Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Mr.Opti

Talk of Earls playing fullback is nonsense now that BOD is out injured!! Earls if fully fit will start at 13 and Bowe will probably play at 15 with Zebo & Trimble on the wings unless either Keatley, Madigan or Jones gets called up after this weekend.

I can see Jones getting called up & probably starting

snow mad

I for one think playing zebo instead of trimble will give us a better chance off winning SA like to kick having zebo and bowe in the back 3 will give us a great treat from deep also if earls is playing at 15 it gives us another kicking option when we come under pressure from the sa pack

Fishooks12

Scioch wrote: »

So O'Halloran should start instead of Bowe too ? What are we gonna learn from playing Bowe when we could play a young guy with bags of potential who's on form ?

Marshall at SH. Madigan/Keatley/Jackson at OH. Toner and Ryan in second row. Henderson and Henry into the back row.

Where do you draw the line with on form young talent replacing their already established international counterparts ? Why is it only Zebo getting his chance ?

Bench him and give him some time by all means but to jump him straight to the head of the queue is utter madness. Trimble is a better winger, why would you start an inferior player in a game you want to win ??

I see you've taken my post and drawn hysterical exaggerated conclusions from it, well done.

I think Zebo should start because he's been the best winger in Ireland this year and has improved his all round game hugely. Simple as.

I think he has a lot more to offer than Trimble right now and in the future.

Scioch

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I see you've taken my post and drawn hysterical exaggerated conclusions from it, well done.

I think Zebo should start because he's been the best winger in Ireland this year and has improved his all round game hugely. Simple as.

I think he has a lot more to offer than Trimble right now and in the future.

I'm not being hysterical just pointing out the flaw in what seemed to be your argument of starting Zebo who's on form as we cant learn anything by starting Trimble.

But if you think he's just a better player then thats a different story (one you didnt make clear in your last post). I disagree he's better than Trimble and Bowe though. But my point was start the best team not weaken it to give game time to an up and coming in a game like this. We just seem to disagree on who the better player is.

Fishooks12

Scioch wrote: »

I'm not being hysterical just pointing out the flaw in what seemed to be your argument of starting Zebo who's on form as we cant learn anything by starting Trimble.

But if you think he's just a better player then thats a different story (one you didnt make clear in your last post). I disagree he's better than Trimble and Bowe though. But my point was start the best team not weaken it to give game time to an up and coming in a game like this. We just seem to disagree on who the better player is.

I've stated a few times on this thread that I think Zebo is playing better rugby than Trimble right now.

As I see it the only thing Trimble offers over Zebo is increased physicality

totallegend

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I think Zebo should start because he's been the best winger in Ireland this year and has improved his all round game hugely. Simple as.

I think he has a lot more to offer than Trimble right now and in the future.

I assume you mean this season rather than this year (2012)?

Fishooks12

totallegend wrote: »

I assume you mean this season rather than this year (2012)?

Ya sorry, this season rather than the whole year.

molloyjh

Scioch wrote: »

Why not go one crazier and start our strongest team and let the young players get their time off the bench if its an option ?

Because bench places are limited and we'll likely see Ferg there to cover 11-14.

Hagz wrote: »

You could say that Ireland want to win all their games, so why take a chance on anyone in that case?

There's already at least 1 person trying to make that case....

Hagz wrote: »

The idea of Zebo starting is being shot down so aggressively. What's the big deal?

I would guess people are just a bit tired of seeing young Munster talent getting the opportunities while the others are left waiting for someone to retire or get seriously injured. We'll see soon enough whether Cave gets the opportunity he deserves. Or Henry for that matter. It does get frustrating to see other players who deserve a shot not getting it when the likes of Murray, POM and Zebo are straight in on the back of a few good games. Madigan for example had a fantastic season last season scoring 8 tries (to Zebos 12) from out-half. He's gone on this season to play a few games at full-back and while he hasn't set the world alight he's been solid enough. So where is his chance going to come from? We've more depth at winger than out-half in the Ireland squad don't forget.

Fishooks12 wrote: »

As I see it the only thing Trimble offers over Zebo is increased physicality

That seems to be a good enough reason for selecting a scrum half, why not a winger?:p

JRant

Zebo v Trimble is exactly the type of problem we need in this squad, ie genuine competition for places. Both players have their strenghts and should be picked according to the oppostion really, as a good coach would do.

Backrow selections should be interesting though. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees Henry is the form 7 at the moment so as sure as night follows day POM will get the nod.

Same problem in the second-row. I'd have POC and McCarthy with Ryan's ability to come on and play second/back row.

Murray/Reddan is an interesting one. Reddan and Marshall have been the standout SH's this season. For all Murrays qualities he just doesn't do it for me. I don't understand his continued selection. Is he that good to be ahead of both these guys?

jm08

Swiwi wrote: »

Ok, well that answers that so. Bowe is far and away Ireland's best winger, so I wouldn't move him to FB. Have not seen Earls play there either, so can't comment, but aside from my previously aired concerns about his defence at centre (which I am told by other posters has improved no end), I would probably put Earls at 13 then.

Bowe played the 3rd Test for the Lions at 13 against South Africa in 2009 (along side Ricky Flutey at 12).

totallegend

See this is it, if Zebo is the form pick on the wing (and I'm not convinced), then it must surely follow that Murray will get the bullet and Henry plays 7?

Mr.Opti

JRant wrote: »

Zebo v Trimble is exactly the type of problem we need in this squad, ie genuine competition for places. Both players have their strenghts and should be picked according to the oppostion really, as a good coach would do.

Backrow selections should be interesting though. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees Henry is the form 7 at the moment so as sure as night follows day POM will get the nod.

Same problem in the second-row. I'd have POC and McCarthy with Ryan's ability to come on and play second/back row.

Murray/Reddan is an interesting one. Reddan and Marshall have been the standout SH's this season. For all Murrays qualities he just doesn't do it for me. I don't understand his continued selection. Is he that good to be ahead of both these guys?

Personally i don't there should be a question between Zebo & Trimble. Zebo is the better player & can create something out of nothing which is what you need in international games.

Backrow - I'd love to Henry get a full game but maybe not against S.A.

Second Row - McCarthy wouldn't be in my squad. I'd have Ryan starting.

Scrum Half - Against S.A Murray should/will start. His abrasiveness is needed and his kicking is better than Reddan

ray jay

JRant wrote: »

Backrow selections should be interesting though. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees Henry is the form 7 at the moment so as sure as night follows day POM will get the nod.

With all the doubts being expressed about Ferris, POM may end up at 6 in which case Henry would surely have to play openside.

Podge_irl

totallegend wrote: »

See this is it, if Zebo is the form pick on the wing (and I'm not convinced), then it must surely follow that Murray will get the bullet and Henry plays 7?

I don't think we should be harsh on Zebo just because of Kidney's predilection for Munster players. He wasn't a deserved selection last year but I think he is this year.

Fireball07

JRant wrote: »

Murray/Reddan is an interesting one. Reddan and Marshall have been the standout SH's this season. For all Murrays qualities he just doesn't do it for me. I don't understand his continued selection. Is he that good to be ahead of both these guys?

Murray is doing okay this season, he seems to be doing the basics a lot better than he was. He's getting the ball away a lot quicker and his kicking has been pretty good.

His season has been overshadowed by a number of horrible brainfarts against Racing, which were really awful.

Reddan's done okay, excellent the last day but has had a few patchy games too. Marshall has had a few brilliant games and I'd include him somewhere... and Marmion's been really good too. I actually don't think there's much between all 4. Purely on form, I'd pick Marshall.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think we should be harsh on Zebo just because of Kidney's predilection for Munster players. He wasn't a deserved selection last year but I think he is this year.

That's an absolutely fair point. And I was only guessing as to why people have an issue with Zebo. I personally don't this season.....unlike last season. I could be wrong???

molloyjh

Fireball07 wrote: »

Murray is doing okay this season, he seems to be doing the basics a lot better than he was. He's getting the ball away a lot quicker and his kicking has been pretty good.

His season has been overshadowed by a number of horrible brainfarts against Racing, which were really awful.

Reddan's done okay, excellent the last day but has had a few patchy games too. Marshall has had a few brilliant games and I'd include him somewhere... and Marmion's been really good too. I actually don't think there's much between all 4. Purely on form, I'd pick Marshall.

But what else would you consider other than form in this instance? You can't pick one player over another based on form and then apply different criteria to others. Well unless you're DK of course....

totallegend

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think we should be harsh on Zebo just because of Kidney's predilection for Munster players. He wasn't a deserved selection last year but I think he is this year.

Just pointing out that form is everything in certain instances and counts for nothing in others it seems.

If POM starts at 7 it will be an utter travesty and the final proof of DK's bias.

The poster suggesting Murray's kicking is a reason for his inclusion needs to watch more rugby.

Tox56

I think Zebo is suffering the DOC/D'Arcy treatment. People are still annoyed he was selected when he didn't deserve it and/or there were better options, and they resent him playing even when he finds form and arguably deserves it.

JRant

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Personally i don't there should be a question between Zebo & Trimble. Zebo is the better player & can create something out of nothing which is what you need in international games.

Backrow - I'd love to Henry get a full game but maybe not against S.A.

Second Row - McCarthy wouldn't be in my squad. I'd have Ryan starting.

Scrum Half - Against S.A Murray should/will start. His abrasiveness is needed and his kicking is better than Reddan

Depends on the opposition if you ask me but there's no way Zebo is that much better.

Regarding Henry, SA is exactly the type of game to play him in. Who would you start ahead of him?

McCarthy's not to everyones liking but he does the job of a secondrow with lovely simplicity. Scrummages well, good in the lineout, excellent at clearing rucks.

The last thing we should do is pick a player because he's abrasive. SH's job is to pass the ball first and foremost.

Iron Hide

I wonder would Kidney consider Denis Hurley for the fullback spot, I know he aint exactly a world beater but he's played most of his rugby at fullback so far this season and is a reasonably safe bet.

Tox56

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Personally i don't there should be a question between Zebo & Trimble. Zebo is the better player & can create something out of nothing which is what you need in international games.

Backrow - I'd love to Henry get a full game but maybe not against S.A.

Second Row - McCarthy wouldn't be in my squad. I'd have Ryan starting.

Scrum Half - Against S.A Murray should/will start. His abrasiveness is needed and his kicking is better than Reddan

You need Murray's abraisiveness but not Trimble's? Playing devils advocate here

JRant

ray jay wrote: »

With all the doubts being expressed about Ferris, POM may end up at 6 in which case Henry would surely have to play openside.

I'd have Lockie at 6 if Fez is injured but we could well see Ryan slot in there with DOC starting lock

Mr.Opti

Tox56 wrote: »

You need Murray's abraisiveness but not Trimble's? Playing devils advocate here

Big differences between positions. Murray is in the centre of the game. With the backrow that SA have who would you prefer to have covering a tackle Reddan or Murray?!?

Trimble is abrasive but doesn't have the pace, acceleration, catching ability of Zebo. And as i said previously Zebo can create something out of nothing unlike Trimble

JRant

Fireball07 wrote: »

Murray is doing okay this season, he seems to be doing the basics a lot better than he was. He's getting the ball away a lot quicker and his kicking has been pretty good.

His season has been overshadowed by a number of horrible brainfarts against Racing, which were really awful.

Reddan's done okay, excellent the last day but has had a few patchy games too. Marshall has had a few brilliant games and I'd include him somewhere... and Marmion's been really good too. I actually don't think there's much between all 4. Purely on form, I'd pick Marshall.

Marshall
Reddan
Marmion
Murray

In that order for me.

Quint2010

JRant wrote: »

I'd have Lockie at 6 if Fez is injured but we could well see Ryan slot in there with DOC starting lock

This absolutely what Kidney will do if Ferris is injured.

Tox56

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Big differences between positions. Murray is in the centre of the game. With the backrow that SA have who would you prefer to have covering a tackle Reddan or Murray?!?

Trimble is abrasive but doesn't have the pace, acceleration, catching ability of Zebo. And as i said previously Zebo can create something out of nothing unlike Trimble

Reddan isn't as good a defender as Murray, but it's rare enough that he gets totally steamrolled. He's a scrumhalf and if you treasure defence in a scrumhalf I'm surprised you don't seem to treasure the same in a winger.

Mr.Opti

Tox56 wrote: »

Reddan isn't as good a defender as Murray, but it's rare enough that he gets totally steamrolled. He's a scrumhalf and if you treasure defence in a scrumhalf I'm surprised you don't seem to treasure the same in a winger.

Your twisting what I am saying to fit your own agenda!! I've given reasons for why Zebo should start & why Murray should.

Scioch

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Big differences between positions. Murray is in the centre of the game. With the backrow that SA have who would you prefer to have covering a tackle Reddan or Murray?!?

Trimble is abrasive but doesn't have the pace, acceleration, catching ability of Zebo. And as i said previously Zebo can create something out of nothing unlike Trimble

Wings will be doing a hell of a lot more tackling than the SH, so if defending against SA backline is what your worried about Trimble should be your pick not Zebo.

Trimble is just as good under the high ball as Zebo and well able create something from nothing, he did it several times in the world cup. But you wouldnt need to rely on creating something from nothing if you got your selections right in ther position. Henry at 7 would be invaluable in slowing down the SA backline and Reddan at 9 would better enable us to stamp our authority and pace on the game.

Defend and hope and then maybe get a nice consolation try isnt how I like to see the team set out. We should b going out to control the game and starve them of possession and players like Trimble, Reddan and Henry would be the men for the job.

bilston

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Talk of Earls playing fullback is nonsense now that BOD is out injured!! Earls if fully fit will start at 13 and Bowe will probably play at 15 with Zebo & Trimble on the wings unless either Keatley, Madigan or Jones gets called up after this weekend.

I can see Jones getting called up & probably starting

Not sure you're right. Seven players were called up at the weekend to cover injuries (BOD included) and Jones wasn't one of them. Earls to 15 and Cave to 13 is what I expect to see.