Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Fishooks12

ray jay wrote: »

Look I'd love to see Marshall get his chance at some point but he has only played a handful of Pro12 matches, starting him against the likes of SA is not a smart approach. Look at what happened to Jackson when he was suddenly bumped to Ulster's first choice 10 just in time for the HEC final. The Fiji match would be a far better choice.

I'm not saying McFadden is necessarily the ideal choice for 12 either, but he'll do as a stop-gap.

Why have a stop gap? Why not blood a young guy with bundles of talent rather than an older guy who can't nail down the 12 shirt for his province and has never really shown much to show that he can be an international 12 anyway?

ray jay

I already answered that, it's premature to give Marshall an international cap based on his performance in the three Pro12 matches he's played this year.

Teferi

That's what easier matches are for lad, blood him against whatever island nation we are playing in the AI and then maybe against Italy or Scotland in the 6N.

GerM

ray jay wrote: »

Look I'd love to see Marshall get his chance at some point but he has only played a handful of Pro12 matches, starting him against the likes of SA is not a smart approach. Look at what happened to Jackson when he was suddenly bumped to Ulster's first choice 10 just in time for the HEC final. The Fiji match would be a far better choice.

I'm not saying McFadden is necessarily the ideal choice for 12 either, but he'll do as a stop-gap.

Generally, I'd agree with you in terms of throwing someone in with scant experience. However, we're fairly comprehensively screwed for talent at inside centre and, if we want to have someone there for the 6N, I'd bite the bullet now and give LM at least 2 of 3 starts this autumn and see if he sinks or swims. If it wasn't for injury, he would have a good deal more appearances for Ulster than he already does. He has had a touch of class at all levels he has played at thus far. Come the autumn games, I hope he'll have done the same at HEC level.

In relation to Jackson, it didn't work on that particular day but those experiences have really stood to him and he has come back this season playing excellent rugby. If you make the investment in someone that has the talent, they'll be better for it.

McFadden for his part, has been in poor form and looked uncomfortable in the centre for Ireland whenever played there previously. I'd rather see D'Arcy or even Downey there for a one off game if we had to.

GerM

Teferi wrote: »

That's what easier matches are for lad, blood him against whatever island nation we are playing in the AI and then maybe against Italy or Scotland in the 6N.

That is, to use the horrific politico phrase, kicking the can down the road. We all know that no player will be blooded in the 6N barring injury or a massive surprise. If we don't use the AI games to bring in an option now, we'll be waiting until next summer. If a guy cannot cut it playing against the Argentine back line, then he probably won't be able to cut it against the Scottish back line.

Sandwlch

GerM wrote: »

Wallace is too old.

The Drickster is even older.

Tox56

How has Marshall actually played so far this year? I haven't really seen him play, but I am surprised so many people are want to see him starting for Ireland already

bilston

Marshall can only be considered if he's starting at 12 in the HEC. I suspect Wallace will start at 12 against Castres and Glasgow.

bilston

Tox56 wrote: »

How has Marshall actually played so far this year? I haven't really seen him play, but I am surprised so many people are want to see him starting for Ireland already

He's played pretty well . He looks very much at home at Pro 12 level. Very strong defender and is very creative. That said he hasn't't been spectacular either. As I said above I think Wallace will get the nod for the European games.

GerM

Sandwlch wrote: »

The Drickster is even older.

Not really comparable, in fairness.

Fireball07

bilston wrote: »

Marshall can only be considered if he's starting at 12 in the HEC. I suspect Wallace will start at 12 against Castres and Glasgow.

I'd normally say that is true but of the 4 12s who are likely to be starting, 3 of them are over 30 and I don't think they are the answer at this stage. D'Arcy hasn't been great at international level in the past couple of years outside of a few isolated performances. Wallace is 33 and while talented, I think it would be regressive to start him at this stage. Same with Downey, he's never played international rugby and I just don't see the point at this stage.

McSharry is the other option but Marshall looks more talented than him. I think you might as well give someone like Marhsall a go.

GerM

bilston wrote: »

Marshall can only be considered if he's starting at 12 in the HEC. I suspect Wallace will start at 12 against Castres and Glasgow.

A fair point. I fear you may be correct but Castres at home is the best possible game to give someone their HEC debut aside from Zebre. They've one win away from home in the last 10 years in the HEC which was against Treviso a few years back. I hope PW steps on an upturned plug on the morning of the game.

profitius

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Why have a stop gap? Why not blood a young guy with bundles of talent rather than an older guy who can't nail down the 12 shirt for his province and has never really shown much to show that he can be an international 12 anyway?

A stop gap player should be Downey. If they want to look to the future than Marshall should be given a go. I don't want to see Paddy Wallace or McFadden at 12. McFadden never looked like passing D'Arcy in Leinster and Wallace is 33 now and was never first choice for Ireland. Cave at 12 could also be an option if he can play there.

We'll have to wait a season or two for the next wave of players coming through at 12. Marshall is realistically the only one at the moment. Hes a decent athlete and a good footballer.

ray jay

GerM wrote: »

Generally, I'd agree with you in terms of throwing someone in with scant experience. However, we're fairly comprehensively screwed for talent at inside centre and, if we want to have someone there for the 6N, I'd bite the bullet now and give LM at least 2 of 3 starts this autumn and see if he sinks or swims.

Well if you want to go that route, auditioning Marshall against Fiji with the idea of trying him in the Argentina match if he looks up to it would be my choice. Sadly I doubt Kidney will see things that way.

Of course, there's always the option of putting Earls and BOD in the centre again :pac:

Fireball07

Another (unlikely) alternative could be Madigan at 12. But I suppose if it doesn't happen at Leinster, it won't happen with Ireland.

BOD played at 12 a couple of weeks ago and did well, with Macken outside him iirc. Considering we have more promising 13s (Earls, Cave, EOM, Griffin), I'd nearly prefer that as a stopgap.

ray jay

Damn it Fireball, you've just reminded me that we're more likely to see a ROG/Sexton 10/12 axis than any other option (Paddy Wallace will have the outhalf bench spot of course).

Scioch

Marshall will do a job just as well as Downey or Wallace or McFadden I reckon. He might not be international standard but to be honest who of the other options is after all their experience ? IMO Paddy Wallace but I'd rather Marshall do the job as he grows into the role and improves (possibly taking the position outright in the coming years) than Wallace or Downey do a job as their careers wind down.

Cpt_Blackbeard

ray jay wrote: »

Damn it Fireball, you've just reminded me that we're more likely to see a ROG/Sexton 10/12 axis than any other option (Paddy Wallace will have the outhalf bench spot of course).

Considering how ROG hasn't started an Irish game in essentially 12 months, I can't see that happening.

irishbucsfan

I'd prefer to see BOD/Earls again. I thought it worked well. It gets our best players on the pitch as well, and Earls certainly deserves more opportunities.

We can then try a couple of options at 12 going forward, I would say Marshall deserves the first shot based on his form.

I know it's hard, but its time to start looking towards the BODpocalypse.

Clegg

I've consigned myself to the thought that ROG will play for Ireland this season, even though he's clearly past it.

We need someone else as Sextons understudy. Madigan, Jackson, Keatley, any of them will do. They're all better options than ROG now.

thomond2006

I'm assuming POC and Kearney are out. Also has Strauss indicated he is going to play for Ireland? I'll assume he is going to available, although I'm against project players/test players for hire. I've nothing against Strauss, it's the fact he can play for Ireland that I don't like. Also 23 man matchday squads are being trialled during the AIs so a second prop will be on the bench.

For South Africa:
Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, Tuohy, Ferris, Henry/POM, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Zebo*, Downey, BOD, Bowe, Earls

Bench: Strauss , Court, Fitzpatrick, McCarthy, POM/Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Gilroy

I would give Downey one chance before writing him off. He's definitely the type of player Ireland need against the Boks.

*or Gilroy/Trimble, I'm indifferent atm

For Fiji:
Kilcoyne, Strauss, Fitzpatrick, Ryan, Tuohy, Henderson, Henry, POM;
Murray, Jackson, Zebo, L Marshall, Cave, Gilroy, Earls

Bench: Sherry/Cronin, Court, Archer**, McLaughlin, DOC2.0, Marmion, Madigan, Griffin

**lol jk

Fireball07

On performances this season, I'd have Jackson as the no. 2 outhalf. He's been really really impressive. But I suppose we should wait for a few more games in the HC first.

danthefan

BOD and Cave - no thanks. Both outside centres. We saw how poor BOD and Earls was in NZ. We need to put a 12 at 12.

Teferi

BOD and Earls worked well, I felt. Both popping up and sharing duties at 12/13. Good for Earls as he is the immediate replacement for BOD.

danthefan

Teferi wrote: »

BOD and Earls worked well, I felt. Both popping up and sharing duties at 12/13. Good for Earls as he is the immediate replacement for BOD.

Sonny Bill had a field day, something he certainly didn't get against BOD and D'Arcy.

totallegend

Teferi wrote: »

BOD and Earls worked well, I felt. Both popping up and sharing duties at 12/13. Good for Earls as he is the immediate replacement for BOD.

I have a very different memory of it.

irishbucsfan

BOD and Earls worked well. Not sure exactly why people think they didnt. Don't know why people work so hard to come up with reasons to keep Earls off the Irish team tbh. They looked dangerous at times.

Their defense was very strong. The only issue either had was Earls over-pursuing that kick. It was the McFadden horror show and that big mistake from Darren Cave (just after he'd come on) that had us leaking tries, or rather gave Savea the opportunity to punish us.

I think D'Arcy/BOD will make a return in the AIs though. The IRFU love ranking points!

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

BOD and Earls worked well. Not sure exactly why people think they didnt.Don't know why people work so hard to come up with reasons to keep Earls off the Irish team tbh. They looked dangerous at times.

Their defense was very strong. The only issue either had was Earls over-pursuing that kick. It was the McFadden horror show and that big mistake from Darren Cave (just after he'd come on) that had us leaking tries, or rather gave Savea the opportunity to punish us.

I think D'Arcy/BOD will make a return in the AIs though. The IRFU love ranking points!

The difference when BOD and D'Arcy were re-united in the second test was night and day, nothing to do with keeping Earls on or off the team.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

The difference when BOD and D'Arcy were re-united in the second test was night and day, nothing to do with keeping Earls on or off the team.

In what way, at all, was it day and night?! :pac:

Ireland didn't even start playing well until Kidney pulled out his patented ROG/Sexton party trick with 30 minutes to go, by taking D'Arcy off.

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

BOD and Earls worked well. Not sure exactly why people think they didnt. Don't know why people work so hard to come up with reasons to keep Earls off the Irish team tbh. They looked dangerous at times.

Their defense was very strong. The only issue either had was Earls over-pursuing that kick. It was the McFadden horror show and that big mistake from Darren Cave (just after he'd come on) that had us leaking tries, or rather gave Savea the opportunity to punish us.

I think D'Arcy/BOD will make a return in the AIs though. The IRFU love ranking points!

I'd be very much in favour of Earls playing on the wing or at FB if Kearney is out injured.

The problem is that our best 13 is O'Driscoll; he is still a far better 13 than Earls. So if Earls can play at 12, great, but I don't think he can.