Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

ed7890

Tox56 wrote: »

Hagan at least was starting and playing pretty well for Connacht for a good run of games, Archer hasn't even had that.

If anything you would think Hagan should be better off given 2 years of gametime in Connacht. He got 50 games over 2 years, and yet still coughed up a penalty try to Marcus Horan last year. Archer has only played 34 senior games his whole career (14 starts). Not that I think Archer will make it given more gametime.

Quint2010

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1026/1224325731750.html

Interesting piece from Thornley suggesting Bent could be brought straight into the Irish squad. Seems to depend on how Fitzpatrick gets on against the Dragons. Hard to believe that he'd get called up straight away having only had one opportunity for game for Leinster.

Given that that's Thornley I would say Bent is a shoo-in for the 6N..

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes but it doesn't change the facts. Our provinces are managed superbly by IRFU employees and are run on money they would never have been able to generate without the support of the IRFU in the first place.

Leinster benefit from that money as well as central contracts. Without central contract these players would follow the money abroad just like the Scottish, Welsh and English. Not to mention the lobbying for the tax rebates.

The player management schemes benefit Leinster as much as Ireland. And while the Irish coaches do get to ask for players to be played in certain situations, the same thing happens in other countries. It's not only because the IRFU have influence, it's also because the players themselves want to play for their country in any way possible and their coaches appreciate that. If Munster were private, and POM had a chance to start for Ireland at 7, I'm sure Penney would facilitate him. It's not some big brother conspiracy that is holding the provinces back.

The way rugby is set up in this country is the difference between our 5 Heineken cups in 7 years and the Welsh teams inability to even keep Welsh players at private Welsh clubs.

Connacht wouldn't exist as a professional outfit without the IRFU. Ulster wouldn't have been able to bring in the players who make them as good as they are. Munster wouldn't have the new Thomond Park. Leinster wouldn't have been able to keep up with Munster in the early parts of the last decade when half the province adopted Munster as their favourite team. So no, it's not remotely questionable that the IRFU support the provinces.

I don't dispute any of that and I'm not advocating any changes to the current set up; it's worked brilliantly for all four provinces (because as you say, Connacht is not remotely viable on a stand-alone basis).

What I am disputing is the notion is that it's a one-way street with the IRFU propping up the provinces; yes, the backing of the IRFU central branch is a massive help for the provinces but it's a mutually beneficial arrangement, whether it's the national team having all their players at their beck and call at all times or Leinster helping to pay down the mortgage by filling the Aviva three or four times a year.

The provinces would be nowhere near as successful without the central office, but it works vice versa too.

What sparked all this off was the issue of Feek being called in as a sticking plaster again for the national side; I've no objection to that per se but what galls me is the poor organisation of the national coaching ticket on a pretty consistent basis. It's just a symptom of the wider issue that the provinces have been delivering in spades on their end of the bargain and the national team has failed to capitalise properly, that's what annoys me; that the national team is going backwards at a rate of knots when all the underlying structures are there to facilitate success.

Leinster will cope without Feek for a couple of weeks just like Munster will cope without Foley; the issue is that they wouldn't have to if the guys at the top of the pyramid were doing their jobs.

Edit; if the recent coaching appointments are only short-term because the current coaching ticket is getting the bullet at the end of the season, I withdraw all objections. I would gladly hand over Schmidt, Gibbes and whoever else if it meant the end of Kidney's tenure.

irishbucsfan

I don't disagree with that.

You said though that its questionable whether or not the IRFU support the provinces. I'm saying there's no question that they do!

jacothelad

Ireland don't really need a scrum coach per se if the guys at the Provinces are doing o.k.. They need a head coach who is capable of seeing that there is a difference between loose head and tight head and heaven help us all, that guys like Archer are not up to it. Let's call it like it is. If Archer played second fiddle at Connacht or Ulster (which let's face it, would never happen) would he be anywhere near the frame for Ireland selection? Not in a million years - so why is he in Kidney's field of view. Answers on a post card. He's a shockingly poor scrummager - way below the level required at the sharp end of pro rugby. What else he can do on the pitch is irrelevant.

jaco on a serious Archer hate session!

Did he knock down your cat? :pac:

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

jaco on a serious Archer hate session!

Did he knock down your cat? :pac:

Maybe he's NOC's agent and he negotiated NOC's move back to Ulster!

Sinbad_NI

thomond2006 wrote: »

Maybe he's NOC's agent and he negotiated NOC's move back to Ulster!

LOL, no one mam could be that cruel. All the planets must have been aligned.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

jaco on a serious Archer hate session!

Did he knock down your cat? :pac:

I don't hate Archer at all. In fact I wish him well and wish he had developed into a good t.h. Munster need a few good tight heads. I'm a supporter of all the provinces, not just Ulster because Ireland is also important to me. What I refuse to ignore is Kidney's stupidity in his regard.

I know we are short of competent t.h. props but we won't ever get anywhere if the head coach is in complete denial about a few players. As I said before, if Archer played for Connacht and turned in the poor scrum performances that he does, would he be anywhere near an Ireland squad? - No he feckin' would not. Archer is actually decent in open play and often shows up well enough there but has Kidney learnt nothing from watching this guy? Is he actually so besotted with the red shirt that he can't see the performance because of his love for all things Munster? The man is so steeped in Munster rugby that he turns first, second and third to it when in need. Sometimes he is right. Munster have great players. His blind eye to the ones who are now past it is woeful - and it's not just there either. There are other old faithfuls that should be out of the Irish squad. The guy seems paralysed with fear of the unknown. He won't bring in new players for fear of losing - unless of course they have the Munster seal of approval. He doesn't trust other players so he shoehorns good guys in to play out of position. You know the old saying about guys being promoted beyond there ability - well here it is in action.

Last 6 games against higher ranked teams. Won 0. Drawn 1. Lost 5. Tries for 6. Tries against 19...and he is looking at the same old boys to change it. My arse and parsley. Even if they squeak past a weak S.A. and an even weaker Puma side what will he have discovered? Sweet Feck All. It's not about Archer. I hope he does well tonight. It's about the fraud being perpetrated on Irish rugby.

molloyjh

jacothelad wrote: »

I don't hate Archer at all. In fact I wish him well and wish he had developed into a good t.h. Munster need a few good tight heads. I'm a supporter of all the provinces, not just Ulster because Ireland is also important to me. What I refuse to ignore is Kidney's stupidity in his regard.

I know we are short of competent t.h. props but we won't ever get anywhere if the head coach is in complete denial about a few players. As I said before, if Archer played for Connacht and turned in the poor scrum performances that he does, would he be anywhere near an Ireland squad? - No he feckin' would not. Archer is actually decent in open play and often shows up well enough there but has Kidney learnt nothing from watching this guy? Is he actually so besotted with the red shirt that he can't see the performance because of his love for all things Munster? The man is so steeped in Munster rugby that he turns first, second and third to it when in need. Sometimes he is right. Munster have great players. His blind eye to the ones who are now past it is woeful - and it's not just there either. There are other old faithfuls that should be out of the Irish squad. The guy seems paralysed with fear of the unknown. He won't bring in new players for fear of losing - unless of course they have the Munster seal of approval. He doesn't trust other players so he shoehorns good guys in to play out of position. You know the old saying about guys being promoted beyond there ability - well here it is in action.

Last 6 games against higher ranked teams. Won 0. Drawn 1. Lost 5. Tries for 6. Tries against 19...and he is looking at the same old boys to change it. My arse and parsley. Even if they squeak past a weak S.A. and an even weaker Puma side what will he have discovered? Sweet Feck All. It's not about Archer. I hope he does well tonight. It's about the fraud being perpetrated on Irish rugby.

Ah yeah, but how do you really feel?

jacothelad

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah yeah, but how do you really feel?

Look, it's Friday, the sun is shining on the sea as I look out across to Scotland, my wife has just brought me a cup of tea and a slice of delicious lemon drizzle cake. I'm about to dander over to the Whitecliff Inn for a few pre match pints so all in all, I'm in a pretty good mood and so I've been kind to our head coach. Don't think less of me for being soft hearted.

Lelantos

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/27563.php
Interesting!

Cpt_Blackbeard

jacothelad wrote: »

I don't hate Archer at all. In fact I wish him well and wish he had developed into a good t.h. Munster need a few good tight heads. I'm a supporter of all the provinces, not just Ulster because Ireland is also important to me. What I refuse to ignore is Kidney's stupidity in his regard.

I know we are short of competent t.h. props but we won't ever get anywhere if the head coach is in complete denial about a few players. As I said before, if Archer played for Connacht and turned in the poor scrum performances that he does, would he be anywhere near an Ireland squad? - No he feckin' would not. Archer is actually decent in open play and often shows up well enough there but has Kidney learnt nothing from watching this guy? Is he actually so besotted with the red shirt that he can't see the performance because of his love for all things Munster? The man is so steeped in Munster rugby that he turns first, second and third to it when in need. Sometimes he is right. Munster have great players. His blind eye to the ones who are now past it is woeful - and it's not just there either. There are other old faithfuls that should be out of the Irish squad. The guy seems paralysed with fear of the unknown. He won't bring in new players for fear of losing - unless of course they have the Munster seal of approval. He doesn't trust other players so he shoehorns good guys in to play out of position. You know the old saying about guys being promoted beyond there ability - well here it is in action.

Last 6 games against higher ranked teams. Won 0. Drawn 1. Lost 5. Tries for 6. Tries against 19...and he is looking at the same old boys to change it. My arse and parsley. Even if they squeak past a weak S.A. and an even weaker Puma side what will he have discovered? Sweet Feck All. It's not about Archer. I hope he does well tonight. It's about the fraud being perpetrated on Irish rugby.

Archer was selected for one Wolfhounds game where Axel Foley was the forwards coach. He has not been involved with any other Irish squads afaik. He is behind Fitzpatrick, Loughney and tying with Hagan for the backup Irish TH spot. Mountains out of non-existent molehills.

Winters

Lelantos wrote: »

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/27563.php
Interesting!

Wow, big news.

I wonder who will replace him at Leinster.

jacothelad

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Archer was selected for one Wolfhounds game where Axel Foley was the forwards coach. He has not been involved with any other Irish squads afaik. He is behind Fitzpatrick, Loughney and tying with Hagan for the backup Irish TH spot. Mountains out of non-existent molehills.

Sorry Captain... did you miss this bit. "It's not about Archer. I hope he does well tonight. It's about the fraud being perpetrated on Irish rugby."

molloyjh

jacothelad wrote: »

Look, it's Friday, the sun is shining on the sea as I look out across to Scotland, my wife has just brought me a cup of tea and a slice of delicious lemon drizzle cake. I'm about to dander over to the Whitecliff Inn for a few pre match pints so all in all, I'm in a pretty good mood and so I've been kind to our head coach. Don't think less of me for being soft hearted.

Enjoy the pints so. For the most part I agree with the sentiment. I'm just a bit bored of saying it at this stage it's been going on so long.

jm08

jacothelad wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/declan-kidney-calls-the-shots-in-provinces-3272862.html

"Like Anscombe, Penney has rested a big-name prop in BJ Botha to give Stephen Archer a chance for some game time as Kidney looks to keep his options below Ross open. Corkman Archer was mentioned by the Ireland boss among the possible options to cover Ross if necessary over the next month." The man is absolutely beyond the pale.

Just a bit of poetic licence by the Indo. The Irish Times has Archer as an also ran.

Kidney also referenced Loughney, Archer, Tony Buckley at Sale and John Andress at Worcester as contenders, but Fitzpatrick and Bent look the likelier front-runners at this juncture.

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

Just a bit of poetic licence by the Indo. The Irish Times has Archer as an also ran.

That Buckley is even mentioned is crazy, whatever about Archer.....

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

That Buckley is even mentioned is crazy, whatever about Archer.....

It was said at a press conference. Its diplomatic to mention everyone.

totallegend

molloyjh wrote: »

That Buckley is even mentioned is crazy, whatever about Archer.....

Archer at least has some degree of time on his side; Buckley is 32, he's not going to develop any further at this stage.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

It was said at a press conference. Its diplomatic to mention everyone.

He didn't mention Hagan?

Blackheath

I would love to see John Andress given some class of a run out just to see how he copes

Scioch

Trimble didnt look too limited tonight. He's an extremely good player and strong in all aspects of his game. Hard to justify Gilroy or Zebo ahead of him for the SA game. I'd like to see the younger guys get game time but if your picking your strongest team then Trimble and Bowe with Earls at FB is what we should see. But I know we'll see Zebo start.

Just as we'll see POM ahead of the infinitely superior Henry. And Murray ahead of Reddan. And ROG wasting space on the bench.

Henderson had another cracker too, the guy is the second coming of Ferris by the looks of it. Hope he gets a run out.

Glass Prison 1214

Scioch wrote: »

Henderson had another cracker too, the guy is the second coming of Ferris by the looks of it. Hope he gets a run out.

hopefully hes not made of glass like the first coming

jimbomalley

My teams for SA/Argentina, any combo of the players listed in each position, allowing for injurys, trying some new guys out in problem positions but also keeping an experienced spine there. Blood a few new guys against tough nuts like SA/Argies, do them the world of good

Henshaw/Jones/Bowe
Bowe/Gilroy/Conway
BOD/Cave/Earls
McSharry/Darcy/Marshall
Earls/Zebo/Trimble
Sexyboy/Jackson/Keatley
Marshall/Marmion/Murray
Heaslip/Wilson/Coughlan
Henry/Dougal
Henderson/O Mahoney
POC/McCarthy/Touhy
Stevenson/Ryan/Henderson
Healy/Buckley/Kilcoyne
Best/Strauss
Andress/Fitzy/Bent - give mike an auld rest ya know

thomond2006

It's such a shame the Argie squad will be weakened, a full strength Argentina would be a massive test for Ireland. I doubt that will do the ticket sales any good either.

Donald Coyle

jimbomalley wrote: »

My teams for SA/Argentina, any combo of the players listed in each position, allowing for injurys, trying some new guys out in problem positions but also keeping an experienced spine there. Blood a few new guys against tough nuts like SA/Argies, do them the world of good

Henshaw/Jones/Bowe
Bowe/Gilroy/Conway
BOD/Cave/Earls
McSharry/Darcy/Marshall
Earls/Zebo/Trimble
Sexyboy/Jackson/Keatley (Where's ROG, are you mad?? )
Marshall/Marmion/Murray (I'd swap Murray for Reddan here)
Heaslip/Wilson/Coughlan (Isn't Coughlan injured?)
Henry/Dougal (maybe Dougal needs to prove himself a bit more first)
Henderson/O Mahoney (is Ferris out? Don't forget Locky @ Leinster)
POC/McCarthy/Touhy
Stevenson/Ryan/Henderson
Healy/Buckley/Kilcoyne (TB?? :eek: DB right?)
Best/Strauss
Andress/Fitzy/Bent - give mike an auld rest ya know (Might need Mike for SA at least)

I appreciate and agree with the intention to get new blood into the squad, but maybe too much too soon.

Donald Coyle

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

hopefully hes not made of glass like the first coming

Love the irony

bilston

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/7872703/East-Coast-rally-to-beat-Whanganui

Anyone heard of John Semple? No idea on the standard though, but for what it's worth the team he plays for won the NPC in 2000. If nothing else it's aLways nice to see an Irishman doing well abroad.

GerM

bilston wrote: »

Anyone heard of John Semple? No idea on the standard though, but for what it's worth the team he plays for won the NPC in 2000. If nothing else it's aLways nice to see an Irishman doing well abroad.

He was playing AIL last year up your direction, bilston. Played with Ballymena.