Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

CIARAN_BOYLE

dtpc191991 wrote: »

I know. Just wanted a young team. But can't think of anyone else. I suppose there is Deccie Fitzpatrick.

Moore if you want a young option thats ahead of Furlong in Leinster. I'd say one of Hagan/Archer/ Loughney/Fitzpatrick will start the fixture

Deano7788

dtpc191991 wrote: »

My team vs Fiji

1. Klcoyne
2. Strauss (Has he declared? anyone can fill me in)
3. Furlong
4. Touhy
5. Henderson
6. POM
7. Jennings (For some experience. I expect Henry to be starting big Games)
8. Heaslip (c)
9. P.Marshall
10. Jackson
11. D. Kearney
12. Luke Marshall
13. Cave
14. Gilroy
15. Earls (If fit)

16. Cronin
17. Healy
18. Ross
19. O'Callaghan
20. Dom Ryan (If fit)
21 Murray
22. Madigan
23. Jones

I wouldn't have Heaslip involved in this fixture at all. There's too big a drop between him and any replacement to risk it.

Kearney hasn't even played a game this season, I think he'd be better off staying in the Leinster environment. I'd have O'Halloran start instead; he's earned a chance.

I'd have Henshaw involved as well, whether starting or from the bench. I think he's more deserving than Jones at the moment, who's just back from injury. I'd also like to see Marmion and McSharry involved.

I don't think I'd risk Healy or Ross off the bench either with Argentina up the following week.

A development squad that would still be competitive v Fiji

1. Buckley
2. Sherry
3. Hagan :eek:
4. Touhy
5. Stevenson
6. POM
7. Henry
8. Butler (or else play POM here and let DOC2 play 6)
9. P.Marshall
10. Jackson
11. O'Halloran
12. Luke Marshall
13. Cave
14. Gilroy
15. Henshaw

16. Strauss
17. Kilcoyne
18. Court (as TH cover)
19. Henderson
20. Dom Ryan / DOC2
21. Marmion
22. Madigan
23. Morris

justsomebloke

As the Fiji game is only an Ireland XV game and not an Ireland game I doubt any first choice players will be in the squad unless in need of game time

irishbucsfan

THe team I think Kidney will play against Fiji would be something like:

(Assuming Declan's starting team against South Africa is:
Healy, Best, Ross, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Ferris, O'Mahoney, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney

Strauss, Court, )

1. Court, 2. Strauss, 3. Ross

16. Cronin, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Fitzpatrick/Loughney

Give Court and Strauss a start. He won't change the entire front row so Ross remain in the team, and there really isn't much merit in trying a new hooker unless you're putting him beside a regular TH. So I'd be happy enough with this selection, so long as KIlcoyne got a decent runout.

4. Ryan, 5. O'Connell

19. Tuohy

I really think Kidney will pick DOC against South Africa. I don't quite know why I think that, but I do. So this is an alternative selection and gives Tuohy a run-out.

6. O'Mahoney, 7. Henry, 8. Heaslip

20. McLaughlin

Ferris drops out for a rest and Henry comes in. McLaughlin comes onto the bench as POM will cover Heaslip at 8. He might also select POM at 8, but he has only shown for Munster that he is certainly not a natural 8 so I'd question that selection if he goes with it.

9. Reddan, 10. Sexton

21. Marshall, 22. Jackson/Keatley

Murray will still be the test 9, so this will give the second choice 9 a chance with Sexton still starting. Gives Marshall another cap off the bench and gives whoever the 3rd choice 10 is a chance (I'd doubt he'll use the backup 10 off the bench against SA unless we're somehow well ahead). Of course, there is also a strong chance he'll select O'Gara if he is fit in time.

11. Zebo, 12. Earls, 13. O'Driscoll, 14. Bowe, 15. Kearney

23. McFadden

I don't think the Earls/O'Driscoll experiment is over. This'll be the next chance they get imo, as he'll want to see them in action before the 6 Nations. In keeping with the idea of only making one change per unit, the back 3 remains the same with Zebo coming in, who deserves a start at some point. He could very easilly try out another 15, if he's sensible, but I don't think he will make that many changes

So

Court, Strauss, Ross, Ryan, O'Connell, POM, Henry, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Zebo, Earls, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney

Cronin, Kilcoyne, Fitzpatrick/Loughney, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Marshall, Jackson/Keatley, McFadden...

I think I might be over-estimating his conservativeness a little though.

Riskymove

justsomebloke wrote: »

As the Fiji game is only an Ireland XV game and not an Ireland game I doubt any first choice players will be in the squad unless in need of game time

while that may turn out to be the case, the only reason its called an Ireland XV was to allow the game be played outside Lansdowne Road.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

THe team I think Kidney will play against Fiji would be something like:

(Assuming Declan's starting team against South Africa is:
Healy, Best, Ross, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Ferris, O'Mahoney, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney

Strauss, Court, )

1. Court, 2. Strauss, 3. Ross

16. Cronin, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Fitzpatrick/Loughney

Give Court and Strauss a start. He won't change the entire front row so Ross remain in the team, and there really isn't much merit in trying a new hooker unless you're putting him beside a regular TH. So I'd be happy enough with this selection, so long as KIlcoyne got a decent runout.

4. Ryan, 5. O'Connell

19. Tuohy

I really think Kidney will pick DOC against South Africa. I don't quite know why I think that, but I do. So this is an alternative selection and gives Tuohy a run-out.

6. O'Mahoney, 7. Henry, 8. Heaslip

20. McLaughlin

Ferris drops out for a rest and Henry comes in. McLaughlin comes onto the bench as POM will cover Heaslip at 8. He might also select POM at 8, but he has only shown for Munster that he is certainly not a natural 8 so I'd question that selection if he goes with it.

9. Reddan, 10. Sexton

21. Marshall, 22. Jackson/Keatley

Murray will still be the test 9, so this will give the second choice 9 a chance with Sexton still starting. Gives Marshall another cap off the bench and gives whoever the 3rd choice 10 is a chance (I'd doubt he'll use the backup 10 off the bench against SA unless we're somehow well ahead). Of course, there is also a strong chance he'll select O'Gara if he is fit in time.

11. Zebo, 12. Earls, 13. O'Driscoll, 14. Bowe, 15. Kearney

23. McFadden

I don't think the Earls/O'Driscoll experiment is over. This'll be the next chance they get imo, as he'll want to see them in action before the 6 Nations. In keeping with the idea of only making one change per unit, the back 3 remains the same with Zebo coming in, who deserves a start at some point. He could very easilly try out another 15, if he's sensible, but I don't think he will make that many changes

So

Court, Strauss, Ross, Ryan, O'Connell, POM, Henry, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Zebo, Earls, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney

Cronin, Kilcoyne, Fitzpatrick/Loughney, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Marshall, Jackson/Keatley, McFadden...

I think I might be over-estimating his conservativeness a little though.

Christ I hope so. That's 8 of the starting 15 against SA! :eek:

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Christ I hope so. That's 8 of the starting 15 against SA! :eek:

I think he had 5 of the starting team against Samoa in 2010

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

THe team I think Kidney will play against Fiji would be something like:

(Assuming Declan's starting team against South Africa is:
Healy, Best, Ross, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Ferris, O'Mahoney, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Earls, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney

Strauss, Court, )

1. Court, 2. Strauss, 3. Ross

16. Cronin, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Fitzpatrick/Loughney

Give Court and Strauss a start. He won't change the entire front row so Ross remain in the team, and there really isn't much merit in trying a new hooker unless you're putting him beside a regular TH. So I'd be happy enough with this selection, so long as KIlcoyne got a decent runout.

4. Ryan, 5. O'Connell

19. Tuohy

I really think Kidney will pick DOC against South Africa. I don't quite know why I think that, but I do. So this is an alternative selection and gives Tuohy a run-out.

6. O'Mahoney, 7. Henry, 8. Heaslip

20. McLaughlin

Ferris drops out for a rest and Henry comes in. McLaughlin comes onto the bench as POM will cover Heaslip at 8. He might also select POM at 8, but he has only shown for Munster that he is certainly not a natural 8 so I'd question that selection if he goes with it.

9. Reddan, 10. Sexton

21. Marshall, 22. Jackson/Keatley

Murray will still be the test 9, so this will give the second choice 9 a chance with Sexton still starting. Gives Marshall another cap off the bench and gives whoever the 3rd choice 10 is a chance (I'd doubt he'll use the backup 10 off the bench against SA unless we're somehow well ahead). Of course, there is also a strong chance he'll select O'Gara if he is fit in time.

11. Zebo, 12. Earls, 13. O'Driscoll, 14. Bowe, 15. Kearney

23. McFadden

I don't think the Earls/O'Driscoll experiment is over. This'll be the next chance they get imo, as he'll want to see them in action before the 6 Nations. In keeping with the idea of only making one change per unit, the back 3 remains the same with Zebo coming in, who deserves a start at some point. He could very easilly try out another 15, if he's sensible, but I don't think he will make that many changes

So

Court, Strauss, Ross, Ryan, O'Connell, POM, Henry, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Zebo, Earls, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Kearney

Cronin, Kilcoyne, Fitzpatrick/Loughney, Tuohy, McLaughlin, Marshall, Jackson/Keatley, McFadden...

I think I might be over-estimating his conservativeness a little though.

You could well be right, but I actually think Kidney will fast-track Henderson. That's just a gut feeling but I think he'll play against Fiji and may even end up being involved against Argentina, probably from the bench. Other than that I think you'll probably be right and we'll see a fairly conservative selection against Fiji.

DeDoc

This is Kidney we're talking about

As such, I fully expect to see the following horrors:

1) Murray starting all games
2) O'Gara being (at least) on the bench as soon as he is reported fit
3) Reddan being used sparingly and with minimal overlap with Sexton
4) DOC being in each squad and starting at least 1 game
5) POM being the 7 for the big two games
6) Henry being sparingly used, if at all

I'd also expect the following (more marginal) calls:
a) Henderson not to get gametime
b) McSharry not to be involved
c) Marmion ditto

DeDoc

DeDoc wrote: »

This is Kidney we're talking about

As such, I fully expect to see the following horrors:

1) Murray starting all games
2) O'Gara being (at least) on the bench as soon as he is reported fit
3) Reddan being used sparingly and with minimal overlap with Sexton
4) DOC being in each squad and starting at least 1 game
5) POM being the 7 for the big two games
6) Henry being sparingly used, if at all

I'd also expect the following (more marginal) calls:
a) Henderson not to get gametime
b) McSharry not to be involved
c) Marmion ditto

probably 1/8 for the above to happen verbatim

Quint2010

Kidney will pick POC and Ryan as his starting second row I reckon. DOC doesnt deserve to be in the squad. McCarthy and Tuohy are ahead of him.

Fishooks12

Quint2010 wrote: »

Kidney will pick POC and Ryan as his starting second row I reckon. DOC doesnt deserve to be in the squad. McCarthy and Tuohy are ahead of him.

DOC is playing better than the two of them at the moment tbh

totallegend

DeDoc wrote: »

This is Kidney we're talking about

As such, I fully expect to see the following horrors:

1) Murray starting all games
2) O'Gara being (at least) on the bench as soon as he is reported fit
3) Reddan being used sparingly and with minimal overlap with Sexton
4) DOC being in each squad and starting at least 1 game
5) POM being the 7 for the big two games
6) Henry being sparingly used, if at all

At this stage, I'm totally resigned to 1, 2 and 3 being the case until Kidney's contract ends. Whatever Reddan-Sexton overlap we see will be when Sexton is standing at 12...

What annoys me is that 4, 5 and 6 are also correct. With Tuohy playing very well, there is no sense in DOC being in the first team any more. POM is a decent 6 or 8 but he has no pedigree at 7 while Henry has been absolutely flying. I expect Henry to start against Fiji.

Quint2010

Fishooks12 wrote: »

DOC is playing better than the two of them at the moment tbh

Thought DOC was terrible on Sunday. The guy did nothing out of the ordinary except drop passes.

Fishooks12

Quint2010 wrote: »

Thought DOC was terrible on Sunday. The guy did nothing out of the ordinary except drop passes.

You should watch the game again. He was very good, as he has been all season. He didn't drop one ball bar the crossfield kick and it's not his fault Penney wants his locks on the wing

Quint2010

Fishooks12 wrote: »

You should watch the game again. He was very good, as he has been all season. He didn't drop one ball bar the crossfield kick and it's not his fault Penney wants his locks on the wing

Sorry but I just don't get him. My abiding memory of him is hacking the ball dead against Australia in the WC when if he had picked it up he could have set up possession deep in the Australian 22. Alot of his caps have been on the coat tail of POC's brilliance.

irishbucsfan

Quint2010 wrote: »

Sorry but I just don't get him. My abiding memory of him is hacking the ball dead against Australia in the WC when if he had picked it up he could have set up possession deep in the Australian 22. Alot of his caps have been on the coat tail of POC's brilliance.

I don't really see how you could possibly form this opinion. DOC was excellent last weekend. He's in great form. Is it possible you are simply ignoring the facets of the game he excels in?

Quint2010

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't really see how you could possibly form this opinion. DOC was excellent last weekend. He's in great form. Is it possible you are simply ignoring the facets of the game he excels in?

What? His unseen work?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Quint2010 wrote: »

What? His unseen work?

the ruck the choke tackle ect

That said I do disagree with IBF he wasn't excellent last weekend but I don't think it was his fault that he was messing around on the wings

irishbucsfan

Quint2010 wrote: »

What? His unseen work?

Maybe unseen to people who don't know what they're looking at.

Excellent was an overstatement. He was good and I would have no real problem with him playing for Ireland, he is playing better than most of our other locks.

who_me

Quint2010 wrote: »

What? His unseen work?

He doesn't carry much, but he does a huge amount of tackling and clearing out at the breakdown (not to mention mischief on the opposition breakdowns - surprised he doesn't get carded even more often).

Quint2010

Maybe I am just tired of him being picked no matter what sort of form he is in.

Hagz

Autumn wish list
1. Kilcoyne to bench. IMO Court isn't going to exactly gain anything form coming of the bench in a couple AI games and we already know what he can deliver. For Buckley, I think it's too soon, but I would try him in the Fiji game. Kilcoyne has impressed me for Munster this season and he could benefit immensely from some international experience.

2. Marmion to at least get a game against Fiji

3. O'Gara to be left out. Based on form he doesn't deserve it and we have a number of impressive young fly-halfs banging on the door. I'm sure everyone has a different opinion on who should be the bench 10 but for me my blue goggles are dying to see Madigan in green. But I understand why it should go to Jackson.

4. McSharry to get some game-time. I don't think D'Arcy should be disposed of just yet, but if he displays poor form in green then there should be no hesitation in looking at other options.

That's it. I wonder how many of my wishes will come true.

Fireball07

Like I said in one of the other topics, I think DOC is the no. 2 lock in Ireland atm (behind POC). I'd say it'd be very tight between him and Ryan for a starting shirt based purely on form. Stevenson was also playing well but he was dropped for the big games. Bit of a big ask for Henderson to play there considering he's never played a senior game there.


2 from Tuohy, Toner and Stevenson to start against Fiji, and the other on the bench. Would be good imo.

I'd also include Buckley, Kilcoyne, Loughney, Marmion, McSharry/Marshall, maybe Henderson at 6.

It is hard to get the balance right, do you play people who will be subs for the big match or do you completely with a new team?

danthefan

DOC on the wing is completely daft. Did I see a suggesting in this thread he's playing better than Touhy? He is in his arse.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Fireball07 wrote: »

Like I said in one of the other topics, I think DOC is the no. 2 lock in Ireland atm (behind POC). I'd say it'd be very tight between him and Ryan for a starting shirt based purely on form. Stevenson was also playing well but he was dropped for the big games. Bit of a big ask for Henderson to play there considering he's never played a senior game there.


2 from Tuohy, Toner and Stevenson to start against Fiji, and the other on the bench. Would be good imo.

I'd also include Buckley, Kilcoyne, Loughney, Marmion, McSharry/Marshall, maybe Henderson at 6.

It is hard to get the balance right, do you play people who will be subs for the big match or do you completely with a new team?

Much of the opinions on DOC are based solely on lazy analysis. He doesn't go on barnstorming runs or lord it in the lineout, so he obviously isn't a good player; how many of of the same posters who who criticise DOC were singing Thorn's praises after his cameo in blue, I don't know.

DOC is the form player, but I'd still like to see Tuohy or Ryan included in the starting XV. Its not the same as at centre where we've no proven longterm backups to D'Arcy/BOD - both Ryan and Tuohy have have shown they can step up - so if DOC starts I'd have no qualms, but I'd still prefer if the players who'll be around for the foreseeable future are given a shot.

Fireball07

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Much of the opinions on DOC are based solely on lazy analysis. He doesn't go on barnstorming runs or lord it in the lineout, so he obviously isn't a good player; how many of of the same posters who who criticise DOC were singing Thorn's praises after his cameo in blue, I don't know.

DOC is the form player, but I'd still like to see Tuohy or Ryan included in the starting XV. Its not the same as at centre where we've no proven longterm backups to D'Arcy/BOD - both Ryan and Tuohy have have shown they can step up - so if DOC starts I'd have no qualms, but I'd still prefer if the players who'll be around for the foreseeable future are given a shot.

Ah yeah, you're probably right. I suppose there's not much difference between them anyway. But his early season form has been excellent.

Tox56

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Much of the opinions on DOC are based solely on lazy analysis. He doesn't go on barnstorming runs or lord it in the lineout, so he obviously isn't a good player; how many of of the same posters who who criticise DOC were singing Thorn's praises after his cameo in blue, I don't know.

DOC is the form player, but I'd still like to see Tuohy or Ryan included in the starting XV. Its not the same as at centre where we've no proven longterm backups to D'Arcy/BOD - both Ryan and Tuohy have have shown they can step up - so if DOC starts I'd have no qualms, but I'd still prefer if the players who'll be around for the foreseeable future are given a shot.

How could they possibly be the same people? Thorn doesn't lord in the lineout or go on barnstorming runs, so surely if these people were guilty of "lazy analysis" they wouldn't have rated Thorn at all.

wp_rathead

woah stall the ball lads, has no one been watching McCarthy this season?! how anyone can say DOC is Ireland's form lock is unfair when McCarthy has been playing exceptional all season. He is better in the choke tackle, more mobile around the park, and is at least equal to him in the lineout and scrum. His contract is up at end of this season and I wouldn't be surprised if Leinster snapped him up- he is exactly what they need

that said DOC is playing better this season than last season, so if he was deemed good enough by Deccie back then he is shoe in for the autumn internationals..