-3050

great piece of writing as always.

Can't argue with any of the points. Would have liked the flipside detailed though, "instead of Quinn-Roux, Leinster should have been signing X", "instead of Stander, Munster should have been signing one of X,Y or Z". "Instead of Niall O'Connor, Ulster should have signed AN Other"...

leftleg

Kate Harsh Lightning wrote: »

CatFromHue wrote: »

There's a pretty interesting article on the Demented Mole blog about some of the new signings by the provinces.

http://dementedmole.com/2012/07/09/overlooking-their-oversight-role-the-provinces-the-pcrg/#more-3050

great piece of writing as always.

Can't argue with any of the points. Would have liked the flipside detailed though, "instead of Quinn-Roux, Leinster should have been signing X", "instead of Stander, Munster should have been signing one of X,Y or Z". "Instead of Niall O'Connor, Ulster should have signed AN Other"...

I brought this exact thing on the Munster forum a week ago; what exactly wad the point of signing stander; Munster have lots of young players dying to play first team ball yet as per usual instead of giving Irish youth ago Munster sign a young sa backrower; same with Leinster; Flanagan and to a lesser degree toner and Denton must b sscratching there heads; stupid signings which show the province's have near on zero faith in there young players coming through

Fireball07

leftleg wrote: »

I brought this exact thing on the Munster forum a week ago; what exactly wad the point of signing stander; Munster have lots of young players dying to play first team ball yet as per usual instead of giving Irish youth ago Munster sign a young sa backrower; same with Leinster; Flanagan and to a lesser degree toner and Denton must b sscratching there heads; stupid signings which show the province's have near on zero faith in there young players coming through

Stander is supposed to be ready for top class HC action right from the start. DOC2/Butler are a bit off that yet but I still expect them to get a lot of gametime this year.

Cpt_Blackbeard

leftleg wrote: »

I brought this exact thing on the Munster forum a week ago; what exactly wad the point of signing stander; Munster have lots of young players dying to play first team ball yet as per usual instead of giving Irish youth ago Munster sign a young sa backrower; same with Leinster; Flanagan and to a lesser degree toner and Denton must b sscratching there heads; stupid signings which show the province's have near on zero faith in there young players coming through

Do you know of any top ball carriers and tacklers that were available to provide the ballast that Munster needed? A signing like Stander was exactly what Munster needed:- We've lost one of the better tacklers in European rugby (Leamy) and one of the best carriers in World rugby (Wallace) prematurely in the last year. Stander will do well to come in and help lessen this impact.

Poolman and Roux were odd signings. Poolman will do a good job for Connacht, but there are plenty of IQ options who could have had a similar impact. Roux was just a bizarre signing. Leinster had a NIQ spot available, the money and standing in world rugby to lure in much better options. Should have signed Richie Grey when he was available.

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

leftleg wrote: »

I brought this exact thing on the Munster forum a week ago; what exactly wad the point of signing stander; Munster have lots of young players dying to play first team ball yet as per usual instead of giving Irish youth ago Munster sign a young sa backrower; same with Leinster; Flanagan and to a lesser degree toner and Denton must b sscratching there heads; stupid signings which show the province's have near on zero faith in there young players coming through

Do you know of any top ball carriers and tacklers that were available to provide the ballast that Munster needed? A signing like Stander was exactly what Munster needed:- We've lost one of the better tacklers in European rugby (Leamy) and one of the best carriers in World rugby (Wallace) prematurely in the last year. Stander will do well to come in and help lessen this impact.

Poolman and Roux were odd signings. Poolman will do a good job for Connacht, but there are plenty of IQ options who could have had a similar impact. Roux was just a bizarre signing. Leinster had a NIQ spot available, the money and standing in world rugby to lure in much better options. Should have signed Richie Grey when he was available.

Wallace and leamy have been gone since before the world cup; couldn't Munster have brought doc2 and butler through in that time?

Cpt_Blackbeard

leftleg wrote: »

Wallace and leamy have been gone since before the world cup; couldn't Munster have brought doc2 and butler through in that time?

Wallace was injured during the WC, but he was back playing in March. Leamy continued playing up until December. Both Butler and DOC2.0 played large roles in the B&I triumph and also played 10 games for the seniors last season. DOC2.0 especially was having an extended run in the team until he picked up an injury at the end of March.

Both lads are adjusting to the step up to professional rugby and will see significantly more gametime next year. Ignorance of the situation is the only way one could come to the conclusion that a player of Stander's ilk wasn't needed.

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Ignorance of the situation is the only way one could come to the conclusion that a player of Stander's ilk wasn't needed.

Get off your high horse Blackbeard, He's 22 and has 0 HCup experience and a couple of sub appearances for the bulls in super rugby; How the hell does that make him Munster's ball carrying saviour. Hes 188cm and 106kg; He's as big if not a bigger risk then trying to play the likes of Butler and DOC2.0 full time this season and getting them properly battle hardened. At least it would cost a fraction of the price of Stander.

If i'm ignorant as you say then ill go meet demented mole in ignorance land and you can teach us a thing or two from planet knowledge.

Clareman

Folks, attack the post, not the poster, if you want to have a go at each other there are loads of options, this thread isn't 1 of them.

Cpt_Blackbeard

leftleg wrote: »

Get off your high horse Blackbeard, He's 22 and has 0 HCup experience and a couple of sub appearances for the bulls in super rugby; How the hell does that make him Munster's ball carrying saviour. Hes 188cm and 106kg; He's as big if not a bigger risk then trying to play the likes of Butler and DOC2.0 full time this season and getting them properly battle hardened. At least it would cost a fraction of the price of Stander.

If i'm ignorant as you say then ill go meet demented mole in ignorance land and you can teach us a thing or two from planet knowledge.

Stander has just turned 22, he is a former Boks U20 captain, was involved with the Boks training squad this year, is considered by many as a future BOKs captain, and he has played 15 times for the Bulls (ESPN scrum stats) in the Super XV.

Of those 15 games for the Bulls, he has started 11 of those. Of the 13 games he played before his move to Munster was announced, he started 11 of them. After being selected on the bench for the first two games of the season, he then started the next 11 games on the trot. Not bad for a 21/22 year old playing for a top team of a nation which prides itself on forward dominance. Hopefully I haven't slipped up in the above.

Munster needed a reasonably big lump to help with the loss of Wallace and Leamy. Stander just so happens to be an identical size as Leamy and SOB. He is apparently heavier than Wallace, but Wallace has/had freakish power and pace. Admittedly, the stats are from Wikipedia, but they should give an insight.

On the face of it, he is imo the signing Munster needed. He may not work out, but that is the risk you take with every signing. Is there any player you could suggest that could be a better fit?

In this exchange, you've repeatedly gotten your facts wrong. The mole is just a blogger, who didn't see the need for Stander's signing; I am not aware of any facts he got wrong in the process. The term ignorance may well have negative connotations associated with it, but would you rather I stated that you have been "lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular" or "uninformed/unaware"?

Clareman wrote: »

Folks, attack the post, not the poster, if you want to have a go at each other there are loads of options, this thread isn't 1 of them.

Noted. I don't believe I've over stepped above and I'm finished with this now anyway.

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Stander has just turned 22, he is a former Boks U20 captain, was involved with the Boks training squad this year, is considered by many as a future BOKs captain, and he has played 15 times for the Bulls (ESPN scrum stats) in the Super XV.

Of those 15 games for the Bulls, he has started 11 of those. Of the 13 games he played before his move to Munster was announced, he started 11 of them. After being selected on the bench for the first two games of the season, he then started the next 11 games on the trot. Not bad for a 21/22 year old playing for a top team of a nation which prides itself on forward dominance. Hopefully I haven't slipped up in the above.

Munster needed a reasonably big lump to help with the loss of Wallace and Leamy. Stander just so happens to be an identical size as Leamy and SOB. He is apparently heavier than Wallace, but Wallace has/had freakish power and pace. Admittedly, the stats are from Wikipedia, but they should give an insight.

On the face of it, he is imo the signing Munster needed. He may not work out, but that is the risk you take with every signing. Is there any player you could suggest that could be a better fit?

In this exchange, you've repeatedly gotten your facts wrong. The mole is just a blogger, who didn't see the need for Stander's signing; I am not aware of any facts he got wrong in the process. The term ignorance may well have negative connotations associated with it, but would you rather I stated that you have been "lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular" or "uninformed/unaware"?



Noted. I don't believe I've over stepped above and I'm finished with this now anyway.

Wow Murray Kinsella and Wikipedia are all the rage now Blackbeard

What facts have i got wrong??

Again how does 15 super rugby caps and being the same size as SOB, Wallace and Leamy make him "the ilk" you mentioned above.

The bulls are giving him game time while Stagemann is injured; why aren't Munster taking the big lash with Butler and DOC2 instead of signing "the ilk".

Please pardon "my ignorance" or lack of knowledge btw

val_jester

leftleg wrote: »

Wow Murray Kinsella and Wikipedia are all the rage now Blackbeard

What facts have i got wrong??

Again how does 15 super rugby caps and being the same size as SOB, Wallace and Leamy make him "the ilk" you mentioned above.

The bulls are giving him game time while Stagemann is injured; why aren't Munster taking the big lash with Butler and DOC2 instead of signing "the ilk".

Please pardon "my ignorance" or lack of knowledge btw

Stander is an excellent prospect and he is what Munster really needed. They couldn't add another NIQ player to their roster, so they had to get the best project player available and that is Stander, or the other option would have been Liam Gill from Australia. Stander probably will leave after two years but if he performs well for Munster in his time here, he will have been worth the money.

Being the same size as SOB, Wallace or Leamy doesn't make him the same type of player as them. The fact that he has shown in his underage performances and in his performances for the Bulls this year that he can play in their manner would suggest he has the potential to be that type of player. He is very highly regarded in South Africa and his recent inclusions in training squads was a way at trying to get him to stay there.

Also, on the point of taking a lash on Butler and DOC2.0, the signing of Stander does not mean that Munster won't be including them more this year. Last year, the Munster backrow suffered a lot of injuries and even when those players return from injuries it is still an extremely weak area for them. POM will more than likely be involved with Ireland as the fourth choice backrow and this will mean that there will be time for all the backrowers. The plan would hopefully for them to slowly get rid of Coughlan and Ronan form the squad. So there is a good possiblity that by the end of the season the Munster backrow may end up as DOC2.0, POM, Stander and Butler on the bench.

Podge_irl

I don't know much about Stander but there was clearly a weakness in Munster backrow - or more accurately aside from POM a stunning averageness about it.

dtpc191991

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26818.php

Seeing as we're all so fussy about it anybody want a job?

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't know much about Stander but there was clearly a weakness in Munster backrow - or more accurately aside from POM a stunning averageness about it.

I've been saying since they signed JdV that they should have spent the money on a top class backrow. Tbh I don't know nearly enough about Stander to comment but the SA supporters on another particular rugby forum rate him highly and seemed fairly disappointed.

leftleg

danthefan wrote: »

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't know much about Stander but there was clearly a weakness in Munster backrow - or more accurately aside from POM a stunning averageness about it.

I've been saying since they signed JdV that they should have spent the money on a top class backrow. Tbh I don't know nearly enough about Stander to comment but the SA supporters on another particular rugby forum rate him highly and seemed fairly disappointed.

He looks like a great player but so to is jdv; hopefully he is the player that fits I'm seamlessly to the Munster set up. Can't wait to see him in action and hopefully everyone gets plenty of gametime.

Mr.Applepie

dtpc191991 wrote: »

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26818.php

Seeing as we're all so fussy about it anybody want a job?

Any chance we've advertised for a new attack coach?

.ak

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

Any chance we've advertised for a new attack coach?

IIRC Kiss was offered the role until 2013 to coincide with the end of Kidney's contract.

Could be absolutely wrong though, I just seem to remember it when they announced him as Gaffney's replacement.

theKramer

.ak wrote: »

IIRC Kiss was offered the role until 2013 to coincide with the end of Kidney's contract.

Could be absolutely wrong though, I just seem to remember it when they announced him as Gaffney's replacement.

It sucks, but it would be tough to get a backs coach in for less than a season, since all the other contracts end in 2013. Its obvious that with Kiss double jobbing, our defence has suffered, but because of the other contracts, I dont think we will see a replacement backs coach.
When Gaffney left, they should have brought someone in then....

CatFromHue

Brendan Fanning in todays Independent touched highlighted the situation of the Ireland team falling down the pecking order in Ireland at the moment.

"The success of our provinces in Europe has robbed emotional and financial support from the Ireland set-up. Grace and his pals made a horlicks of pricing tickets in the new stadium in 2010, and now they have to pitch the resale of the next wave of 10-year tickets to a public who have been battered by the economy, and have had their heads turned by another suitor -- namely Leinster.

You might never have thought we would arrive at a point where the second tier would outsex the top, but it's happening. And what unfolded in Hamilton two months ago didn't help."
----
"Unlike earlier when contributors from the floor were queuing up to pay tribute to the under 20 side's efforts in the Junior World Cup, nobody thought it worth pointing out that the senior tour had ended in the most humiliating defeat in Irish rugby history, and that maybe it was worth dwelling on for a moment.

Not a mention anywhere. Now there's a key risk for you. Go and sell that to the public."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/provinces-success-makes-international-side-a-hard-sell-3175446.html

He's right of course and Ireland playing only one glamour tie in November (against SA) certainly won't help turn the tide.

Jerry Flannery had a good interview in the same paper as well which I enjoyed reading. He also talked about how we need to more from the Senior team too.

"It got me thinking that we need to change the way we think about our national team. I'm not talking to the extreme of Roy Keane, but we definitely need to have higher expectations."

As for RTE!

"Someone who slates people should have a short shelf life as an analyst, but that's not the case. If you're paying a TV licence fee to RTE, they're supposed to put on a panel of experts but they don't. It's grand for me because I've played rugby and I can tell if a guy knows what he's talking about. But there are a lot of people who don't know rugby and they're listening to what he's saying and assuming he's a rugby expert when he's not and they deserve more than that."
:pac::pac::pac:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/jerry-flannery-we-need-to-have-greater-expectations-of-ireland-3175447.html

.ak

I think Fla and Horgan and COS should be the RTE panel, with Hook coming in to stir things from time to time.