Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

He was on for 30 mins. Ireland scored 6pts. Hardly nothing as claimed. It als took pressure off Sexton that he didn't have to take the kicks.

At least Murray's breaking ability was putting Australia under pressure.[/QUOTE]


apart from a try dissallowed, what breaking are you talking about??

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

do whatever you like , not sure what your trying to achieve by that but its you time and money.

I would not be remotely interested in making a video of any player to show their flaws. I think anyone who does that has a problem and needs to get out more.

Fishooks12

jm08 wrote: »

I would not be remotely interested in making a video of any player to show their flaws. I think anyone who does that has a problem and needs to get out more.

I'd agree with that, pretty sad really

ssaye

ROG V Sexton threads. It really brings out the worst in posters. That's me done. Damn you Guscott trolling boards.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Montpellier away we played poorly and were lucky to draw. Sexton held his nerve with a late kick to draw the game, but that's not really the sort of thing Guscott is referring to, I don't think.

Bath were very poor and we were never in trouble. Didn't take much management.

Sexton was actually pretty awful against Glasgow, however he was clearly injured early on so I wouldn't blame him. He was also playing outside Reddan who was having a bit of a mare... The game changed with the introduction of Boss.

The Clermont game is not an example either. When the game went against us we just simply allowed them to control possession. I don't think you can say it was Sextons game management that won that game as we were completely dominated in both possession and territory in the closing stages and escaped thanks to a D'Arcy tackle. I remember Sextons defense that day was unbelievable though.


Sexton doesn't have the ability yet to do what ROG did in his prime in the closing stages of games. But I don't see ROG displaying that ability any more either... If he did surely he would have closed out against Ulster?

All subjective of course, but at the time I certainly felt we were in trouble against Bath! We were a point behind with 72 minutes gone, Bath had just scored a try and their tails were up. We worked it up the field on two occasions under pressure a won 2 penalties, job done.

Again with the Montpellier example we were in or around their 22 in the final minutes and Sexton nails it with the last kick of the game, I appreciate that isn't necessarily what Guscott is referring to, but in terms of "closing out a game" what more can you ask for? When Leinster become experts at winning tight games, the fly-half has to take some credit for that.

Don't get me wrong Sexton isn't perfect and has a lot to work on, but the whole argument is whether he has overtaken ROG with the ability to "close out a game". Considering what has happened over the last 2/3 years I think there is only one answer.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

I would not be remotely interested in making a video of any player to show their flaws. I think anyone who does that has a problem and needs to get out more.

You brought up ROG in that game and i merely mentioned the clip. You then made a strange statement about BOD that has zero to do with this. Im done bringing it up because its only going one way but feel free to discuss it with others if you want.

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

jm08 wrote: »

He was on for 30 mins. Ireland scored 6pts. Hardly nothing as claimed. It als took pressure off Sexton that he didn't have to take the kicks.

At least Murray's breaking ability was putting Australia under pressure.[/QUOTE]


apart from a try dissallowed, what breaking are you talking about??

Because of his physicality, he draws the attention of the opposition backrow. I remember him casting Genia (I think) aside as well.

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

You brought up ROG in that game and i merely mentioned the clip. You then made a strange statement about BOD that has zero to do with this. Im done bringing it up because its only going one way but feel free to discuss it with others if you want.

Just for the record, I mentionend BOD because he rarely has a poor game. I could have mentioned any number of players who can be made to look bad just as easily as anyone can be made to look good in a highlights vid.

danthefan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd agree with that, pretty sad really

It wasn't a video of his flaws. It was a video of his entire contribution to the game.

Tox56

I've never seen this ROG video, but if it shows every single touch ROG had in that game I think it's going to be fairly represntative of his performance.

You could make a video that shows BOD to have played poorly, but if he has a good game and you make a video showing every time he was involved, you are probably going to show him having a good game.

phog

Quinny on Project players and players declaring for Ireland

WHEN IRELAND were on tour in New Zealand in 2006, Ronan O’Gara and I went one day to have a coffee with Luke McAlister. Munster were trying to sign him at the time and he wanted to ask us a few questions about the club he might be moving to. We had a good chat – obviously not good enough because he signed for Sale in the end – but the one thing that was eye-opening for me was when he told us that a French club had been on to him since he was 15 to try and get him to sign for them.

Apparently this wasn’t unusual at all in New Zealand. Scouts would be at schoolboy matches watching players as young as 14 and 15 and trying to get them and their families to move halfway across the world to play rugby. At the very least, they wanted to get him onto a database with a view to signing him in the future, to start a relationship that might pay off for the club down the road. He didn’t go for it but it would be interesting to think where his life would have led if he had.

decisions

Anyone got a link to the video?

irishbucsfan

I would be much more interested in jm08s attempt to make a video showing ROG had a good game!

goreyguy

Murray will always not be good enough aslong as he keeps being so slow to rucks and even slower to get passes away. Not to mention his poor tactical kicking.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

I've never seen this ROG video, but if it shows every single touch ROG had in that game I think it's going to be fairly represntative of his performance.

You could make a video that shows BOD to have played poorly, but if he has a good game and you make a video showing every time he was involved, you are probably going to show him having a good game.

According to ESPN stats, BOD missed 2 tackles in that game :pac:

Other info on passes made etc.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/93473.html

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

According to ESPN stats, BOD missed 2 tackles in that game :pac:

Other info on passes made etc.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/93473.html

and.......

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

According to ESPN stats, BOD missed 2 tackles in that game :pac:

Other info on passes made etc.

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/93473.html

And Conor Murray missed one as well :pac:

Mr.Applepie

phog wrote: »

This is going on since the Connacht game (?) why does it take til now to be found out? I hope they drop him now and make sure he's fully fit for 6Ns rather than risk him now for tha AIs.

I thought it was his bicep that was injured recently. Of course it could all be connected

JRant

jm08 wrote: »

What got him on the plane was:
Completely outclassing Reddan in the Magners Final.
Doing fairly well in his debut (sub) against France.
Outclassing Boss in the game against Connacht in the warm-ups (both had a half).
The poor form of Tomas O'Leary.
He went out as 3rd choice SH. His superior defence and his partnership with ROG got him the start against Australia.

Just for the record Murray has 9 caps - and 6 of those have been with Sexton. They need a bit of time to settle. There were other options for Luke Fitz (Trimble & McFadden).

edit: Kearney was selected ahead of Zebo for the 6Ns game (Kearney & Zebo both scored tries in the Saxons game).
Kearney was unavailable for the trip to NZ.

Nah that not what really happened. TOL was dropped because it was physically impossible for him to be playing any worse. He'd been playing like a drain for a while before that aswell. So DK being DK took a look around the province he knows so well and thought, my that Murray lad looks like a backrower, that'll do me now.
Bar France in this years 6N, Murray has done nothing to warrant selection. Now IMHO we have Marshall, Marmion, Reddan and a fit Boss who can all do the job better than Murray but he won't get left aside like Fitzy was.
Why is this?
Why does his selection criteria suddenly do a U-turn when it suits?

Kearney was selected on the bench, got nothing but splinters for his troubles, then Zebo got selected ahead of both lads later despite them being in clearly better form. From what I heard DKearney could of held off on the operation till after the summer tour.

JRant

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

I thought it was his bicep that was injured recently. Of course it could all be connected

Looked like he tweaked something in his shoulder when reaching for his try this weekend.

jm08

JRant wrote: »

Nah that not what really happened. TOL was dropped because it was physically impossible for him to be playing any worse. He'd been playing like a drain for a while before that aswell. So DK being DK took a look around the province he knows so well and thought, my that Murray lad looks like a backrower, that'll do me now.

And whats wrong with that assessment? He was bringing Reddan as well, so there was a variety. Should he have brought Stringer instead?

Bar France in this years 6N, Murray has done nothing to warrant selection. Now IMHO we have Marshall, Marmion, Reddan and a fit Boss who can all do the job better than Murray but he won't get left aside like Fitzy was.
Why is this?
Why does his selection criteria suddenly do a U-turn when it suits?

I thought Murray did ok in the 2nd test (like everyone else). He scored a try. Marshall was dropped in Ulster for a NIQ player to play against Glasgow even though he won a MOTM the previous week. He is not a starter for Ulster. Reddan & Boss (when fit) rotate. Murray & Marmion are the only two starters at the moment.

Kearney was selected on the bench, got nothing but splinters for his troubles, then Zebo got selected ahead of both lads later despite them being in clearly better form. From what I heard DKearney could of held off on the operation till after the summer tour.

Considering what a close game it was, it wouldn't have been fair to throw him into that for his first Test. I think something similar happened to Brian O'Driscoll for his first cap.

What are you basing the better form on - no of trys scored perchance?

I'm sure Dave Kearney could have, but Leinster were probably anxious to get him back as soon as possible. He wasn't making the starting team for the Leinster big games. I see he got 2 minutes against the Ospreys in the Rabo Final, so would not have been available for the Ba-baas game.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And Conor Murray missed one as well :pac:

Reddan missed 2!

totallegend

Jm, the notion that being dropped for pienaar somehow makes Marshall less able to play for Ireland is nonsense. There isn't a scrum half from the last twenty years who'd be ahead of Pienaar. If Pienaar was at any other province, he'd be unassailable first choice too.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Reddan missed 2!

2 tackles in 60 minutes is actually the exact same as 1 tackle in 30. So either this shows that Reddan is equally reliable as Murray. Or perhaps it shows these stats are completely useless and irrelevant in looking back over a game

Scioch

totallegend wrote: »

Jm, the notion that being dropped for pienaar somehow makes Marshall less able to play for Ireland is nonsense. There isn't a scrum half from the last twenty years who'd be ahead of Pienaar. If Pienaar was at any other province, he'd be unassailable first choice too.

Its just another excuse to justify Murrays selection as there was absolutely no reason behind it other than he was a Munster man. Boss was physical and better at the time if Kidney wanted physicality. But he didnt, he just went for the Munster man as he is doing with Zebo and he did with POM.

I dont like saying it as it comes across as both insulting to Munster fans and players (which I dont intend it to be) as well as petty on my part but I have absolutely zero respect for Kidney as a coach so I feel the simple explanation is the best considering the lack of valid reasons for selection. The youth argument is a dud as he constantly ignores young talented players in favour of established ones regardless of form, the ability argument is a dud as all those players were behind their provincial rivals when they got the break. So whats left to go on ?

I'm done beating around the bush on it. They were selected unfairly by a biased coach simply because they were Munster players.

Fireball07

I think selecting McFadden at 13 would be a bad idea. McFadden has a lot of good points, but his skillset isn't exactly suited to that position. His defence isn't great and he can struggle to bring the outside backs into play. Much better at 12, and is better on the wing too.

Cave is a much better 13.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

2 tackles in 60 minutes is actually the exact same as 1 tackle in 30. So either this shows that Reddan is equally reliable as Murray. Or perhaps it shows these stats are completely useless and irrelevant in looking back over a game

It was a comment not to be taken seriously!

Teferi

No decision on Captain yet

Head coach Declan Kidney was asked about a decision on the likely captain just hours after learning of Brian O'Driscoll and Rory Best's unavailability for the November games against South Africa, Fiji and Argentina.

"We'll assess all that now. Paul (O'Connell) isn't training today, he has his own niggles with his back. He was hoping to get a bit of pitch-time this weekend," he said.

"Captain can be an onerous position. We'll let him recover first, we'll look after the person first and then see what's right for the team."

So if POC doesn't recover the likely successor is someone like Heaslip. Perhaps it would be the perfect opportunity for Kidney to sneak ROG back into the team on the basis of "experience and leadership" and have Sexton out in centre?

totallegend

Fireball07 wrote: »

I think selecting McFadden at 13 would be a bad idea. McFadden has a lot of good points, but his skillset isn't exactly suited to that position. His defence isn't great and he can struggle to bring the outside backs into play. Much better at 12, and is better on the wing too.

Cave is a much better 13.

Agree on all of that. Cave is a natural 13, McFadden is not.

TBH the injury to BOD might work out ok if it means we see more of Earls or Cave there. Plus if BOD is fresher for the 6n and Lions, then it's win-win

totallegend

Teferi wrote: »

No decision on Captain yet



So if POC doesn't recover the likely successor is someone like Heaslip. Perhaps it would be the perfect opportunity for Kidney to sneak ROG back into the team on the basis of "experience and leadership" and have Sexton out in centre?

Sure why not go the whole hog and make Bent captain? I think he's earned it