Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Foxtrol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah but that was a while ago now. McGahan was the last person in charge of it.

Ireland's defense was excellent under Kiss. But he's needed in attack now.

As I said it could work out. I dont have any massive issues with it but I was just pointing out the irony of Fireball07 saying that he got it due to the good job he had been doing with Munster while at the same time a discussion of Munster bias was going on.

jm08

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Exactly! Thanks jm08, you've just underlined the point that scoring tries is just a part of the makeup of an international winger. Just what I was trying to say, thanks for the great example.

You need balance - and at least one try scorer on the wings (preferably 2).
With no Bowe & Earls available, Zebo was the right option. When Earls was moved back to the wing, Zebo was dropped.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Kiss isn't needed in attack. An attack coach is needed in attack.

And why can't that be Kiss? It's not like he has no prior experience with that side of things.

Utopia Parkway

jm08 wrote: »

Most the top teams (Ospreys, Leinster, Musnter) in the Rabo rotate their best players when playing Connacht, whereas they will have full strength teams when playing each other.

Ulster nilled Connacht in Ravehill, whereas they scraped a win against Munster.

Sure by that logic Connacht hammered Leinster who in turn beat Munster fairly handily.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And why can't that be Kiss? It's not like he has no prior experience with that side of things.

Fair point. I don't think Ireland's attack has been great of late but he's been double jobbing so that would have had an impact.

The whole coaching thing is a mess though. The defence coach is now attack coach, the scrum coach that stepped down is being brought back in. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

So why shouldn't Carr have been selected ahead of Dowling then?

Can you not see the inconsistency in DK's selection? Everytime you argue for Zebo you're making points for why Carr should have been picked ahead of Dowling and visa versa

Because he was getting a chance to impress at the Churchill Cup. From what I remember it was players were selected for either Canada/US or Churchill Cup.

It looks though now as if Kidney's assessment of Carr was right.

maddness

Podge_irl wrote: »

Fair point. I don't think Ireland's attack has been great of late but he's been double jobbing so that would have had an impact.

The whole coaching thing is a mess though. The defence coach is now attack coach, the scrum coach that stepped down is being brought back in. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Very true.

Scioch

Seen a post on the journal saying we'd have to lose both games and Scotland beat SA and Aus to overtake us. Is that right ?

Are the rankings an actual issue in these games ?

jm08

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Sure by that logic Connacht hammered Leinster who in turn beat Munster fairly handily.

Leinster had Fionn Carr on the wing!

The Leinster starting pack against Connacht were:
Van der Merwe, Sexton, Hagan
Denton, Roux
Ben Marshall, Jennings, Auba'a

Jennings was the only first team player. Sexton is 3rd choice hooker.

Very different team to what played Munster.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Because he was getting a chance to impress at the Churchill Cup. From what I remember it was players were selected for either Canada/US or Churchill Cup.

It looks though now as if Kidney's assessment of Carr was right.

And his assessment of most of the Munster players from the list a few pages earlier were either wrong or at best yet to be determined. A broken clock is right twice a day and Zebo is probably an example of this.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

Fair point. I don't think Ireland's attack has been great of late but he's been double jobbing so that would have had an impact.

The whole coaching thing is a mess though. The defence coach is now attack coach, the scrum coach that stepped down is being brought back in. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I don't think Les Kiss was always just a defence coach. Wayne Smith used be the backs coach for the All Blacks - he is now the Defence Coach for the Chiefs. Apparently there isn't too much difference between the jobs. Up to recently Joe Schmidt was doing them both for Leinster (Feek has now taken over the defence role).

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

And his assessment of most of the Munster players from the list a few pages earlier were either wrong or at best yet to be determined. A broken clock is right twice a day and Zebo is probably an example of this.

Could you supply a link to the list - I don't know what you are referring to.

Zebo has kicked on from where he was and is first choice at his club. Neither Carr or Gilroy are first choice for their club yet - maybe they will - a broken clock is right twice a day and Carr & Gilroy could probably be an example of this!

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Munster were missing a lot of their first choice players as it being the first game of the season for some.

Connacht were nilled.

So the big teams don't play full strength teams when they play eachother

AngeGal

its_phil wrote: »

Wow that's pathetic.

I seriously hope some Connacht fans aren't turning into province over country people. Ireland is always priority #1 IMO

I'm fairly certain Connacht fans in general are the least likely of any province to have their priorities wrong on this. Although given the shambolic treatment Connacht regularly receives from the IRFU, it would make more sense for them to do so than any other province.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Scioch wrote: »

Seen a post on the journal saying we'd have to lose both games and Scotland beat SA or NZ to overtake us. Is that right ?

Are the rankings an actual issue in these games ?

Fixed

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

So the big teams don't play full strength teams when they play eachother

Munster & Leinster always put out the best team available against each other. Ulster, up to now, have only done it in Ravenhill and have generally sent weakened teams to Munster & Leinster. That will probably change from now on as they have a much better squad.

irishbucsfan

Ulster generally send weakened teams to Leinster? That's not true. The traditional Boxing Day match was always well contested. It's only last Christmas they sent the Ravens up.

dtpc191991

Zebo is a reasonable choice imo. He's been great this season. I'm happy with the squad minus one thing. Why is ROG still in it when it would be clear to an amoeba with a mental health illness that Jackson is miles ahead in quality, playing well and starting top level club games.

Look at this:
"We have three incredibly competitive games ahead of us in November and while there have been quite a few injuries and niggles in the early part of the season, it has opened up opportunities for other players to step into the squad".

Is that a confession that injury is the only way into the squad. =O

totallegend

jm08 wrote: »

Could you supply a link to the list - I don't know what you are referring to.

Zebo has kicked on from where he was and is first choice at his club. Neither Carr or Gilroy are first choice for their club yet - maybe they will - a broken clock is right twice a day and Carr & Gilroy could probably be an example of this!

I hate this "player x isn't first choice at province A but player y is first choice at province B, therefore player y must be better" argument. Gilroy is behind Bowe and Trimble; who is Zebo competing with? Danny Barnes? Well fair play for nailing down that jersey Simon.

Gilroy was first choice last season, so does that mean you accept that he should have gone to NZ ahead of Zebo?

Ps not having a go at Zebo, who is playing very well this season, just pointing out the flaws in jm's "logic"

Fishooks12

totallegend wrote: »

I hate this "player x isn't first choice at province A but player y is first choice at province B, therefore player y must be better" argument. Gilroy is behind Bowe and Trimble; who is Zebo competing with? Danny Barnes? Well fair play for nailing down that jersey Simon.

Gilroy was first choice last season, so does that mean you accept that he should have gone to NZ ahead of Zebo?

Ps not having a go at Zebo, who is playing very well this season, just pointing out the flaws in jm's "logic"

Infairness Zebo is the form winger at the moment in Ireland. Would easily start for Ulster right now.

dtpc191991

Actually what has me even more worried is the lack of TH cover in the squad. Only Ross? Is Kidney seriously so stupid that he hasn't learnt from what happened in England last year. =O

Fishooks12

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Actually what has me even more worried is the lack of TH cover in the squad. Only Ross? Is Kidney seriously so stupid that he hasn't learnt from what happened in England last year. =O

There's a TH being added after this weekends games

dtpc191991

Fishooks12 wrote: »

There's a TH being added after this weekends games

Cool. That's a relief I was getting worried there.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ulster generally send weakened teams to Leinster? That's not true. The traditional Boxing Day match was always well contested. It's only last Christmas they sent the Ravens up.

I seem to remember Niall O'Connor starting at outhalf fairly recently in the RDS and I don't ever remember seeing Ferris play against Leinster outside of Ravenhill.

Some very young and inexperienced teams sent down to Munster.

jm08

totallegend wrote: »

I hate this "player x isn't first choice at province A but player y is first choice at province B, therefore player y must be better" argument. Gilroy is behind Bowe and Trimble; who is Zebo competing with? Danny Barnes? Well fair play for nailing down that jersey Simon.

Gilroy was first choice last season, so does that mean you accept that he should have gone to NZ ahead of Zebo?

Ps not having a go at Zebo, who is playing very well this season, just pointing out the flaws in jm's "logic"

It all depends at who is ahead of who. Being behind Bowe, you could understand, but Trimble is a limited enough player. I suspect that Trimble's experience won out for the trip to NZ. Zebo was starting for Munster (& is still starting for Munster with a new coach there) and was scoring tries.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

It all depends at who is ahead of who. Being behind Bowe, you could understand, but Trimble is a limited enough player. I suspect that Trimble's experience won out for the trip to NZ. Zebo was starting for Munster (& is still starting for Munster with a new coach there) and was scoring tries.

who has kept Fitzgerald, Earls and recently Zebo and Gilroy out of the Irish side in recent years

What goes on in there jm!?

Hagz

I'd have Gilroy ahead of Trimble in the Ulster squad tbh. No disrespect to Trimble, i just prefer Gilroy. And if I had a fully fit Earls and Fitzgerald, I'd have either of them ahead of him for Ireland. And to put the icing on the cake, in the form Zebo's in, I'd rather see him in the 11 shirt than Trimble. Again, that's not a snipe at Trimble, just my opinion.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Deleted User wrote: »

who has kept Fitzgerald, Earls and recently Zebo and Gilroy out of the Irish side in recent years

What goes on in there jm!?

Do you not agree that Trimble is a limited player? He is a very strong runner and defender, but he has no more strings to his bow. He doesn't have any kicking or aerial game and I wouldn't put him down as a great reader of the game either.

irishbucsfan

Gilroy has his issues. I think he'll end up a starter for Ulster but Trimble's defense is probably keeping him in there now.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

who has kept Fitzgerald, Earls and recently Zebo and Gilroy out of the Irish side in recent years

What goes on in there jm!?

Trimble never kept either Fitzgerald or Earls out of the team in recent years. Remember Fitz made the Lions in 2009 and Earls took over from him when he got injured.

Zebo & Gilroy have just started their careers, so Trimble could not have kept them out for years.