Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

totallegend

Teferi wrote: »

Where will Kidney stand at the end of the November internationals if we perform badly as surely we must? At that stage the IRFU would have to consider buying out the rest of his contract and installing a real coach, right?

Couldn't see that happening tbh, I'd say a more likely outcome is to leave him in place for the 6N, install a caretaker (Elwood maybe) for the summer tour to USA & Canada and give themselves maximal time to find a permanent replacement.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get two wins in November; South Africa are not great and could well send over an experimental squad and who knows what shape the Argies will be in. My only hope is that if we did beat South Africa (and thereby secured the ranking for RWC2015), then he would really look to use the Argentina game to develop some younger players. The Fiji game won't be enough in that regard.

Assuming a win against SA, a team of:
Kearney, Gilroy, Earls, Marshall, McFadden, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Strauss, Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Henry, Heaslip
and a bench of Cronin, Hagan, Wilkinson, Toner, O'Mahony, Cooney, Madigan/Keatley, Cave
would have a fair amount of experience but no-one over 30 and should be capable of beating the Argies.

bilston

totallegend wrote: »

Couldn't see that happening tbh, I'd say a more likely outcome is to leave him in place for the 6N, install a caretaker (Elwood maybe) for the summer tour to USA & Canada and give themselves maximal time to find a permanent replacement.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get two wins in November; South Africa are not great and could well send over an experimental squad and who knows what shape the Argies will be in. My only hope is that if we did beat South Africa (and thereby secured the ranking for RWC2015), then he would really look to use the Argentina game to develop some younger players. The Fiji game won't be enough in that regard.

Assuming a win against SA, a team of:
Kearney, Gilroy, Earls, Marshall, McFadden, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Strauss, Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Henry, Heaslip
and a bench of Cronin, Hagan, Wilkinson, Toner, O'Mahony, Cooney, Madigan/Keatley, Cave
would have a fair amount of experience but no-one over 30 and should be capable of beating the Argies.

Anyone able to tell me why the Fiji game isn't a full international? Are they sending over their A team? If not I fail to see why it isn't a full capped international...unless the IRFU are trying to save money on bonuses or something...

thomond2006

bilston wrote: »

Anyone able to tell me why the Fiji game isn't a full international? Are they sending over their A team? If not I fail to see why it isn't a full capped international...unless the IRFU are trying to save money on bonuses or something...

Ireland cannot play full internationals outside of Aviva Stadium as part of their contract, so they have to 'downgrade' a game that Ireland play outside of Dublin.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ireland cannot play full internationals outside of Aviva Stadium as part of their contract, so they have to 'downgrade' a game that Ireland play outside of Dublin.

Ok that explains it...but it will be an international in all but name I assume? I suppose we won't really know until we see the teams named for it.

Are they concerned they would wouldn't cover their costs by playing this game at the Aviva? If any of the players who play against Fiji finish their career on 99 caps they'll look back at the Fiji game with mixed emotions...;)

Legion2008

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ireland cannot play full internationals outside of Aviva Stadium as part of their contract, so they have to 'downgrade' a game that Ireland play outside of Dublin.

Plus, as an A international there are no ranking points at stake .... we would of had none to gain against Fiji but a lot to lose ....

molloyjh

profitius wrote: »

What about all the tackles D'Arcy has missed?

You'd swear he was falling off tackles left and right the way some go on here. He's missed a few tackles. Who hasn't. In a side that's bereft of any ideas going forward and who have gotten progressively worse defensively I'm not sure how people can expect any player to look anything other than average under DK.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Downey's inclusion would also suit the Kidney tactic of giving it to our biggest player to run at the defense. His inclusion in midfield would free up one of Ferris/SOB/Heaslip to concentrate more on rucking etc.

Or maybe even POC heaven forbid. The fact that we're seeing him carry as often as he is points to a far greater issue that no player, Downey or otherwise, can rectify.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

...any change is change for the better at this stage.

I wouldn't agree with that personally. I think we need to identify what changes need to be made and implement them, not grasp at straws in hope. Which is effectively what we're all doing by discussing selection.

Teferi wrote: »

Where will Kidney stand at the end of the November internationals if we perform badly as surely we must? At that stage the IRFU would have to consider buying out the rest of his contract and installing a real coach, right?

Can't see him going anywhere. If the IRFU were willing to utterly write off yet another season a month ago then they'll be just as willing to write it off ofter the AIs.

All this talk of selection is a complete red herring. It doesn't matter a damn who takes the field. They'll still be playing under Kidney, with no dedicated attack coach and a defensive coach who can't focus on his primary job. I've decided that I'm all but giving up on the national side for now. I'll watch the AIs obviously, and hope we win, but I've no faith in the current set up. We have the 3 big sides now playing expansive rugby. It will be a damning indictment of Kidney and his staff if they can't utilise that over the next 6 months.

Hagz

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

Link.

That is literally a wish list of boards.ie posters.
"O'Gara's too old, we should see Madigan now!'
"D'Arcy's been playing muck, give Downey a chance!"
"Zebo!? What about Craig Gilroy!"
"Mike McCarthy's lacks potential, what about Devin Toner!"

Brilliant.

totallegend

bilston wrote: »

Ok that explains it...but it will be an international in all but name I assume? I suppose we won't really know until we see the teams named for it.

Are they concerned they would wouldn't cover their costs by playing this game at the Aviva? If any of the players who play against Fiji finish their career on 99 caps they'll look back at the Fiji game with mixed emotions...;)

I'd say that has a lot to do with it alright. Fiji came four years ago and the RDS didn't sell out so the Aviva in the "current climate" was a definite non-runner. Doesn't explain why they're calling it an Ireland XV rather than the Wolfhounds though, not that it really matters.

jacothelad

totallegend wrote: »

Couldn't see that happening tbh, I'd say a more likely outcome is to leave him in place for the 6N, install a caretaker (Elwood maybe) for the summer tour to USA & Canada and give themselves maximal time to find a permanent replacement.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get two wins in November; South Africa are not great and could well send over an experimental squad and who knows what shape the Argies will be in. My only hope is that if we did beat South Africa (and thereby secured the ranking for RWC2015), then he would really look to use the Argentina game to develop some younger players. The Fiji game won't be enough in that regard.

Assuming a win against SA, a team of:
Kearney, Gilroy, Earls, Marshall, McFadden, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Strauss, Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Henry, Heaslip
and a bench of Cronin, Hagan, Wilkinson, Toner, O'Mahony, Cooney, Madigan/Keatley, Cave
would have a fair amount of experience but no-one over 30 and should be capable of beating the Argies.

Why Elwood? It's bad enough that we are likely to see an avalanche of pro Bradley bilge in the Irish papers and other sports media in the run up to the replacement of Kidney without seeing another unsuccessful coach getting a leg up. If we have a new coach by then he should be in charge - or someone who has a record of success rather than a perrennial 'well done, nice chap, no resources, would be great if only...............' coach.

irishbucsfan

Because he's an IRFU employee and theyre not going to hire someone just to go to the States with the Wolfhounds/2nds.

The Kiwis won't be interested. Elwood, Ruddock or Clarke would seem the likely alternatives, or else Foley perhaps.

totallegend

jacothelad wrote: »

Why Elwood? It's bad enough that we are likely to see an avalanche of pro Bradley bilge in the Irish papers and other sports media in the run up to the replacement of Kidney without seeing another unsuccessful coach getting a leg up. If we have a new coach by then he should be in charge - or someone who has a record of success rather than a perrennial 'well done, nice chap, no resources, would be great if only...............' coach.

As bucsfan says below, he's on the payroll of the IRFU and could do the job with no disruption or buying out of contracts; any of the alternatives would need to be given the job permanently. Plus, it's the USA and Canada, it's not going to require a rugby mastermind.

If DK gets the boot in mid-March, that would leave two months to secure a new coach and that's probably not enough.

Podge_irl

Would like to see Ruddock personally but he'll likely stick with the U20s. El wood is freefor tthe summer so it'll be him. Course this is all dependent on the IRFU not actually renewing Kidney's contract.

dtpc191991

totallegend wrote: »

Couldn't see that happening tbh, I'd say a more likely outcome is to leave him in place for the 6N, install a caretaker (Elwood maybe) for the summer tour to USA & Canada and give themselves maximal time to find a permanent replacement.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get two wins in November; South Africa are not great and could well send over an experimental squad and who knows what shape the Argies will be in. My only hope is that if we did beat South Africa (and thereby secured the ranking for RWC2015), then he would really look to use the Argentina game to develop some younger players. The Fiji game won't be enough in that regard.

Assuming a win against SA, a team of:
Kearney, Gilroy, Earls, Marshall, McFadden, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Strauss, Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Henry, Heaslip
and a bench of Cronin, Hagan, Wilkinson, Toner, O'Mahony, Cooney, Madigan/Keatley, Cave
would have a fair amount of experience but no-one over 30 and should be capable of beating the Argies.

We'd be far better off developing Zebo, Conway, Gilroy or O'Dea. They have much more potential than McFadden.

Teferi

Hagz wrote: »

That is literally a wish list of boards.ie posters.
"O'Gara's too old, we should see Madigan now!'
"D'Arcy's been playing muck, give Downey a chance!"
"Zebo!? What about Craig Gilroy!"
"Mike McCarthy's lacks potential, what about Devin Toner!"

Brilliant.

Yeah, you'd have to be delighted with the changes, Downey, Gilroy, Toner and Mads have all been putting their hand up for a while.

It's sad that injury forces these changes though. They should have happened yonks ago.

irishbucsfan

Teferi wrote: »

Yeah, you'd have to be delighted with the changes, Downey, Gilroy, Toner and Mads have all been putting their hand up for a while.

It's sad that injury forces these changes though. They should have happened yonks ago.

We've been saying that about Kidney for years though.

lologram

Teferi wrote: »

It's sad that injury forces these changes though. They should have happened yonks ago.

What's saddest is that they will likely only get experience holding tackle bags.

Teferi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We've been saying that about Kidney for years though.

That was my point.

Wexfordboy89

is there a problem with kidney picking players on form?? i mean look how good madigan has been playing and he hasnt really got a look in.Tuohy and gilroy are two others that come to mind.too much picking players on who they are.

totallegend

dtpc191991 wrote: »

We'd be far better off developing Zebo, Conway, Gilroy or O'Dea. They have much more potential than McFadden.

Probably (although I think McFadden is underrated here), but my point is that it's possible to get a good mix of youth and experience and still pick 15 guys who'll be around for the next world cup.

RoundBox11

Hagz wrote: »

That is literally a wish list of boards.ie posters.
"O'Gara's too old, we should see Madigan now!'
"D'Arcy's been playing muck, give Downey a chance!"
"Zebo!? What about Craig Gilroy!"
"Mike McCarthy's lacks potential, what about Devin Toner!"

Brilliant.

Much and all as i fully agree with you, does it actually mean anything? It's just a 2 day training session. Sure they'll all be fit again by the time the actual squad is announced closer to the matches

Hagz

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Much and all as i fully agree with you, does it actually mean anything? It's just a 2 day training session. Sure they'll all be fit again by the time the actual squad is announced closer to the matches

I meant Brilliant in relation to the humorous side of it, not as in 'Yay!'. I doubt it means anything.

molloyjh

totallegend wrote: »

Probably (although I think McFadden is underrated here), but my point is that it's possible to get a good mix of youth and experience and still pick 15 guys who'll be around for the next world cup.

It's also crazy to think that in 8 starts and 6 sub appearances (all of which were of the grand total of about 10 mins or less) he's gotten 4 tries. Bearing in mind that in the same time Earls has had 19 starts and 3 sub appearances and has gotten 6 tries Fergs try scoring record is pretty decent. I think he is underrated here. He has his issues, and probably isn't an international winger (he's not really a winger at all IMO), but Drico has commented on his attitude and presence behind the scenes too. He seems to be a pretty positive player in that regard.

We'd all like to see the other lads progress but Ferg hasn't exactly been a total disaster in fairness. In the last 2 seasons Conway has been injured and Zebo has only been breaking through (and has made his way into the squad). O'Dea is only making a name for himself now (and is injured). So only Gilroy is left. I think most of us have been disappointed by his exclusion for the last year or two.

tolosenc

I think if Ferg was told that from here on in he's a winger, he could be a very good one.

But now that BOD has said he wants to play till the next RWC, he's going to be behind Earls, as well as the incumbent Ulstermen, and the likes of Gilroy and Conway.

profitius

McFadden on the wing could work. He should have moved/move to Connacht. They've been short of a good kicker for years and McFadden would be a regular starter there.

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

McFadden on the wing could work. He should have moved/move to Connacht.

I don't see why. He was reportedly the highest earning non-international at Leinster and has been vitally important to them the last 4 years. It may have benefitted Connacht, but would have done little for McFadden or Leinster.

GerM

profitius wrote: »

McFadden on the wing could work. He should have moved/move to Connacht. They've been short of a good kicker for years and McFadden would be a regular starter there.

He would have been and still would be nuts to go to Connacht which isn't to disparage Connacht. He has HEC medals. He went to a RWC. He started three tests against NZ. None of this would have happened if he went to Connacht and it would all stop happening if he went there. As a utility player, he gets plenty of game time at Leinster. He had 28 appearances in 10/11 and 21 last season (including 6 HEC starts) despite being at the WC and taking part in the 6N.

profitius

Thats correct. I came at it from an ideal world point of view ie McFadden moves to Connacht, get regular games while Connacht get very good player and a top kicker which helps them win more games and the Irish coaches would be watching.

Hagz

tolosenc wrote: »

But now that BOD has said he wants to play till the next RWC,

Eh, sorry, what?!

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

McFadden on the wing could work. He should have moved/move to Connacht. They've been short of a good kicker for years and McFadden would be a regular starter there.

What a crazy comment. He's started a HEC final.

tolosenc

Hagz wrote: »

Eh, sorry, what?!

Brian O’Driscoll rules out retirement and targets World Cup success - TheJournal.ie