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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #5972
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    That's an odd one all right. Management maybe gonna cap him for future security ? Dont understand why they would bring him into the Irish squad to check him out when he's signed on to play in Ireland for the rest of the season.


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    #5973
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Scioch wrote: »
    That's an odd one all right. Management maybe gonna cap him for future security ? Dont understand why they would bring him into the Irish squad to check him out when he's signed on to play in Ireland for the rest of the season.

    Because we don't have great depth at the position. By all accounts he's a very good scrummager and so if he does turn out to be as good as advertised he'll probably be involved in February. This gives him a head start on integrating with the squad and developing a working relationship with the guys he'll be playing beside (particularly Rory Best). There are things like lineout calls and defensive organisational things he'll need to learn before he's a viable option.

    Another thing to remember is he plays both sides. Not like Court "plays both sidesish". He supposedly is actually quite handy on either side. So if we go back to 22 man squads he could be very useful indeed.

    I'd say he'll be doing what Richardt Strauss has been doing in Ireland camos earlier in the year. Just training and getting used to things and people. Maybe we'll see him off the bench against Fiji or Argentina.


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    #5974
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Because we don't have great depth at the position. By all accounts he's a very good scrummager and so if he does turn out to be as good as advertised he'll probably be involved in February. This gives him a head start on integrating with the squad and developing a working relationship with the guys he'll be playing beside (particularly Rory Best). There are things like lineout calls and defensive organisational things he'll need to learn before he's a viable option.

    Another thing to remember is he plays both sides. Not like Court "plays both sidesish". He supposedly is actually quite handy on either side. So if we go back to 22 man squads he could be very useful indeed.

    I'd say he'll be doing what Richardt Strauss has been doing in Ireland camos earlier in the year. Just training and getting used to things and people. Maybe we'll see him off the bench against Fiji or Argentina.

    Can't do much for squad morale, though, if the guy just touches down at Dublin airport and comes in as the propping Messiah. In NZ, you have to play in either the ITM cup or S15 before you can make the ABs. This stops players cherry picking their moments eg play in Europe, return to NZ to play for ABs, return to Europe.

    However, life isn't fair, so if he is actually good enough, and he's better than someone who's been doing time, then I guess Kidney feels he's worth a punt...


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    #5975
    Cleahaigh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭Cleahaigh


    The credible word from New Zealand is that Bent is no better than Borlase, and we all know how that turned out. Pathetic stuff from the IRFU.


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    #5976
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Cleahaigh wrote: »
    The credible word from New Zealand is that Bent is no better than Borlase, and we all know how that turned out. Pathetic stuff from the IRFU.

    Source?


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    #5977
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Bent is Irish qualified isn't he, so why the big deal. He's no different than any of the likes of Rob Henderson, Shane Geoghan, etc., played their club rugby in another country and wants to play international rugby for Ireland. If he's good enough then why not. Kinda tough on those who came through academies here but that shouldn't rule out other players.


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    #5978
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I doubt he'll play, I'd say the Irish management just want a look at him. It would be grossly unfair to Fitzpatrick if Bent, who hasn't played a minute for Leinster, got picked ahead of him.

    What's fair got to do with it really? It's professional sport.

    Having said that I've never seen Bent play so I've no idea of his standard.


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    #5979
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Cleahaigh wrote: »
    The credible word from New Zealand is that Bent is no better than Borlase, and we all know how that turned out. Pathetic stuff from the IRFU.

    It's brilliant from the IRFU. He's Irish qualified so why wouldn't they bring him in. It's a position we struggle hugely in terms of strength and depth.

    And I don't know who your source of the first part of your post is. But I've heard very good things


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    #5980
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Bent's club scrum coach and all the Leinster front row are in Ireland camp. He'd be kicking his heals pretty much on his own back in Leinster.


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    #5981
    Swan Curry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Swan Curry


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    I don't get this "hold the tackle bags thing", it seems Kidney is damned no matter what he does. Of the additions made, most will take part in the Fiji game and that's only a positive thing considering our first 15 basically picks itself bar one or two. Which I personally can't wait for now.

    Plus tickets are only 15e

    You're right,I'm probably taking an unnecessarily pessimistic view on the selections.It's just hard to see these players being selected for the Fiji game as a positive when they'll most likely be nowhere near the squad come the 6 Nations.


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    #5982
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Swiwi wrote: »
    Can't do much for squad morale, though, if the guy just touches down at Dublin airport and comes in as the propping Messiah. In NZ, you have to play in either the ITM cup or S15 before you can make the ABs. This stops players cherry picking their moments eg play in Europe, return to NZ to play for ABs, return to Europe.

    However, life isn't fair, so if he is actually good enough, and he's better than someone who's been doing time, then I guess Kidney feels he's worth a punt...

    I don't think it's much different to how the NZRU treated SBW. Granted he played a little at home before he made his debut, but the same might happen with Bent. I think the only difference is the fact Bent coincidentally finished his ITM season just as the Irish squad needed cover at TH.

    Not that Bent is in the same league as SBW was. Just that if you're good enough and elligible you'll be involved. It's professional sports.


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    #5983
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I don't think it's much different to how the NZRU treated SBW. Granted he played a little at home before he made his debut, but the same might happen with Bent. I think the only difference is the fact Bent coincidentally finished his ITM season just as the Irish squad needed cover at TH.

    Not that Bent is in the same league as SBW was. Just that if you're good enough and elligible you'll be involved. It's professional sports.

    They fast-tracked Luke McAlister back in after 1 or 2 token ITM cup games when he came back from Europe, and that back-fired badly. McAlister was awful when he returned home, and quickly headed back to France...a pity, because he was damn good in 2007.

    (NB: SBW played a whole season of ITM cup before he was selected for the AB end of year tour)


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    #5984
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    phog wrote: »
    Bent is Irish qualified isn't he, so why the big deal. He's no different than any of the likes of Rob Henderson, Shane Geoghan, etc., played their club rugby in another country and wants to play international rugby for Ireland. If he's good enough then why not. Kinda tough on those who came through academies here but that shouldn't rule out other players.

    It's not really. Assume you meant Simon Geoghegan; himself and Henderson both considered themselves Irish. They joined LI as youngsters specifically and represented Ireland at underage levels. Their intention was to play for Ireland and they gave Ireland their best. Bent is someone that was completely unknown 6 months ago and only came on the scene because of his ancestry. If he had ever had any desire to play for Ireland he waited long enough to display it.

    I'm not against the notion of someone playing based on ancestry at all. But in these circumstances, I find it a bit much that the fella has stepped off a plane and is officially called into the Irish squad. If it was just to get familiar with calls and integrated, he could have trained with them like plenty of players have done in the past without being officially part of the squad. It looks like the intention is to use him as soon as possible. That's a major kick in the teeth for others.


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    #5985
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    durkadurka wrote: »
    These guys too from leinsterrugby.ie:


    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/10547.php


    Ireland Squad Additions (Club/Province/International Caps):

    Sean Cronin (St.Mary’s College/Leinster/21)
    Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster)*
    Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)*
    Paul Marshall (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
    Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)*
    Michael Bent (Leinster)*
    Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins/Munster/2)

    Do they know something we don't??


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    #5986
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Swiwi wrote: »
    They fast-tracked Luke McAlister back in after 1 or 2 token ITM cup games when he came back from Europe, and that back-fired badly. McAlister was awful when he returned home, and quickly headed back to France...a pity, because he was damn good in 2007.

    (NB: SBW played a whole season of ITM cup before he was selected for the AB end of year tour)

    He made his ITM Cup debut 2 months before playing for New Zealand. Didn't have to play Super 15 at all, is the point. As you say there are other examples of NZ players being brought into the squad. I'd say its pretty fair to say SBW was selected for New Zealand based on what he'd done in Europe and in the NRL.

    It's not like Bent has been selected for Ireland. He's just being named in an extended squad. Generally players need to do a hell of a lot for Kidney to acknowledge them.


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    #5987
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    Could be the first man to be capped by Ireland without ever playing a game at any level in the country?


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    #5988
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Could be the first man to be capped by Ireland without ever playing a game at any level in the country?

    As far as I'm aware. Court is the closest thing who played for Ireland A before representing any other side. As it stands, I think Bent will be released for the Ospreys game to get some sort of live scrummaging.


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    #5989
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Well he has got to be better than Archer who would have been the next best pick.


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    #5990
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Well he has got to be better than Archer who would have been the next best pick.

    Loughney has gone from winning a penalty try against Toulouse and playing NZ in the summer to complete obscurity. John Andress has started every game this season in the AP. There are options there.


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    #5991
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    GerM wrote: »
    Loughney has gone from winning a penalty try against Toulouse and playing NZ in the summer to complete obscurity. John Andress has started every game this season in the AP. There are options there.

    Yeah you are right. I'd say Feel has tipped Bent to Deccie.


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    #5992
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    GerM wrote: »
    Loughney has gone from winning a penalty try against Toulouse and playing NZ in the summer to complete obscurity. John Andress has started every game this season in the AP. There are options there.

    Loughney isn't going to be starting ahead of Nathan White any time soon and he mustn't have made an impression down under.

    Andress is a puzzler though. We need to get him contracted to a province this summer (Munster, looking at you!)


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    #5993
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    I think the additions are good. As for Bent...well, it's a very murky area...ancestry beats playing here for 3 years imo but that's only because in certain cases those people consider themselves Irish. And that's not really a tangible thing. I do think that having just stepped off the plane, it's too soon.


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    #5994
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    If I might play devils advocate here and suggest that maybe Mike Sherry might feel a little peeved about not getting in ahead of Cronin.


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    #5995
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    If I might play devils advocate here and suggest that maybe Mike Sherry might feel a little peeved about not getting in ahead of Cronin.

    Meh...Sherry has never been ahead of Cronin in the Ireland pecking order. He's played well enough this season, but had a few bad games thrown in there. He needs to cement himself ahead of Varley, and get a good run of form before he can feel aggrieved about this kind of decision.

    (It's something I think he can do, Varley's darts have been more erratic than usual this season and indiscipline is always a problem)


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    #5996
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    Meh...Sherry has never been ahead of Cronin in the Ireland pecking order. He's played well enough this season, but had a few bad games thrown in there. He needs to cement himself ahead of Varley, and get a good run of form before he can feel aggrieved about this kind of decision.

    (It's something I think he can do, Varley's darts have been more erratic than usual this season and indiscipline is always a problem)

    Ha I agree. Was more raising the point for the sake of discussion more so than anything else.

    TBH I've been pretty disappointed with how Cronin hasn't really developed as much as I though he would when he moved to Leinster. But infairness it's tough being behind someone like Strauss

    If Sherry does nail down the number 2 shirt from Munster between now and Christmas. There may be a decision to be made for the 6 nations squad


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    #5997
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    If I might play devils advocate here and suggest that maybe Mike Sherry might feel a little peeved about not getting in ahead of Cronin.

    Devil's advocate is one thing, but in reality Cronin is substantially better than Sherry.


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    #5998
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    totallegend wrote: »
    Devil's advocate is one thing, but in reality Cronin is substantially better than Sherry.

    hmm substantially might be stretching it a little. Cronin is better alright but I think the gap is closing!


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    #5999
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Cronins scrummaging has come on massively under Feek. I haven't seen much of Sherry in a while, how is his scrummaging?


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    #6000
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Cronins scrummaging has come on massively under Feek. I haven't seen much of Sherry in a while, how is his scrummaging?

    Pretty well on anecdotal evidence, I personally find it very hard to tell how a hooker is scrumaging compared to a TH or LH!


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    #6001
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Loughney isn't going to be starting ahead of Nathan White any time soon and he mustn't have made an impression down under.

    Andress is a puzzler though. We need to get him contracted to a province this summer (Munster, looking at you!)

    Andress changed his mind about moving to Munster when he heard BJ Botha was also coming.

    Edit: Here is a quote from him.
    Andress is out of contract at the end of the season and despite interest from the provinces, he's decided to move to Worcester Warriors. His agent was in talks with Munster last season, but a deal to return to Ulster appeared to have been sealed until they managed to convince John Afoa to swap Auckland for Ravenhill.

    “I don’t really want to go back home to sit on the bench behind someone I’m potentially better than,” explains Andress. “Munster have brought in BJ Botha this season and Ulster have got John Afoa, so I’d imagine there won’t be many opportunities there.”

    http://www.irishpost.co.uk/index.php/component/content/article/2-sport-news/182-school-of-hard-props%E2%80%8F


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