Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Fishooks12

Lelantos wrote: »

Why not Trimble at 11?

Because Zebo offers far more, and is the form winger in Ireland right now. That would be my reasoning

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Jones plays well this weekend I'd pick him at 15 anyway. We should be selecting full backs at full back.

I'd agree. He's lucky to get in considering his lack of game time. But I really wouldn't be too upset to see either of those two backlines start a test

Fireball07

thomond2006 wrote: »

BOD and Best both out?! Dear lord...

If BOD is gone for 12 weeks, he might struggle to make the Six Nations opener too.

Healy, Cronin, Ross, Ryan, POC, Ferris, Henry, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Zebo, D'Arcy, Cave, Bowe, Earls

is what I'd go for, but I'm certain Earls will play at 13 as he's always been Kidney's second choice outside centre.

That's what I'd go for too.

Earls would be my 2nd choice 13 too tbf, but he's also my 2nd choice 15 and I wouldn't risk Jones.

And I'd say Strauss, POM and Murray will start.

Lelantos

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Because Zebo offers far more, and is the form winger in Ireland right now. That would be my reasoning

I'm a fan of Zebos, but I think Trimble had a spanking game last Friday, deserves his place ahead of Zebo at the moment imo

Fishooks12

Lelantos wrote: »

I'm a fan of Zebos, but I think Trimble had a spanking game last Friday, deserves his place ahead of Zebo at the moment imo

Zebo has been Munsters best player this season and while Trimble was very good last weekend, he's hardly been playing like that week in week out.

Lelantos

Tox56 wrote: »

The last thing Felix needs after all he has been through is a few 18 stone boks running down his way, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Very interesting decision for Kidney, I think 15. Earls 13. Cave is a better option than 15. Jones 13. Earls but it wouldn't be the first time I've disagreed with DK.

I agree about the Boks running down his throat. But, he's the only fb in the country. Earls doesn't have the kicking game to be a top class fb

Lelantos

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Zebo has been Munsters best player this season and while Trimble was very good last weekend, he's hardly been playing like that week in week out.

I've only seen 2 Ulster games this season, so can't say, but he has been on top form for both those. But, I wouldn't be unhappy to see Zebo start ahead of him.

Fireball07

Lelantos wrote: »

I agree about the Boks running down his throat. But, he's the only fb in the country. Earls doesn't have the kicking game to be a top class fb

Kicking isn't really a weakness of Earls though...it's not brilliant, but it's not bad. And Jones doesn't exactly have a great kicking game either. I honestly think Earls is a better full-back than Jones as of now.

Fishooks12

Zebo has the full package to be a 15. Just a pity he hasn't been played there for Munster yet, could be a real option for Ireland

Larbre34

Lelantos wrote: »

I've only seen 2 Ulster games this season, so can't say, but he has been on top form for both those. But, I wouldn't be unhappy to see Zebo start ahead of him.

I would, Zebo would get mushed by the Boks, Trimble has the form, the experience and physicality. No.11 should be nailed onto him just now.

Before the loss of O'Driscoll I wouldve gone with the risk of moving Bowe to 15 but everyone in the back division must play to their strengths now and Jones had a good run last week

I'd go for 15. Jones 14. Bowe 13. Earls 12. D'Arcy 11. Trimble

I hope Downey is the one to benefit from O'Driscolls absence, I wouldve had him in the squad ten times over Cave. We shall know anon....

irishbucsfan

I don't think Earls at full back is close to the Felix Jones that played for Ireland or the Felix Jones that played in the Churchill Cup. So I think he should be given a chance to produce that form for Munster this weekend.

bilston

The thing is when the doubts over BOD were first realised Kidney added 7 new players to the squad and Jones wasn't one of them. I don't think Kidney is considering him at this stage. The argument that maybe he just wants him to stay with Munster and get another game doesn't really hold for me as he could easily have named him and still played him this weekend for Munster. Presumably 7 or 8 of the squad will be released to play for their provinces.

One of our best recent performances was against England in 2011 and the backline that day was

9 Reddan
10 Sexton
11 Trimble
12 D'Arcy
13 O'Driscoll
14 Bowe
15 Earls

Simply swap Cave for BOD and I think you have a very good backline for SA. Strong defensive midfield with intelligence to boot and some great strikepower in the back three and Sexton orchestrating things from 10. Of course Murray will probably start at 9 but when he plays well he can be an asset to the team anyway.

Fishooks12

Larbre34 wrote: »

I would, Zebo would get mushed by the Boks, Trimble has the form, the experience and physicality. No.11 should be nailed onto him just now.

I hope Downey is the one to benefit from O'Driscolls absence, I wouldve had him in the squad ten times over Cave. We shall know anon....

What??? You do know Downey is a 12

And Zebo is in better form than Trimble, who apart from last weekend has been average this season. Zebo also has far more of an attacking threat and is arguably better in the air. The only thing Trimble has over Zebo is improved physicality, but what Zebo offers in attack far outweighs this negative in my opinion.

él statutorio

Fireball07 wrote: »

Kicking isn't really a weakness of Earls though...it's not brilliant, but it's not bad. And Jones doesn't exactly have a great kicking game either. I honestly think Earls is a better full-back than Jones as of now.

Based on what exactly?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Larbre34 wrote: »

I hope Downey is the one to benefit from O'Driscolls absence, I wouldve had him in the squad ten times over Cave. We shall know anon....

First of all he doesn't play 13 and second isn't he injured??

Larbre34

Fishooks12 wrote: »

What??? You do know Downey is a 12

Is he? Go way.

Of course I know, the implication would be to replace D'Arcy or have McFadden on the bench as 12/13/14 cover. We're too light by far in the backs and I think Downey should be in there for balance

Fireball07

Larbre34 wrote: »

I would, Zebo would get mushed by the Boks, Trimble has the form, the experience and physicality. No.11 should be nailed onto him just now.

Before the loss of O'Driscoll I wouldve gone with the risk of moving Bowe to 15 but everyone in the back division must play to their strengths now and Jones had a good run last week

I'd go for 15. Jones 14. Bowe 13. Earls 12. D'Arcy 11. Trimble

I hope Downey is the one to benefit from O'Driscolls absence, I wouldve had him in the squad ten times over Cave. We shall know anon....

But Downey is a 12, not a 13? Not to mention Cave is definitely better than Downey in his own position (not to mention Downey has a broken hand).


Zebo has been in fantastic form this season, Trimble played excellently the last day and has been doing well but Zebo has been Munster's best player. Extremely dangerous in attack, safe as a house under the high ball and has a monster left boot. Defensively, Trimble has the edge...he is more physical and more experienced, no doubt about that. However, I don't know whether that's going to make that much of a difference here...I'd pick Zebo tbh, he's able to look after himself.

danthefan

Larbre34 wrote: »

Is he? Go way.

Of course I know, the implication would be to replace D'Arcy or have McFadden on the bench as 12/13/14 cover. We're too light by far in the backs and I think Downey should be in there for balance

What has that got to do with BOD being injured? When one of your first choice centres gets injured replacing the other one generally isn't the best idea around. Plus Downey hasn't really done anything to deserve to be starting for Ireland.

Swiwi

Ouch! Not the best news for Ireland and doesn't bod well for the upcoming Autumn series. IMO - damage limitation: choose Trimble v chance at victory: choose Zebo (but could backfire).

Fireball07

él statutorio wrote: »

Based on what exactly?

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but:

based on Jones' indifferent form when he came back from injury last season, as well as his tendency to bounce off tackles from time to time and his somewhat aimless kicking.

I think Earls is the most dangerous counter-attacking player in the Munster squad, he uses the ball more intelligently, reasonably good in the air, decent boot. He made his breakthrough for Munster at 15 and was always a real threat and has done a job there for Ireland in the past.


A fully fit and in-form Jones might be better but we don't know whether he'll ever reach that level again, he was certainly nowhere near it last season.

Swiwi

Well, one thing in Ireland's favour is you know the SA tactics: big forward pack + up 'n unders all day - but without Habana, which helps no end. Although JP Pieterson is back, and he had a fantastic S15.

Larbre34

I didnt know Downey was out for a stint, but I'm a big fan of his work. I'd replace D'Arcy anyway to be honest but thats just me, and I say that as a Leinster fan. Of the classiest 12s in Ireland my own opinion would be 1.McFadden 2. Downey 3. Sexton 4. D'Arcy. 5. P Wallace. Thats a bit tongue in cheek but you get my drift...

So, who to benefit from the call up in the centres?

danthefan

Fireball07 wrote: »

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but:

based on Jones' indifferent form when he came back from injury last season, as well as his tendency to bounce off tackles from time to time and his somewhat aimless kicking.

I think Earls is the most dangerous counter-attacking player in the Munster squad, he uses the ball more intelligently, reasonably good in the air, decent boot. He made his breakthrough for Munster at 15 and was always a real threat and has done a job there for Ireland in the past.


A fully fit and in-form Jones might be better but we don't know whether he'll ever reach that level again, he was certainly nowhere near it last season.

I agree with you completely. The hysteria that surrounded Jones after a handful of league/Amlin games back in 2011 was ridiculous. People had him down as better than Kearney, starting in the RWC etc. I know he got injured but he isn't half the player Kearney is and his form has been shaky since he's come back from injury. I'd like to see him get a decent run in the Munster side, show some form again and then have a look at him. Under the circumstances we're in now I think Earls to fullback is best use of resources.

irishbucsfan

Downey is classier than Paddy Wallace!

él statutorio

Fireball07 wrote: »

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but:

based on Jones' indifferent form when he came back from injury last season, as well as his tendency to bounce off tackles from time to time and his somewhat aimless kicking.

I think Earls is the most dangerous counter-attacking player in the Munster squad, he uses the ball more intelligently, reasonably good in the air, decent boot. He made his breakthrough for Munster at 15 and was always a real threat and has done a job there for Ireland in the past.


A fully fit and in-form Jones might be better but we don't know whether he'll ever reach that level again, he was certainly nowhere near it last season.

A reasonable argument.

Jones was in fantastic form prior to the the WC cup though, if he can close to that again we'll be in safe hands. He is, I feel, much better under a high ball than Earls (I expect a lot of high balls from the Saffers). We'll see how he gets on this weekend I suppose.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Downey is classier than Paddy Wallace!

At rugby?

él statutorio

danthefan wrote: »

I agree with you completely. The hysteria that surrounded Jones after a handful of league/Amlin games back in 2011 was ridiculous. People had him down as better than Kearney, starting in the RWC etc. I know he got injured but he isn't half the player Kearney is and his form has been shaky since he's come back from injury. I'd like to see him get a decent run in the Munster side, show some form again and then have a look at him. Under the circumstances we're in now I think Earls to fullback is best use of resources.

He has played 20 mins in a HC game and 80 mins against Zebre (and scored). He mightn't have set the world alight but it's hardly shaky form.

bilston

Larbre34 wrote: »

Of the classiest 12s in Ireland my own opinion would be 1.McFadden 2. Downey 3. Sexton 4. D'Arcy. 5. P Wallace. Thats a bit tongue in cheek but you get my drift...

So, who to benefit from the call up in the centres?

Sorry but you've got that list completely the wrong way round! Don't get me wrong Downey and McFadden are a lot of things but they are absolutely not classier players than Paddy Wallace!

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

At rugby?

I dunno, But according to the poster above he's classier at something

Fireball07

él statutorio wrote: »

A reasonable argument.

Jones was in fantastic form prior to the the WC cup though, if he can close to that again we'll be in safe hands. He is, I feel, much better under a high ball than Earls (I expect a lot of high balls from the Saffers). We'll see how he gets on this weekend I suppose.

I think Jones deserved his place in the Ireland squad back then, his form was excellent. (Not ahead of Kearney obviously but he was no. 2 imo) But as of now, I'd wait until he gets some form again.

He might be slightly better than Earls under the high ball, but I'd be very surprised if Earls let us down. To be honest, I just think Earls is an extremely talented player and he's improving all the time.