Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Tox56

GerM wrote: »

A scrum half plays a vital covering role in defence that's very noticeable if they're good at it. For example, TOL was absolutely fantastic at it. Reddan hindering North in the in goal area at the weekend was a good example.

If Luke McGrath can sort his passing out he could be a hell of a player, even though he's not the biggest he performs that defensive role extremely well. You're right in that it really stands out if they're good at it, in that England U20 Six Nations game he made several outstanding tackles.

irishbucsfan

él statutorio wrote: »

I know the younger OH's have been playing well but can you honestly say that in a match against South Africa if we were playing well and in with a shot of winning the game and Sexton went off injured you'd rather have one of the young lads coming on instead of ROG?

Keep in mind the ranking points on offer too...


Against the Pumas and the Saffers, be conservative and get the ranking points in the bag.

Experiment against Fiji.

Ranking points are irrelevant at this stage. We aren't going to drop to 3rd seed at this stage.

.ak

él statutorio wrote: »

Keep in mind the ranking points on offer too...

If we lose against SA we won't lose any points though do we? In my opinion it's that conservative attitude that's killed us over the last 4 years when other teams around the world and trying out new players in positions. No one's asking for an entire team sheet change, but a couple of players who've been impressing at club level should be atleast given a shot.

flyingoutside

.ak wrote: »

If someone is part of a team because he spent years living here, working with our rugby system, playing for our provinces, and registers as an Irish citizen, I can't see any moral problem with it.

I'll accept some people will always have an issue, but for me it seems a little purist... The world has become multinational and to exclude someone because of where they were born doesn't seem right to me.

Ah now relax, I'm not excluding the lad for being born anywhere. The simple fact is the lad is South African and looking to play for Ireland. And that's not the purist in me, that's how it is.

Hagz

GerM wrote: »

A scrum half plays a vital covering role in defence that's very noticeable if they're good at it. For example, TOL was absolutely fantastic at it. Reddan hindering North in the in goal area at the weekend was a good example.

It's more like when they have to intervene in defence it's usually a vital tackle, but in general a 9 will rarely have much to do in defence if everyone else is doing their job. Just sweep behind the defensive line. If I might add also, I think it's assumed Murray is the stronger defensively based on his size. Now, I probably do think Murray is the more physical, but not by enough to affect selection. I remember Cooney made a tremendous cover tackle at the start of the year and remember Stringer's infamous tap tackles so size doesn't automatically mean better defence, but like I said, a scrum-halves defence should not be what he is selected for anyway.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

If someone is part of a team because he spent years living here, working with our rugby system, playing for our provinces, and registers as an Irish citizen, I can't see any moral problem with it.

I'll accept some people will always have an issue, but for me it seems a little purist... The world has become multinational and to exclude someone because of where they were born doesn't seem right to me.

I wouldn't have a problem with anyone playing for Ireland as long as they became an Irish citizen, which takes 5 years. If you marry an Irish person, you can get it after 3 years I think.

Big test though for him to have to line up against his own country. If he manages that, I'd be happy enough.

twinytwo

él statutorio wrote: »

I know the younger OH's have been playing well but can you honestly say that in a match against South Africa if we were playing well and in with a shot of winning the game and Sexton went off injured you'd rather have one of the young lads coming on instead of ROG?

Keep in mind the ranking points on offer too...


Against the Pumas and the Saffers, be conservative and get the ranking points in the bag.

Experiment against Fiji.

We have to play without him some time.... the young fellas have to learn, the longer we leave it the worse off the irish team will be. Rankings points are always on offer/... we cant use it as an excuse for not playing new players or we will never get anywhere.... there is nearly always something at stake for the internationals.

él statutorio

molloyjh wrote: »

I was considering the possibility before, but I'm convinced now....prefers physical scrum half, uses crutch of ranking points to select experience over form....

Hi Deccie!

Busted!

Seriously though, i think DK gets a lot of unfair criticism. Yes he's conservative but IMHO he's doing what he was contracted to do, namely get to a world cup 1/4 final, win a GS and keep us in the top 8. The IRFU needs to start writing better contracts methinks.

él statutorio

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ranking points are irrelevant at this stage. We aren't going to drop to 3rd seed at this stage.

Really?

I thought that a loss to the Pumas could see us drop, open to correction on that though.

leftleg

él statutorio wrote: »

Busted!

Seriously though, i think DK gets a lot of unfair criticism.

60-0

él statutorio

.ak wrote: »

If we lose against SA we won't lose any points though do we? In my opinion it's that conservative attitude that's killed us over the last 4 years when other teams around the world and trying out new players in positions. No one's asking for an entire team sheet change, but a couple of players who've been impressing at club level should be atleast given a shot.

But if we win against them we shoot up the rankings.....

I can see you point alright but I think that summer tours (like NZ) and matches like Fiji should be used for experimenting. Of course the fact that the IRFU made a mess of the summer tour through penny pinching and refusing to play club sides ruled out any experimentation.

.ak

él statutorio wrote: »

Busted!

Seriously though, i think DK gets a lot of unfair criticism. Yes he's conservative but IMHO he's doing what he was contracted to do, namely get to a world cup 1/4 final, win a GS and keep us in the top 8. The IRFU needs to start writing better contracts methinks.

If that's our national goal set out by the IRFU then we're in trouble. In most cases we've had no problem getting to QF stages, nor staying in the top 8. That would be underachieving.

We should be aiming for SF spots in RWC, win more TCs and more championships, and we should be aiming for top 6 spots.

totallegend

él statutorio wrote: »

Really?

I thought that a loss to the Pumas could see us drop, open to correction on that though.

No, even losing both games, we would still require Scotland to beat either SA or NZ (as I understand it).

And to be honest, if we lose to both South Africa and Argentina, while the Scots can turn over SA or NZ, do Ireland really deserve to be in the second seeds ahead of the Scots?

Tox56

él statutorio wrote: »

Busted!

Seriously though, i think DK gets a lot of unfair criticism. Yes he's conservative but IMHO he's doing what he was contracted to do, namely get to a world cup 1/4 final, win a GS and keep us in the top 8. The IRFU needs to start writing better contracts methinks.

Perhaps the IRFU should start writing better contracts, but I don't see what difference it would make. Deccie hardly got to the RWC 1/4 final and then didn't bother his arse because that's all he was contracted to do..!

él statutorio

leftleg wrote: »

60-0

I didn't say all the criticism was unfair!

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

We should be aiming for SF spots in RWC,

We are. Pretty sure a RWC SF was one of the stated goals of the IRFU.

él statutorio wrote: »

I know the younger OH's have been playing well but can you honestly say that in a match against South Africa if we were playing well and in with a shot of winning the game and Sexton went off injured you'd rather have one of the young lads coming on instead of ROG?

Yes, especially if it was early in the game. ROG's experience has been of absolutely no use to him so far this season. He has been poor in all the games he has played for Munster, I see no reason to think he would suddenly be better playing at a higher level. And if you're worried about Reddan sweeping against big SA flankers then you must be positively terrified of ROG being anywhere on the pitch.

twinytwo

.ak wrote: »

If that's our national goal set out by the IRFU then we're in trouble. In most cases we've had no problem getting to QF stages, nor staying in the top 8. That would be underachieving.

We should be aiming for SF spots in RWC, win more TCs and more championships, and we should be aiming for top 6 spots.

Personally i think that if we played the correct team, and played to our strengths should be consistantly aiming for top 3/4 seeds. Even though we hardly ever show it we are better than wales, england,scotland, italy, south africa and australia... if we could get over whatever the feck is in our heads when it comes to playing the abs and going to stupid paris we would be flying.

él statutorio

.ak wrote: »

If that's our national goal set out by the IRFU then we're in trouble. In most cases we've had no problem getting to QF stages, nor staying in the top 8. That would be underachieving.

We should be aiming for SF spots in RWC, win more TCs and more championships, and we should be aiming for top 6 spots.

Absolutely! I 100% agree with this. The goals need to be specific, I know Scotland got a lot of stick about their recent thing about aiming to win a WC but in all honesty we should be doing the same. Aim for the stars and all that.

I think the main problem lies with whoever in the IRFU makes the appointments. I've heard bit and bobs about coaches (going back as far as Gatty) having to explain selections to blazers in the IRFU. I know they're just rumours but I've enough of them over the years that there has to be some element of truth to them. Between that and the total penny pinching that went on on the NZ tour there's something not right in there.

totallegend

Podge_irl wrote: »

We are. Pretty sure a RWC SF was one of the stated goals of the IRFU.

Yep, the Strategic Plan for 2008-12 is here:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/images/content/theirfu/Strategic_Plan_08.pdf

Stated aims:
Win a 6 Nations - check.
Reach the semi-final of RWC 2011 - erm...
An Irish province to win the HC - check, three times over.
An Irish province to reach the semifinal of the HC each year - check (three of the four years have seen two Irish semi-finalists)
Irish provinces to win 2 Magners Leagues - check

So basically the provinces have more than delivered on their side of the deal on a consistent basis; the national side won the 6 Nations in the first year of the operation of the plan and have been on a downward curve ever since.

2009 - 5 from 5
2010 - 3 from 5
2011 - 3 from 5
2012 - 2.5 from 5

él statutorio

Podge_irl wrote: »

We are. Pretty sure a RWC SF was one of the stated goals of the IRFU.



Yes, especially if it was early in the game. ROG's experience has been of absolutely no use to him so far this season. He has been poor in all the games he has played for Munster, I see no reason to think he would suddenly be better playing at a higher level. And if you're worried about Reddan sweeping against big SA flankers then you must be positively terrified of ROG being anywhere on the pitch.

Since Wallace retired, yes I am. Wally was very very good at taking a lot of the heat off ROG when it came to opposition flankers.

Why the IRFU doesn't instigate some sort of Wallace breeding program for creating future players is beyond me.

irishbucsfan

él statutorio wrote: »

Busted!

Seriously though, i think DK gets a lot of unfair criticism. Yes he's conservative but IMHO he's doing what he was contracted to do, namely get to a world cup 1/4 final, win a GS and keep us in the top 8. The IRFU needs to start writing better contracts methinks.

Actually during Kidney's current contract all he's really done is beat Australia. He's also lost to Wales twice, lost to England and been beaten 60-0 on a winless tour.

In the World Cup the IRFU were aiming for a semi-final, which we failed to achieve. In the 6 Nations we only managed to beat Scotland and Italy. The first time we've won only 2 games since the season that got Eddie O'Sullivan the sack.

When his backs coach left he reorganised in a way which has caused confusion in the camp and even his own captain questioned the setup (something that now seems to have changed thankfully).

He's been a long way short of what's expected of him really.

twinytwo

él statutorio wrote: »

Since Wallace retired, yes I am. Wally was very very good at taking a lot of the heat off ROG when it came to opposition flankers.

Why the IRFU doesn't instigate some sort of Wallace breeding program for creating future players is beyond me.

On that note... am i the only one praying that Bod's baby is going to be a boy

ray jay

totallegend wrote: »

No, even losing both games, we would still require Scotland to beat either SA or NZ (as I understand it).

Actually because of home advantage, losing to both SA and Argentina means Scotland would only have to beat Tonga to move ahead of us, leaving us in 9th position. I don't think it will happen, but the possibility exists.

Quint2010

ROG's selection is fine as long as, if with fifteen minutes to go he comes on and has a stinker, that there are no excuses about him not having played much rugby this season...

Sinbad_NI

él statutorio wrote: »

I know the younger OH's have been playing well but can you honestly say that in a match against South Africa if we were playing well and in with a shot of winning the game and Sexton went off injured you'd rather have one of the young lads coming on instead of ROG?

Keep in mind the ranking points on offer too...


Against the Pumas and the Saffers, be conservative and get the ranking points in the bag.

Experiment against Fiji.

10000% yes yes yes.

Team should have much more weighing towards form rather than experience.
New blood = new ideas and new options.

Deano7788

Just on Strauss, I have no problem with a player coming over here to work for a few years and as a side effect he becomes elligible for Ireland through residency. What I do have a problem with is the project player policy where the IRFU actively recruit foreign players that can be eligible in 3 years in order to strengthen the national team.

Quint2010

ray jay wrote: »

Actually because of home advantage, losing to both SA and Argentina means Scotland would only have to beat Tonga to move ahead of us, leaving us in 9th position. I don't think it will happen, but the possibility exists.

That scenario is never going to happen. Scotland simply ain't good enough to beat Tonga..

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

We are. Pretty sure a RWC SF was one of the stated goals of the IRFU.

Yes, especially if it was early in the game. ROG's experience has been of absolutely no use to him so far this season. He has been poor in all the games he has played for Munster, I see no reason to think he would suddenly be better playing at a higher level. And if you're worried about Reddan sweeping against big SA flankers then you must be positively terrified of ROG being anywhere on the pitch.

The difference was then that Girvan Dempsey would have been a much better defender than any of our most recent fullbacks.

I thought ROG did well against Racing until he got injured. He did make a mistake that lead to a try, but that was very early in the game and if he had stayed on the pitch, Munster would probably have won.

leonard7

there is a way to use both reddan and murray...so i cannot be angered at their inclusion at all even though im a Marshall fan it all depends how kidney decides to play them.. the team although missing a few names (which i never expected to see) is in that group of players to beat South Africa and Argentina so squad selection has become a bit of a non-issue under Kidney. Just have to wait to the AIs to see if anything has changed in the way the game is played not who plays because for the foreseeable future that will not change.

Fishooks12

Quint2010 wrote: »

That scenario is never going to happen. Scotland simply ain't good enough to beat Tonga..

You think? Tonga are pretty piss poor