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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #4832
    lologram
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭lologram


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Brian O’Driscoll rules out retirement and targets World Cup success - TheJournal.ie

    Hopefully it's actually just shoddy journalism.


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    #4833
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    They just played the interview on Newstalk. He said absolutely nothing about playing the next RWC. He said he wasn't targeting anything beyond the 2013 6N. Didn't even mention the Lions.


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    #4834
    jamiedav2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    What an utterly shocking article on the journal. Writer basically contradicts himself within about 10 lines!


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    #4835
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    jamiedav2011 wrote: »
    What an utterly shocking article on the journal. Writer basically contradicts himself within about 10 lines!
    He's probably a regular contributor on boards so :)


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    #4836
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Mea culpa, I just read the headline.


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    #4837
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I think the comments from him I read in the Herald say a lot really, especially the comment about the way the attack is being managed. You really do get the sense that they are all at sea there and the players are finding it really hard to get a single sense of direction and purpose. Pretty shocking stuff for a modern Tier 1 side. And a seriously bad reflection on the set-up as a whole.

    http://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/odriscoll-ireland-in-need-of-a-repair-job-3240091.html
    Drico wrote:
    O’Driscoll thinks that since Alan Gaffney’s departure as backs coach last year there have been issues regarding the Irish attack.

    “We’ve spoken about this since New Zealand,” he says, “and I think we just need to get clarity on who the point of reference is for our attacking game.

    “In New Zealand, I think we could just have gotten our detail a little bit better.

    “We’ve got to look at making sure that everyone is getting the same message. But, when you have Declan (Kidney) overseeing things, Les (Kiss) doing the backs, Gert (Smal) doing the forwards and Les also doing defence and you want to ask a particular question about an area of general attack, there’s a number of different people that you could go to there.

    “So it’s making sure that we’re all – coaches and players – collectively singing off the same hymn sheet...."


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    #4838
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    molloyjh wrote: »
    I think the comments from him I read in the Herald say a lot really, especially the comment about the way the attack is being managed. You really do get the sense that they are all at sea there and the players are finding it really hard to get a single sense of direction and purpose. Pretty shocking stuff for a modern Tier 1 side. And a seriously bad reflection on the set-up as a whole.

    http://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/odriscoll-ireland-in-need-of-a-repair-job-3240091.html

    Irish Hymn Sheet – Pass to a static POC, take contact behind the gainline, recycle slowly, repeat.


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    #4839
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    It's shocking that a backs coach gives a 6 month (IIRC?) notice and the side don't recruit a replacement but rather double up the defense coaches duties.

    That one still to this day irks me and I think we can all agree it was a complete failure of man management.


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    #4840
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    .ak wrote: »
    It's shocking that a backs coach gives a 6 month (IIRC?) notice and the side don't recruit a replacement but rather double up the defense coaches duties.

    That one still to this day irks me and I think we can all agree it was a complete failure of man management.

    I know we blame Kidney for everything but there is a problem with recruitment in the IRFU at the moment. We just don't know what the full story is but it's not the only position to have not been filled.


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    #4841
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    You wonder if the union has just become toxic, i.e; how attractive is a role within the IRFU to a qualified candidate?


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    #4842
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I know we blame Kidney for everything but there is a problem with recruitment in the IRFU at the moment. We just don't know what the full story is but it's not the only position to have not been filled.

    There are currently three positions open, two of which are actually brand new, following the relevant departments expanding.


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    #4843
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    JustinDee wrote: »
    There are currently three positions open, two of which are actually brand new, following the relevant departments expanding.

    It was my understanding that the head of fitness/conditioning had been vacant for a while now and that the scrum position advertised after the last 6 Nations game last season is still open.


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    #4844
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The thing that annoys me most is that POC is always there at first receiver even though he's a terrible carrier. Get him to do the clearing out and have Heaslip or Ferris do the carrying.

    It makes sense, so you know Kidney won't do it. He's actually incompetent.


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    #4845
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    JustinDee wrote: »
    There are currently three positions open, two of which are actually brand new, following the relevant departments expanding.

    Is one of the positions a backs coach?


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    #4846
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    .ak wrote: »
    You wonder if the union has just become toxic, i.e; how attractive is a role within the IRFU to a qualified candidate?

    Not sure you could say that the union has become toxic, but perhaps the coaching set-up has? It's no secret that Alan Gaffney didn't have the best working relationship with Kidney and I'd imagine elite coaching is a small parish. Word would get around so maybe the job isn't as attractive while the current regime remains in place.

    That's all speculation of course. Maybe it was just the case that Kidney thought that Kiss was up to double-jobbing; if so, it's now patently obvious that he is not.


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    #4847
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    totallegend wrote: »
    That's all speculation of course. Maybe it was just the case that Kidney thought that Kiss was up to double-jobbing; if so, it's now patently obvious that he is not.

    It might not have been his decision!

    We just don't know.

    Brendan Fanning wrote an article recently highlighting that the head coach might not be as all powerful as he should be


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    #4848
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    I can only imagine he's not. Especially in an international setup. Especially when it comes to hiring and appointments - I'd say he has a large part to play there but I doubt he's calling the shots alone.


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    #4849
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    .ak wrote: »
    It's shocking that a backs coach gives a 6 month (IIRC?) notice and the side don't recruit a replacement but rather double up the defense coaches duties.

    That one still to this day irks me and I think we can all agree it was a complete failure of man management.

    For as true as that is the issue I was alluding to was that of the failure of the coaching ticket to clearly assign areas of responsibility. If the players have a question it is up to the management team to ensure that (a) they have clearly devolved roles to deal with it and (b) the players are aware of what that is. At least one of those is not true. And that's a failure of the management. It also begs the question about how clearly the coaches understand their roles.

    I'd dearly love for someone involved in the national set-up in some way, be that a player/coach/staff at the IRFU, to stand up and recognise we have a really serious problem and actually get off their arses and do something about it. We've been plodding along like nothings wrong for 2 full seasons now and we're going into our third. And nothing is changing. It baffles me how that can happen in a modern professional organisation.


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    #4850
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Got this from Planet Rugby:

    Kidney has confirmed that a new backs coach for the Irish team will not be hired this season.

    No scrum coach, no backs coach, no fitness coach. Surely this means Kidney will be leaving at the end of this season, right?


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    #4851
    Donald Coyle
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Donald Coyle


    Clegg wrote: »
    Got this from Planet Rugby:

    Kidney has confirmed that a new backs coach for the Irish team will not be hired this season.

    No scrum coach, no backs coach, no fitness coach. Surely this means Kidney will be leaving at the end of this season, right?

    Probably hard to fill any of these positions (esp. backs coach) as long as there are question marks over DK's future. IRFU won't want to fill a position now in case they need a new head coach after the 6N. Any new head coach will have his own ideas on who's needed in the backroom.

    No disrespect to LK, but I never understood how attack and defence duties could be combined... 2 completely different aspects of the game. Couldn't we have a stopgap solution to save this year's 6N, like the way Foley stepped in to cover forwards last year? Any provincial candidates out there? Apart from the obvious! (JS)

    Still begs the question why something wasn't done last year.


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    #4852
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Clegg wrote: »
    Got this from Planet Rugby:

    Kidney has confirmed that a new backs coach for the Irish team will not be hired this season.

    No scrum coach, no backs coach, no fitness coach. Surely this means Kidney will be leaving at the end of this season, right?
    Greg Feek coaches scrummaging.
    Dave Clark is the fitness coach.
    Les Kiss is backs coach.


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    #4853
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Donald Coyle wrote: »
    No disrespect to LK, but I never understood how attack and defence duties could be combined... 2 completely different aspects of the game

    To unlock a defence in attack, you have to be able to understand attack play and read it.
    Actually tenets of the game that are extremely interlocked.


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    #4854
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Greg Feek coaches scrummaging.
    Dave Clark is the fitness coach.
    Les Kiss is backs coach.
    Feek and Kiss are double jobbing.

    We've already seen that Ireland backs haven't improved one iota under Kiss. And then there was the disaster against Wales when we couldn't defend.

    Feek is on loan from Leinster. The fact that the IRFU are advertising for a scrum coach shows that they aren't happy with the situation either.

    Didn't now that they'd gotten a fitness coach though.


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    #4855
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    JustinDee wrote: »
    To unlock a defence in attack, you have to be able to understand attack play and read it.
    Actually tenets of the game that are extremely interlocked.

    60-0.

    We've been struggling badly to attack or defend. The sooner Kidney goes and we get a proper backs coach the better.


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    #4856
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Greg Feek coaches scrummaging.
    Dave Clark is the fitness coach.
    Les Kiss is backs coach.

    Dave Clark is Head of Fitness, Jason Cowman will be fitness coach to the national team.

    Les Kiss is either not up to it or is being stretched too thin.

    Edit: Brendan Fanning's take on fitness coach: http://brendanfanningrugby.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/cowman-leaves-leinster-for-higher-calling/


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    #4857
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    totallegend wrote: »
    Les Kiss is either not up to it or is being stretched too thin.

    I would say the latter. LK is a fine coach, and prior to Gaffney's departure I was fairly impressed with our defensive patterns. However, it's no coincidence since Gaffney's departure our defense has gone to muck and our attack is inconsistent.


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    #4858
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Kidney is finally looking to take a proactive and more seasoned approach to the Irish team according to David Kelly in the indo today

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/kidney-ill-run-the-shop-and-it-will-be-the-way-i-want-it-run-3241358.html

    "I'm really fortunate to have the quality of men with me. Titles are titles. I've had this structure in Munster where we've won before, guys doing defence also did the backs with me and then we had a collective wisdom along with that.
    "I'll run the shop and it will be the way I want it to run. I wouldn't envisage any changes."

    Wonderful, cant wait for November.


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    #4859
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    leftleg wrote: »
    Kidney is finally looking to take a proactive and more seasoned approach to the Irish team according to David Kelly in the indo today

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/kidney-ill-run-the-shop-and-it-will-be-the-way-i-want-it-run-3241358.html

    "I'm really fortunate to have the quality of men with me. Titles are titles. I've had this structure in Munster where we've won before, guys doing defence also did the backs with me and then we had a collective wisdom along with that.
    "I'll run the shop and it will be the way I want it to run. I wouldn't envisage any changes."

    Wonderful, cant wait for November.

    On one hand, you could say fair play, he's not shirking responsibility for the team and its results.

    On the other hand, those results have been atrocious for quite some time and he shows no sign of learning from his mistakes.

    It's getting to the point where a player revolt would be the best thing to happen.


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    #4860
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    totallegend wrote: »
    It's getting to the point where a player revolt would be the best thing to happen.

    If only Matt Giteau was Irish...


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    #4861
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    leftleg wrote: »
    Kidney is finally looking to take a proactive and more seasoned approach to the Irish team according to David Kelly in the indo today

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/kidney-ill-run-the-shop-and-it-will-be-the-way-i-want-it-run-3241358.html

    "I'm really fortunate to have the quality of men with me. Titles are titles. I've had this structure in Munster where we've won before, guys doing defence also did the backs with me and then we had a collective wisdom along with that.
    "I'll run the shop and it will be the way I want it to run. I wouldn't envisage any changes."

    Wonderful, cant wait for November.

    Munster were the team to beat back then, but that wasn't because of a class back line. That shows both that Kidney has been unable to grasp the simple fact that the game has changed and that his approach hasn't been working. It is the definition of insanity. How in Gods name can the IRFU let this happen? You'd swear they didn't give a monkeys about how the national side does.


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