Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

irishbucsfan · 22-09-2012 1:45pm

Clegg wrote: »

How would it be a joke? Furlong is rated as one of the best talents the Leinster academy has seen in years. And if you're good enough, you're old enough.

I never said that other options should be ignored either. I just can't see the harm in including someone like Furlong. He's recovering from shoulder surgery though so this training camp was probably too seen for him.

He has no senior experience. He has a long way to go to be good enough. The training camp would be of little benefit to him. He's about 5th choice this season at Leinster behind Ross, Hagan, Moore and Bent when he arrives. It would be a pretty crazy selection! There are plenty of THs who deserve it ahead of him.

GerM · 22-09-2012 1:47pm

Furlong hasn't even played AIL. It would be a joke. He is 19 years old and the highest level he has ever played is against other 19 year olds. Tighthead is the most physically demanding position on the pitch. I don't want to see him in blue this season let alone green. Lets leave him develop at the correct pace with Feek and Gibbes monitoring him and developing his game overall. Unleash him in a year or two when he's good and ready.

Hagan, Loughney, Fitzpatrick, Andress etc. are all guys who have significant experience and will be next in line behind Ross. After that we're looking at Macklin, Moore and Archer.

shuffol · 22-09-2012 1:53pm

Has Kidney mentioned Kilcoyne before in an interview or something, I'd have Dennis Buckley well ahead of him at this stage.

GerM · 22-09-2012 1:55pm

shuffol wrote: »

Has Kidney mentioned Kilcoyne before in an interview or something, I'd have Dennis Buckley well ahead of him at this stage.

He name checked him in the press conference when announcing the summer squad, if I recall correctly.

.ak · 22-09-2012 3:42pm

Lelantos wrote: »

A nice fruity red whine never goes amiss

Last warning to all - anymore jabs at posters will result in straight infractions.

Fishooks12 · 22-09-2012 4:05pm

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Iain Henderson?

Henderson has started games for Ulster, not comparable at all to Furlong who hasn't even played an AIL game

GerM · 22-09-2012 4:10pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Henderson has started games for Ulster, not comparable at all to Furlong who hasn't even played an AIL game

Henderson has started game for Ulster, singular. That one match was in a second string, dead rubber game at the end of last season. To be honest, as promising as he is, I don't think he has any business being in that squad either.

ed7890 · 22-09-2012 4:11pm

GerM wrote: »

He name checked him in the press conference when announcing the summer squad, if I recall correctly.

He was listed along with Paddy McAllister and Jack McGrath, as ones for the future if I remember correctly. Lets not get carried away.

Fishooks12 · 22-09-2012 4:33pm

GerM wrote: »

Henderson has started game for Ulster, singular. That one match was in a second string, dead rubber game at the end of last season. To be honest, as promising as he is, I don't think he has any business being in that squad either.

I'd agree, I'd have Toner there ahead of him. But his inclusion is more understandable than say that of someone like Furlong

GerM · 22-09-2012 4:38pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd agree, I'd have Toner there ahead of him. But his inclusion is more understandable than say that of someone like Furlong

True enough. I don't understand the absolute glut of blindside/lock players. Henderson, McLaughlin, McCarthy, Henderson, O'Callaghan and then we've Tuohy and Ryan who have filled that role in the past. Could easily ditch two of them and bring in a specialist lock.

[Jackass] · 22-09-2012 5:20pm

Great to see DOC2.0 in there, but I'm shocked Tommy O'Donnell, Kilcoyne, Deasy et al aren't in the squad as well - they've all played a game this season! How are they supposed to be fast tracked up to standard if they can't expect to be in the international training camps every time. What, are players supposed to earn that right now, rather than being selected on a wim of which province is desperately trying to be saved? That's a joke. Kidney out.

Tox56 · 22-09-2012 5:25pm

Henderson is there for the experience of being around the national squad, I don't think there's any realistic expectation of him playing, so in that regard I don't see how different he would be to Furlong, they were in the same U20 team this year.

That said I don't think it makes much difference, you could apply that logic to dozens of players not just Furlong. Letting Martin Moore tag along might not have been a bad idea, he's already made several Leinster appearances and has looked competent thus far, nothing wrong with giving a young and promising Irish TH some encouragement.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 22-09-2012 5:28pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Great to see DOC2.0 in there, but I'm shocked Tommy O'Donnell, Kilcoyne, Deasy et al aren't in the squad as well - they've all played a game this season! How are they supposed to be fast tracked up to standard if they can't expect to be in the international training camps every time. What, are players supposed to earn that right now, rather than being selected on a wim of which province is desperately trying to be saved? That's a joke. Kidney out.

Surely if Kidney had such an unwavering Munster bias, the form Irish 7 and 12 would be in the squad?

thomond2006 · 22-09-2012 5:29pm

I wouldn't read much into the selection for the AIs until the actual squad is confirmed.

leftleg · 22-09-2012 6:14pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

[QUOTE='[Jackass];80896181']Great to see DOC2.0 in there, but I'm shocked Tommy O'Donnell, Kilcoyne, Deasy et al aren't in the squad as well - they've all played a game this season! How are they supposed to be fast tracked up to standard if they can't expect to be in the international training camps every time. What, are players supposed to earn that right now, rather than being selected on a wim of which province is desperately trying to be saved? That's a joke. Kidney out.

Surely if Kidney had such an unwavering Munster bias, the form Irish 7 and 12 would be in the squad?[/Quote]

Who are the form Irish 7 and 12?

shuffol · 22-09-2012 6:16pm

ed7890 wrote: »

He was listed along with Paddy McAllister and Jack McGrath, as ones for the future if I remember correctly. Lets not get carried away.

McAllister had almost 2 full seasons for Ulster at that stage and Mcgrath had made a number of appearances for Leinster during the season and showed himself to be an excellent scrummaging prospect. Kilcoyne made one appearance and suddenly he'd been name dropped as a potential international.

I'm delighted to see Henderson in there, he looked the outstanding player at the JWC and no doubt some of the NZ and SA youngsters will be capped in the next year.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 22-09-2012 6:18pm

leftleg wrote: »

Who are the form Irish 7 and 12?

Luke Marshall and Sean Doyle

:D:D:D:D

and Marshall is in the squad

Blackbeard probably means Dougal and Downey though

Fireball07 · 22-09-2012 6:21pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Luke Marshall and Sean Doyle :D:D:D:D

and Marshall is in the squad

Blackbeard probably means Dougal and Downey though

Tbf based purely on games this season, I'd say Dougall and Downey are definitely the form 7 and 12.

The thing with Downey is that he's getting on...he probably should have been in Irish squads a few years ago, as an alternative to D'Arcy. Bit late to start introducing him now.

porterbelly · 22-09-2012 6:24pm

leftleg wrote: »

Who are the form Irish 7 and 12?

Johnny O Connor?

RoundBox11 · 22-09-2012 7:58pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Surely if Kidney had such an unwavering Munster bias, the form Irish 7 and 12 would be in the squad?

That's hardly saying much seeing as the best three 7's in the country haven't even laced up this season... Also the other 12's who have been playing are just breaking through and not even first teamers...

Benny Cake · 22-09-2012 8:09pm

RoundBox11 wrote: »

That's hardly saying much seeing as the best three 7's in the country haven't even laced up this season... Also the other 12's who have been playing are just breaking through and not even first teamers...

So you agree then....

ballygowan1 · 22-09-2012 8:35pm

Shambles of a selection. No Downey?? He is the form back this season. Surely we need to move on from Darcy? He hasn't played well for 3 seasons for Ireland.

Tox56 · 22-09-2012 8:37pm

ballygowan1 wrote: »

Shambles of a selection. No Downey?? He is the form back this season. Surely we need to move on from Darcy? He hasn't played well for 3 seasons for Ireland.

Except the last game he played

bilston · 22-09-2012 9:11pm

ballygowan1 wrote: »

Shambles of a selection. No Downey?? He is the form back this season. Surely we need to move on from Darcy? He hasn't played well for 3 seasons for Ireland.

Well the selection of Marshall may be an indication that Deccie is at least thinking a little bit about the future. Downey was impressive last week against Ulster in the first half, haven't seen Munster's other games though but the reports are positive.

ballygowan1 · 22-09-2012 9:16pm

So we are going to go against what every international team is doing and field a small 12? It's madness that Darcy is still getting the call

ballygowan1 · 22-09-2012 9:18pm

bilston wrote: »

Well the selection of Marshall may be an indication that Deccie is at least thinking a little bit about the future. Downey was impressive last week against Ulster in the first half, haven't seen Munster's other games though but the reports are positive.

He is just what Ireland need at 12. Hard running go forward ball. Not a knock on stepping machine who has lost all his pace.

RoundBox11 · 22-09-2012 10:19pm

Benny Cake wrote: »

So you agree then....

I never disagreed.

ballygowan1 wrote: »

So we are going to go against what every international team is doing and field a small 12? It's madness that Darcy is still getting the call

Not every team is fielding big 12s. Australia and France for instance. Teams were fielding big 12's before Darcy and BOD came in and revolutionized the midfield by being quick steppers. It doesn't mean you will be a better team because you have a crashball 12 and the fact of the matter is, apart from Downey we don't have any huge 12s really.
Darcy showed how valuable he still is to us in the 2nd test against NZ. His defence and workrate are far more valuable than size imo.

ballygowan1 wrote: »

He is just what Ireland need at 12. Hard running go forward ball. Not a knock on stepping machine who has lost all his pace.

Darcy is still a superior player to Downey imo. Downey is 31 years old and should have been introduced to the irish squad a number of years ago. Theres no point in bringing him in now when theres young guys who have the potential to be better.

If guys like Marshall, McSharry, JJ Hanrahan, Griffen etc can be nurtured at their respective provinces then we should have a decent ammount of options in a few years.

snow mad · 22-09-2012 11:27pm

RoundBox11 wrote: »

If guys like Marshall, McSharry, JJ Hanrahan, Griffen etc can be nurtured at their respective provinces then we should have a decent ammount of options in a few years.

Shouldnt we not be focusing on trying to win this years 6n wile giving younger players time from the bench downey would be our best option

Clegg · 22-09-2012 11:33pm

Thought ROG had another poor game this evening.

Its getting really hard to see the benefit of including him in Irish squads.

GerM · 23-09-2012 11:01am

Why would we call up a bloke who is on the verge of turning 32 and will never be international class? Downey has consistently done a certain job at a certain level. That has never equated to being international class. Luke Marshall is the right call.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Comments