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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #4922
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    leftleg wrote: »
    Lelantos wrote: »
    So, are we saying its all down to Kidney ¬ the fact that players are cheating him with horrendous performances & attitude?


    “I’ll take responsibility for everything that happens,” Kidney said"

    http://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/kidney-ignores-calls-to-bring-in-backs-coach-3241829.html
    Yes, what would you expect him to say?


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    #4923
    ray jay
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ray jay


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Yes, what would you expect him to say?
    "I quit."


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    #4924
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Lelantos wrote: »
    So, are we saying its all down to Kidney &not the fact that players are cheating him with horrendous performances & attitude?

    That’s a ridiculous statement. Even if it was true the blame would still be on Kidney for firstly losing the dressing room and secondly continuing to select players who “are cheating him with horrendous performances & attitude”.
    Your opinion, but even the most one eyed fan must recognise that certain players haven't performed as well for country as for their clubs in recent years & I really believe that the divide in the dressing room between club players still transfers to the international side. This isn't Kidney losing the dressing room, this is going on for years, any past player will tell you so. I just feel it is something that is glossed over. Perhaps the word cheated is too strong though.

    Even if that is the case it is Kidneys responsibility to deal with that. If a player is proving toxic to the overall squad he should be dropped. I don't think it really is though. If you see the banter between a lot of the players on Twitter it seems they all get on quite well. Obviously they aren't all there but a good few of them are.

    At the end of the day a lot of the issues we see are directly related to the coaches. POC at first receiver being a commonly used example. Another being the predictable nature of selections and substitutions that occur regardless of what is happening on the field. The reluctance to drop players who aren't performing even when other options exist (TOL being the best example) and now the insistence that changes aren't required when they blatantly are. These are all things that are down to the coaching staff. Players not performing well can certainly be as a result of issues with themselves. But when most of the players are playing at a lower level internationally than they are capable of you have to look at the common denominator.


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    #4925
    Mr.Applepie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭Mr.Applepie


    leftleg wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irfu-snub-irish-hopefuls-in-hunt-for-scrum-coach-3242146.html

    "It is believed that former Italian international and one-time Scotland scrum coach Massimo Cuttita withdrew his acceptance of the position last summer as he felt the role was ill-defined."

    Am I the only one who think Less Kiss could make an excellent scrum coach?


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    #4926
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    We've seen what these players can do when they are away from Kidney.

    Ulster reached the Heineken Cup final and Leinster have defined themselves as the greatest squad in the history of the competition. Test rugby is a few steps up from provincial level but it isn't so far ahead that our players should look completely inferior when they make the step up.

    Ulster and Leinster play well with ball in hand but when they play for Ireland the gameplan is to kick the ball as hard as you can. Thats the fault of Kidney and the coaches. We've stuck to the same gameplan since we won the Grand Slam. The game has moved on and he hasn't.


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    #4927
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Mr.Applepie wrote: »
    Am I the only one who think Less Kiss could make an excellent scrum coach?


    Yeah im all for Less triple jobbing, hes doing a bang up job with the double job situation as it is.


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    #4928
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,931 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    I've discovered how Deccer writes and delivers his speeches.Don't delete this just because it looks weird. Believe it or not, you can read it.


    I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the
    first and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
    taotl mses and you can still raed it wouthit a porbelm. This
    is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Sounds just like Deccie doesn't it except it makes sense and you can understand it.


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    #4929
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Yes, what would you expect him to say?


    "Im sorry" for starters


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    #4930
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    leftleg wrote: »
    "Im sorry" for starters

    Realistically what he should be saying is something like:

    "Yes we haven't been as good as we could be. We have to hold our hands up to that as a group, players and coaches alike. There are changes that we need to make to how we approach the game to ensure that we make the best of the talent available to us. We are in the process of doing this at the moment and believe that we will see an improvement in November. Rugby is an ever changing game and we've been somewhat slow to react to that in the last few years, as our results and ranking clearly demonstrate. It's time we rectified that now."

    Instead we got this (paraphrasing):

    "I'm the boss, nothing needs to change in the coaching set-up. The players need to find the passion to play for their country again."

    It's sad really given the stages of some of the players careers. I'm sure there are other things being said behind the scenes that we're not privy to. But nobody can expect us to pass judgement on anything other than what we see and hear. What's going on behind closed doors is an unknown we can't speak to.


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    #4931
    Donald Coyle
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Donald Coyle


    jacothelad wrote: »
    I've discovered how Deccer writes and delivers his speeches.Don't delete this just because it looks weird. Believe it or not, you can read it.


    I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the
    first and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
    taotl mses and you can still raed it wouthit a porbelm. This
    is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Sounds just like Deccie doesn't it except it makes sense and you can understand it.

    Right, so based on the collective wisdom of DK and his backroom, the first line in the attack playbook probably looks something like this:

    Gvie the blal to Pulaie at fsrit rvceeier so he can hit the dcek on cntaoct


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    #4932
    desertcircus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Lelantos wrote: »
    So, are we saying its all down to Kidney &not the fact that players are cheating him with horrendous performances & attitude?

    That’s a ridiculous statement. Even if it was true the blame would still be on Kidney for firstly losing the dressing room and secondly continuing to select players who “are cheating him with horrendous performances & attitude”.
    Your opinion, but even the most one eyed fan must recognise that certain players haven't performed as well for country as for their clubs in recent years & I really believe that the divide in the dressing room between club players still transfers to the international side. This isn't Kidney losing the dressing room, this is going on for years, any past player will tell you so. I just feel it is something that is glossed over. Perhaps the word cheated is too strong though.

    You'll need to specify who's not performing, the way they're not performing, and the possible reasons for it, explaining how all other reasons are less believable than them simply not bothering, before it's even approaching reasonable to blame the players.


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    #4933
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    desertcircus wrote: »
    You'll need to specify who's not performing, the way they're not performing, and the possible reasons for it, explaining how all other reasons are less believable than them simply not bothering, before it's even approaching reasonable to blame the players.

    Which is a completely fair point. The players are actually performing as individuals and have all shown moments of brilliance and massive intensity. However, collectively, they seem completely disjointed and struggle to implement an effective game plan on the game. Who, out of the Irish 15, is genuinely performing poorly as an individual relative to their efforts for their province? Is their some player consistently falling off tackles, shirking responsibility and dropping passes every game that I haven't noticed?


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    #4934
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Lelantos wrote: »
    I really believe that the divide in the dressing room between club players still transfers to the international side. This isn't Kidney losing the dressing room, this is going on for years, any past player will tell you so.

    What past Irish player of the last 7 or 8 years has spoken of a divide between the players based on what teams they play for?


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    #4935
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    GerM wrote: »
    What past Irish player of the last 7 or 8 years has spoken of a divide between the players based on what teams they play for?

    Rob Kearney


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    #4936
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Rob Kearney

    Quote? If it was the Enfield meeting then absolutely not.


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    #4937
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Rob Kearney

    Kearney never said the dressing room was divided.

    And what he did say almost offended the Munster players present, if they were putting in more effort for Munster than Ireland it was news to them.


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    #4938
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    No, but he did question why Munster players performed with more fire and passion for their club than when they played for Ireland....


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    #4939
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Horan took offence when ROG reported what was mentioned by one of his group. RK took ownership of the comment to explain it and spoke of his admiration of the Munster group and the atmosphere and intensity they could generate saying he wanted that too. DOC and Horan actually spoke of their admiration for RK in the media after that. All that was missing was the group hug. Some division.

    Somewhere along the line it has mutated into something completely different and inaccurate. It's the opposite of a division between the players. It was actually praising another province.


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    #4940
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    No, but he did question why Munster players performed with more fire and passion for their club than when they played for Ireland....

    And then Ireland won the Slam. Go figure.


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    #4941
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    Doesn't take much to get the Leinster mafia riled up.... :D

    Seriously though, if you want to believe there was zero hostility between Leinster and Munster players within the Irish camp over the past 7/8 years then fair enough....

    No matter what way you dress up Kearneys comments, he was intimating (rightly so, I might add!) that Munster cared more about their province than their country... He was later widely praised for having to balls to raise this issue & I've no doubt it helped bring the team together in that grand slam winning season....


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    #4942
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Doesn't take much to get the Leinster mafia riled up.... :D

    Seriously though, if you want to believe there was zero hostility between Leinster and Munster players within the Irish camp over the past 7/8 years then fair enough....

    No matter what way you dress up Kearneys comments, he was intimating (rightly so, I might add!) that Munster cared more about their province than their country... He was later widely praised for having to balls to raise this issue & I've no doubt it helped bring the team together in that grand slam winning season....

    That's not what anyone's talking about though. The dressing room wasn't "divided", that wasn't the problem they were addressing.


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    #4943
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Benny Cake wrote: »

    Seriously though, if you want to believe there was zero hostility between Leinster and Munster players within the Irish camp over the past 7/8 years then fair enough....

    Based on what though? The only ones who get riled are the small minded fans. There's zero evidence to suggest there is any animosity between players whatsoever.


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    #4944
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    GerM wrote: »
    Based on what though? The only ones who get riled are the small minded fans. There's zero evidence to suggest there is any animosity between players whatsoever.

    So anyone who disagrees with your view is small minded?

    Read my post again and try to understand the point I was making....


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    #4945
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    GerM wrote: »
    Based on what though? The only ones who get riled are the small minded fans. There's zero evidence to suggest there is any animosity between players whatsoever.

    So anyone who disagrees with your view is small minded?

    Read my post again and try to understand the point I was making....

    No, not at all. Those fans that feel animosity towards another set of fans are the small minded ones, I meant. I've never seen or heard of anything in relation to a player that suggests an issue between the provincial squads. It's just stirring.


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    #4946
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    So anyone who disagrees with your view is small minded?

    Read my post again and try to understand the point I was making....

    Tbh you need to read what Kearney said again and try to understand what he was saying.


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    #4947
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    danthefan wrote: »
    Tbh you need to read what Kearney said again and try to understand what he was saying.

    Me thinks it's you that needs to improve their understanding....

    What say we agree to disagree?


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    #4948
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Me thinks it's you that needs to improve their understanding....

    What say we agree to disagree?

    Of what?


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    #4949
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    danthefan wrote: »
    Of what?

    Rugby?


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    #4950
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    You're not making much sense. And you clearly don't understand the point Kearney was making. Oh well.


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    #4951
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    whiff of cordite on Gerrie's now infamous interview on off the ball last night

    http://whiffofcordite.com/2012/09/27/way-off-the-ball/

    What gets me is there are still a few followers and posters on the thread who seem to be defending both GT and the coaching setup.

    Radge Fan wrote
    "Fairplay to Thornley for not going along with what most of his customers want to read/hear. Brave of him."

    Fair play??
    Bravery??


This discussion has been closed.
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