Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

goreyguy

No matter what happens this November, I want Kidney out.

Sinbad_NI

goreyguy wrote: »

No matter what happens this November, I want Kidney out.

Sign me up please. Absolutely 100% agree.

Fishooks12

goreyguy wrote: »

No matter what happens this November, I want Kidney out.

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Sign me up please. Absolutely 100% agree.

If he plays the right team with an attractive modern style of rugby I'd change my mind. But he probably won't

Cpt_Blackbeard

Fishooks12 wrote: »

If he plays the right team with an attractive modern style of rugby I'd change my mind. But he probably won't

Exactly. Its pretty pathetic that people want him out of the job regardless of how the Irish team performs and develops over the rest of the season.

Fishooks12

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Exactly. Its pretty pathetic that people want him out of the job regardless of how the Irish team performs and develops over the rest of the season.

Now tbh, I do want him out. And I sincerely doubt he'll adapt to the modern game after 3 years of ignoring it. But who knows

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Exactly. Its pretty pathetic that people want him out of the job regardless of how the Irish team performs and develops over the rest of the season.

Especially after everything he has done to develop the team since 09.

The likes of rog and doc etc.

Get up the yard will you , he's had ample time and we've been **** for ages under his watch.

RoundBox11

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Exactly. Its pretty pathetic that people want him out of the job regardless of how the Irish team performs and develops over the rest of the season.

IMO, if the 1st NZ test is anything to go by, we might see some experimentation.... i mean, did anyone honestly expect to see zebo start with earls at 12, tuohy in the engine room and Fitzpatrick starting too (ahead of mushy and archer). Not to mention McLaughlin overtaking POM in the 2nd test.

Im sure Kidney knows he's on the way out and will want to redeem himself if he's to save his name and get further coaching jobs. The best way he can do that is go down the "developing youth and building a squad" route by introducing a few new players, while still giving the team a chance to win.


At the end of the day. The style of attacking rugby we play is largely down to the backs coach (or lack thereof). I'd blame Gaffney and the IRFU in general (rather than Kiss who shouldnt have been given the role in the first place) for that moreso than kidney. Although he is the head coach and should be able to control the style they play...

Tox56

Kidney has a lot of damage to repair, it'll take a minor miracle for him to redeem himself, 4 wins in the 6N playing awful rugby isn't going to win over many. I think we're talking Grand Slam really.

leftleg

RoundBox11 wrote: »

IMO, if the 1st NZ test is anything to go by, we might see some experimentation.... i mean, did anyone honestly expect to see zebo start with earls at 12, tuohy in the engine room and Fitzpatrick starting too (ahead of mushy and archer). Not to mention McLaughlin overtaking POM in the 2nd test

Darcy and Ross were injured as was Boweand POC

Fishooks12

leftleg wrote: »

Especially after everything he has done to develop the team since 09.

The likes of rog and doc etc.

Get up the yard will you , he's had ample time and we've been **** for ages under his watch.

If he changes his tone completely, starts developing, getting results and playing the right type of game, however unlikely, why would we sack him? That's what the captain is saying

Now I know it probably won't happen, and I'd have him gone long ago, but if he does do all those things it wouldn't make sense sacking him

Don't know why you're telling the captain to "get up the yard" when that's all he's implying

goreyguy

The November internationals don't mean anything.. along with the summer tour. They should be used to develop younger players and try different combinations.

Now obviously it helps with confidence if we are winning but long term its more important to develop a style of play and identify some players who are ready to step in.

For instance, what will O'Gara show this November that we don't already know?
However players like Jackson and Madigan could use the experience to show what they offer.

Another Tom Court isn't going to show anything we don't already know, Kilcoyne on the other hand could.

Gordon Darcy is another example.

RoundBox11

leftleg wrote: »

Darcy and Ross were injured as was Boweand POC

True! But he could have gone with Wallace, Tony Buckley/Court, Trimble and DOC...

Fishooks12

goreyguy wrote: »

The November internationals don't mean anything.. along with the summer tour. They should be used to develop younger players and try different combinations.

Now obviously it helps with confidence if we are winning but long term its more important to develop a style of play and identify some players who are ready to step in.

For instance, what will O'Gara show this November that we don't already know?
However players like Jackson and Madigan could use the experience to show what they offer.

Another Tom Court isn't going to show anything we don't already know, Kilcoyne on the other hand could.

Gordon Darcy is another example.

They are actually pretty important in relation to our international ranking before the WC draw. But I agree there should be more experimentation than has previously been shown. Although the teams for NZ kind of picked themselves for the most part due to injury (bar one or two omissions)

RoundBox11

I hope the lads go all Movember like last time. Remember that giant handlebar on Tony Buckley in 2010? :P

Teferi

Fishooks12 wrote: »

If he plays the right team with an attractive modern style of rugby I'd change my mind. But he probably won't

I wouldn't. The Kidney regime has failed and no amount of turnaround will change that. He can feel free to go wherever he wants but I want him away from the international setup, Leinster players and any young players with a bit of potential.

Podge_irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Exactly. Its pretty pathetic that people want him out of the job regardless of how the Irish team performs and develops over the rest of the season.

1 good year would not cancel out the last 3 awful ones as far as I'm concerned. I also wouldn't trust any squad developments he makes in a panic as indicative of a fundamental change in his character.

Fishooks12

Teferi wrote: »

I wouldn't. The Kidney regime has failed and no amount of turnaround will change that. He can feel free to go wherever he wants but I want him away from the international setup, Leinster players and any young players with a bit of potential.

Podge_irl wrote: »

1 good year would not cancel out the last 3 awful ones as far as I'm concerned. I also wouldn't trust any squad developments he makes in a panic as indicative of a fundamental change in his character.

So if Kidney picks a decent team for once, plays a brand of rugby that suits the talent we have, and gets two good results you wouldn't at least give him the benefit of doubt to see out his contract?

Now I know it's a long shot, but if he did that I'd let him finish it out. Not that he will

leftleg

Fishooks12 wrote: »

If he changes his tone completely, starts developing, getting results and playing the right type of game, however unlikely, why would we sack him? That's what the captain is saying

Now I know it probably won't happen, and I'd have him gone long ago, but if he does do all those things it wouldn't make sense sacking him

Don't know why you're telling the captain to "get up the yard" when that's all he's implying

The captain said that its pretty pathetic that people want dk out no matter how we do in later games.

I've alot of time for you fishhooks but from previous posts you just never know what was meant by the captains original post other than what it says. Judging the post by its words comes no where near what you have pointed out.

For what its worth I agree with alot of your post but I'm afraid I'll never forgive dk for the 60-0. It's permanently broken as far as I am concerned.

Fishooks12

leftleg wrote: »

The captain said that its pretty pathetic that people want dk out no matter how we do in later games.

I've alot of time for you fishhooks but from previous posts you just never know what was meant by the captains original post other than what it says. Judging the post by its words comes no where near what you have pointed out.

For what its worth I agree with alot of your post but I'm afraid I'll never forgive dk for the 60-0. It's permanently broken as far as I am concerned.

Well I'd sack him in a heartbeat now if I could

But I wouldn't if he somehow becomes a good coach again in time for the AI's! However unlikely!

Podge_irl

Fishooks12 wrote: »

So if Kidney picks a decent team for once, plays a brand of rugby that suits the talent we have, and gets two good results you wouldn't at least give him the benefit of doubt to see out his contract?

Now I know it's a long shot, but if he did that I'd let him finish it out. Not that he will

To see out his contract? Yes, I'd let him (though I'm resigned to him finishing it out regardless). But there is literally nothing he could do that would make me want his contract renewed.

molloyjh

Fishooks12 wrote: »

So if Kidney picks a decent team for once, plays a brand of rugby that suits the talent we have, and gets two good results you wouldn't at least give him the benefit of doubt to see out his contract?

Now I know it's a long shot, but if he did that I'd let him finish it out. Not that he will

Can someone please explain to me why we are still having these conversations? Every series, be it 6 Nations, summer tours or AIs it's the same thing. Ah yeah he's been crap, but what if he suddenly isn't?

Any if us who were pessimistic before the start of the last 6 Nations were told we were being ridiculous as a ball hasn't been kicked. All our past experience with Kidney went out the window and a huge reset button seemed to have been hit by some.

We're now at it again. It's as if we should constantly erase everything that went before and there's still a possibility that everything will be ok. It won't. It wasn't last time. Lets stop living in a fantasy world. If my mother had balls....

goreyguy

The faster Declan Kidney is removed from his position the better for Irish Rugby.

Teferi

Fishooks12 wrote: »

So if Kidney picks a decent team for once, plays a brand of rugby that suits the talent we have, and gets two good results you wouldn't at least give him the benefit of doubt to see out his contract?

Now I know it's a long shot, but if he did that I'd let him finish it out. Not that he will

I was under the impression that he is most likely going to see out his contract anyway.

Not much more damage he can do being in charge for one final 6N tbh.

Fishooks12

molloyjh wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why we are still having these conversations? Every series, be it 6 Nations, summer tours or AIs it's the same thing. Ah yeah he's been crap, but what if he suddenly isn't?

Any if us who were pessimistic before the start of the last 6 Nations were told we were being ridiculous as a ball hasn't been kicked. All our past experience with Kidney went out the window and a huge reset button seemed to have been hit by some.

We're now at it again. It's as if we should constantly erase everything that went before and there's still a possibility that everything will be ok. It won't. It wasn't last time. Lets stop living in a fantasy world. If my mother had balls....

Ah, I always try and hold out some hope! However futile

Swan Curry

Teferi wrote: »

I was under the impression that he is most likely going to see out his contract anyway.

Not much more damage he can do being in charge for one final 6N tbh.

He could bring Mushy back,for old times's sake.

Quint2010

You know Kidney has been a tad unlucky. In the 2011 Six Nations Ireland were pretty much robbed of a Grand Slam and at the World Cup we went thru our group unbeaten only for him to mess up in a very winnable game against Wales. He has brought through Healy, Ross, SOB, Earls and Sexton. He won us a Grand Slam and he has come the closest of any Irish coach in the last 30 years to beating New Zealand. His big problem is that he hasnt been able to translate Leinster's form onto the international stage and unfortunately the graph has been on a downward curve since the World Cup. He has done some good things but it's time for a change. The sooner the better.

Podge_irl

I'm so desperately unsure as to whether the above is sarcastic of not.

tolosenc

Podge_irl wrote: »

To see out his contract? Yes, I'd let him (though I'm resigned to him finishing it out regardless). But there is literally nothing he could do that would make me want his contract renewed.

Yep. Way past the point of no return.

Short of winning the World Cup between now and next June, he has to go.

Fireball07

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm so desperately unsure as to whether the above is sarcastic of not.

Me too...

wp_rathead

Quint2010 wrote: »

You know Kidney has been a tad unlucky. In the 2011 Six Nations Ireland were pretty much robbed of a Grand Slam and at the World Cup we went thru our group unbeaten only for him to mess up in a very winnable game against Wales. He has brought through Healy, Ross, SOB, Earls and Sexton. He won us a Grand Slam and he has come the closest of any Irish coach in the last 30 years to beating New Zealand. His big problem is that he hasnt been able to translate Leinster's form onto the international stage and unfortunately the graph has been on a downward curve since the World Cup. He has done some good things but it's time for a change. The sooner the better.

We lost to France and Wales
And scraped wins against Italy and Scotland
We were awful in that 6 Nations