Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

AngeGal

its_phil wrote: »

I'm sorry but does your second point not rule out your first?

Please don't start on IRFU vs Connacht stuff either let it stay far far away.

No it doesn't, I'm saying despite that treatment, Connacht fans would generally still agree Ireland is the number one priority. Not sure how you could consider those points contradictory.

fitz

totallegend wrote: »

But at what stage does the national team setup have to take some responsibilty for sorting themselves out? It's now 7 months.since Twickenham and still no scrum coach.

Would you want to work with Kidney?

Quint2010

So....Bowe at FB for Ulster tomorrow..

thomond2006

I can't stand how the Ireland management can control team selections by provinces.

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

There's getting help and then there's plundering resources because of bad management. Ireland should have their own scrum coach.

At the end of the day, Leinster would be absolutely nowhere near where they are now without the IRFU.

Complaining that 1 coach is going to be voluntarily missing for a few weeks is crazy.

gally74

Firstly people have two options for the a I,

1 win at all cost play the best available team

2 use games to develope younger players.

I'm with 2 and that's why I wanted the younger players to come through and rest the older ones,

What will we learn about rog and doc, darcy etc for next feb!!!! Absolutely nothing

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

At the end of the day, Leinster would be absolutely nowhere near where they are now without the IRFU.

Complaining that 1 coach is going to be voluntarily missing for a few weeks is crazy.

Two separate issues but anyway.

Feek, to my knowledge, wants to concentrate on Leinster, so I'm not sure how voluntary it is. Certainly if he wanted the national job full time he'd have it by now.

The national team should have a dedicated scrum coach. That it has taken so long to get one is not a good reflection on IRFU.

irishbucsfan

totallegend wrote: »

Two separate issues but anyway.

Feek, to my knowledge, wants to concentrate on Leinster, so I'm not sure how voluntary it is. Certainly if he wanted the national job full time he'd have it by now.

The national team should have a dedicated scrum coach. That it has taken so long to get one is not a good reflection on IRFU.

Not seperate issues at all. Leinster would be in no position to approach Hurricanes coaches like Feek if they weren't supported so well by the IRFU.

The least we can do is not moan when they're looking for some temporary staff.

It's not like the IRFU weren't trying. They had Cuttita on the hook but he got away.

Donald Coyle

.ak wrote: »

There's getting help and then there's plundering resources because of bad management. Ireland should have their own scrum coach.

Maybe it's better that they borrow someone who knows what they're doing. Based on the recent appointments (e.g. very successful defence coach becoming full-time attack coach after unsuccessfully double-jobbing) who would they have brought in for scrums... Alan Gaffney anyone?

jacothelad

totallegend wrote: »

But at what stage does the national team setup have to take some responsibilty for sorting themselves out? It's now 7 months.since Twickenham and still no scrum coach.

A scrum coach wouldn't have changed that. Playing a loose head at tight head and then watching as Corbisiero threw the law book out the window with the help of Nigel was what the problem was. There was no reason on Earth why Kidney couldn't have had two props on the bench. Most of the guys he has as subs never get on anyway or maybe get 3 or 4 minutes - except ROG of course.

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

There was no reason on Earth why Kidney couldn't have had two props on the bench. Most of the guys he has as subs never get on anyway or maybe get 3 or 4 minutes - except ROG of course.

Precisely. This has been done, particularly by French teams, for years. They have a 5/2 split and, around the 50th minute, change the entire front row and tear the tiring opposition scrum apart. It does help when the country isn't completely against the idea of developing versatility in their backs though and one player covers 9 and 10.

phog

.ak wrote: »

The Feek thing is really annoying from a Leinster POV. Sometimes I wish the provinces would go private, and stop being plundered needlessly.

Eh no, Leinster can take a hike if they so wish but I don't want Munster doing it.

How much do you think it would cost to run Leinster as a seperate entity, do you think they would have sufficient funds/cashflow to continue as they are now? I thnk you'd see a slimmed down organisation if they went solo.

stefan idiot jones

fitz wrote: »

Would you want to work with Kidney?

Sorry to intrude, but as a Welshman I am delighted that you still have Declan Kidney as your coach. You really deserve better, a Munster Dinosaur.

jm08

GerM wrote: »

Precisely. This has been done, particularly by French teams, for years. They have a 5/2 split and, around the 50th minute, change the entire front row and tear the tiring opposition scrum apart. It does help when the country isn't completely against the idea of developing versatility in their backs though and one player covers 9 and 10.

Or if we had a few more players like Keith Earls who can cover centre, wing & fullback. Even our wing options would be iffy at fullback.

Taco Corp

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1026/1224325731750.html

Interesting piece from Thornley suggesting Bent could be brought straight into the Irish squad. Seems to depend on how Fitzpatrick gets on against the Dragons. Hard to believe that he'd get called up straight away having only had one opportunity for game for Leinster.

irishbucsfan

Surely it'd be absolutely mad to put him right in the squad?

Feek must rate him highly, which is great to hear. I like to hear this bit:

Bent, who has listed Ireland and Spain as his favourite holiday destinations, was limited to a replacement’s role in all of his six Super 15 appearances for the Hurricanes this season, though subsequently he has been touted as a contender for Player of the Year at Taranaki.

Their coach Colin Cooper said: “He is an outstanding player and I think he had a great year for us. He has improved his game, both defensively and on attack, because his scrummaging was always good.”

Cpt_Blackbeard

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1026/1224325731750.html

Interesting piece from Thornley suggesting Bent could be brought straight into the Irish squad. Seems to depend on how Fitzpatrick gets on against the Dragons. Hard to believe that he'd get called up straight away having only had one opportunity for game for Leinster.

Is Bent coming over with a solid reputation? Anything I've seen has him coming over less well known than Borlase.

Tox56

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1026/1224325731750.html

Interesting piece from Thornley suggesting Bent could be brought straight into the Irish squad. Seems to depend on how Fitzpatrick gets on against the Dragons. Hard to believe that he'd get called up straight away having only had one opportunity for game for Leinster.

He would rather bring in Archer or Tony Buckley than Jamie Hagan??

Kidney also referenced Loughney, Archer, Tony Buckley at Sale and John Andress at Worcester as contenders, but Fitzpatrick and Bent look the likelier front-runners at this juncture.

Not a great sign for Jamie unless he's injured or something

jm08

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Is Bent coming over with a solid reputation? Anything I've seen has him coming over less well known than Borlase.

You can check him out here in the ITM cup semi between Taraniki & Canterbury last weekend. Up against Crockett for Canterbury.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ZO65kER44
There are scrums at around 13 mins, 16 and 18.30 mins. He is a big lump, but he does well.

Lots of similarities in the way Canterbury play and the way Munster are attempting to.

jacothelad

Tox56 wrote: »

He would rather bring in Archer or Tony Buckley than Jamie Hagan??



Not a great sign for Jamie unless he's injured or something

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/declan-kidney-calls-the-shots-in-provinces-3272862.html

"Like Anscombe, Penney has rested a big-name prop in BJ Botha to give Stephen Archer a chance for some game time as Kidney looks to keep his options below Ross open. Corkman Archer was mentioned by the Ireland boss among the possible options to cover Ross if necessary over the next month." The man is absolutely beyond the pale.

Winters

.ak wrote: »

Sometimes I wish the provinces would go private, and stop being plundered needlessly.

Really? That is a very shortsighted wish in my view and would spell the death for the province.

Without a huge TV deal like in France it would be completely unsustainable. We only need Edinburgh and all four Wales provinces to prove that.

It may not be as enjoyable at the moment but Ireland comes first in my book, always.

ed7890

Tox56 wrote: »

He would rather bring in Archer or Tony Buckley than Jamie Hagan??

I'd rate Archer and Hagan about the same. Both can be acceptable against lower level Pro12 teams, but get turned inside out against a good scrum. Neither are close to being ready to play for Ireland.

ray jay

If the provinces went private, they would still receive money from the IRFU just like the English and Welsh clubs do.

totallegend

I doubt that .ak was being fully serious about wanting Leinster to break away from IRFU, so let's all dismount...

But this notion that the IRFU "supports" the provinces is questionable anyway. Yes, the provinces can pay their big names more than would otherwise be the case, but then the IRFU have a free hand in deciding who plays and when and now is meddling in team selection for the benefit of the national team.

The IRFU get a hell of a lot in return for the money they give to the provinces.

Winters

ray jay wrote: »

If the provinces went private, they would still receive money from the IRFU just like the English and Welsh clubs do.

How much? For what? For which players? How often is it negotiated? Are their stipulations attached? What do the private newcomers gets for their investment? Who owns the players? If the province squanders the money what happens? I'm not looking for answers to these questions but I’m just delighted that in Ireland we don’t have to worry about such when the it’s all the Wales regions talk about these days. They are in direct competition with the WRU for bums on seats, TV deals, jersey sales etc.

For all its flaws I think Ireland and Scotland have a much more integrated and better system given the size of our countries and I don’t want it to change.

irishbucsfan

totallegend wrote: »

But this notion that the IRFU "supports" the provinces is questionable anyway.

It's not even remotely questionable.

Tox56

ed7890 wrote: »

I'd rate Archer and Hagan about the same. Both can be acceptable against lower level Pro12 teams, but get turned inside out against a good scrum. Neither are close to being ready to play for Ireland.

Hagan at least was starting and playing pretty well for Connacht for a good run of games, Archer hasn't even had that.

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's not even remotely questionable.

Ok, we know exactly where you stand on the province/country issue; did you read the rest of my post?

Winters

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's not even remotely questionable.

Agree. It's not even an issue. The IRFU IS the provinces. Every player is an IRFU employee. Accounts and players may be aligned to different departments/branches but it's all one company. The same pot.

irishbucsfan

totallegend wrote: »

Ok, we know exactly where you stand on the province/country issue; did you read the rest of my post?

Yes but it doesn't change the facts. Our provinces are managed superbly by IRFU employees and are run on money they would never have been able to generate without the support of the IRFU in the first place.

Leinster benefit from that money as well as central contracts. Without central contract these players would follow the money abroad just like the Scottish, Welsh and English. Not to mention the lobbying for the tax rebates.

The player management schemes benefit Leinster as much as Ireland. And while the Irish coaches do get to ask for players to be played in certain situations, the same thing happens in other countries. It's not only because the IRFU have influence, it's also because the players themselves want to play for their country in any way possible and their coaches appreciate that. If Munster were private, and POM had a chance to start for Ireland at 7, I'm sure Penney would facilitate him. It's not some big brother conspiracy that is holding the provinces back.

The way rugby is set up in this country is the difference between our 5 Heineken cups in 7 years and the Welsh teams inability to even keep Welsh players at private Welsh clubs.

Connacht wouldn't exist as a professional outfit without the IRFU. Ulster wouldn't have been able to bring in the players who make them as good as they are. Munster wouldn't have the new Thomond Park. Leinster wouldn't have been able to keep up with Munster in the early parts of the last decade when half the province adopted Munster as their favourite team. So no, it's not remotely questionable that the IRFU support the provinces.