Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

molloyjh

Teferi wrote: »

No decision on Captain yet



So if POC doesn't recover the likely successor is someone like Heaslip. Perhaps it would be the perfect opportunity for Kidney to sneak ROG back into the team on the basis of "experience and leadership" and have Sexton out in centre?

Seriously, don't even joke about it!

I hope to God Paulie is fit. It's bad enough losing Healy, Best, SOB, Drico and Kearney. Any word on Fez?

jm08

totallegend wrote: »

Jm, the notion that being dropped for pienaar somehow makes Marshall less able to play for Ireland is nonsense. There isn't a scrum half from the last twenty years who'd be ahead of Pienaar. If Pienaar was at any other province, he'd be unassailable first choice too.

That doesn't get over the fact that Marshall isn't going to get significant gametime (HC) with Ulster which is a drawback. By the time the 6Ns comes around again he is going to be collecting splinters on the Ulster bench.

Perhaps Marshall should move club to get more gametime if he wants to be an international.

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

Seriously, don't even joke about it!

I hope to God Paulie is fit. It's bad enough losing Healy, Best, SOB, Drico and Kearney. Any word on Fez?

Ferris is in the Ulster squad for Friday night along with Paul Marshall and Gilroy.

decisions

In what club in Ireland would he be a regular starter?

irishbucsfan

decisions wrote: »

In what club in Ireland would he be a regular starter?

Munster

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

That doesn't get over the fact that Marshall isn't going to get significant gametime (HC) with Ulster which is a drawback. By the time the 6Ns comes around again he is going to be collecting splinters on the Ulster bench.

Perhaps Marshall should move club to get more gametime if he wants to be an international.

DOC only started 2 HEC games last season to Ryans 6 and yet was still the first choice lock for the 6 Nations.

We've seen this a few times in this thread. Conor Murray is a physical scrum-half and so should be selected, but Andrew Trimbles physicality is not a reason to consider him. DOC was first choice for Ireland while "collecting splinters" at his province last season, but Marshall can't be selected because he's not first choice at his province. ROG should be on the bench because of experience but we should be selecting our wingers and centres based on form and not experience.

Maybe we should approach this from another angle. When was the last time a form Munster player was ignored by Declan Kidney?

ray jay

totallegend wrote: »

Sure why not go the whole hog and make Bent captain? I think he's earned it

Well we'll need him if Healy can't play so why not! Seriously though, it'll be pretty staggering if he gets an Ireland cap before playing for Leinster.

JRant

jm08 wrote: »

And whats wrong with that assessment? He was bringing Reddan as well, so there was a variety. Should he have brought Stringer instead?



I thought Murray did ok in the 2nd test (like everyone else). He scored a try. Marshall was dropped in Ulster for a NIQ player to play against Glasgow even though he won a MOTM the previous week. He is not a starter for Ulster. Reddan & Boss (when fit) rotate. Murray & Marmion are the only two starters at the moment.



Considering what a close game it was, it wouldn't have been fair to throw him into that for his first Test. I think something similar happened to Brian O'Driscoll for his first cap.

What are you basing the better form on - no of trys scored perchance?

I'm sure Dave Kearney could have, but Leinster were probably anxious to get him back as soon as possible. He wasn't making the starting team for the Leinster big games. I see he got 2 minutes against the Ospreys in the Rabo Final, so would not have been available for the Ba-baas game.

He should of had Boss at the time instead to be honest.
What happened was a relative nobody came from nowhere to start our most important game in 4 years!! Do you not see where I'm coming from at all?

Why pick D Kearney then, it was always going to be a tight game. If he didn't trust him he shouldn't of picked him.
Sure didn't Zebo get his first start against NZ, doesn't seem to be fair on the young lad either. Unless you look at the selections from DK's point of view.

I'm basing better form on the actual games played by these individuals.
Gilroy was fantastic last season but got overlooked.
Madigan was the best young player in the country last year but got overlooked.
O'Brien was tearing up trees but couldn't get picked for a long time.
The list is far to long to be a coincidence if you ask me.
Then looking at others we see after a handful of pro games them being parachuted into the team.
Where is the consistancy?

Kearney was told he was surplus to requirements prior to the tour so had his op.
Yet SOB was in desperate need for a hip op and yet played all 3 games.
Didn't Gilroy have a stormer in the BaBa's game? Yet he still wasn't picked.

CIARAN_BOYLE

ray jay wrote: »

Well we'll need him if Healy can't play so why not! Seriously though, it'll be pretty staggering if he gets an Ireland cap before playing for Leinster.

ah sure it will be grand, did not work out ok for Brian O'Driscoll :D:D;)

irishbucsfan

I was just trying to think... What would be the team that inspires the most disgust from boardsies?

I came up with:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Strauss
3. Bent
4. DOC
5. McCarthy
6. Ryan
7. POM (captain)
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. O'Gara
11. Earls
12. Sexton
13. McFadden
14. Zebo
15. Bowe

That's if Fez and POC also get ruled out of course!

leftleg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I was just trying to think... What would be the team that inspires the most disgust from boardsies?

I came up with:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Strauss
3. Bent
4. DOC
5. McCarthy
6. Ryan
7. POM (captain)
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. O'Gara
11. Earls
12. Sexton
13. McFadden
14. Zebo
15. Bowe

That's if Fez and POC also get ruled out of course!

Did you get that squad from thornley after that moonlit dinner he had with Declan.

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I was just trying to think... What would be the team that inspires the most disgust from boardsies?

Scary thing is that that team is 100% from the squad and sounds like something Kidney would do

JRant

Fireball07 wrote: »

I think selecting McFadden at 13 would be a bad idea. McFadden has a lot of good points, but his skillset isn't exactly suited to that position. His defence isn't great and he can struggle to bring the outside backs into play. Much better at 12, and is better on the wing too.

Cave is a much better 13.

I agree, McFadden looked really good on the wing at the weekend. He had one great break from a lovely reverse pop pass around the fringe from Reddan. Don't think he has the hands for a top 13, takes the ball into contact far to often.

ed7890

The whole Kidney/Munster bias thing is getting out of hand.

Last year, a few Munster players got called up to the squad, page and pages on the forum were spent talking about the Munster bias.

This year, some good Ulster players get called up to the squad. Pages and pages on the forum are being spent talking about the Munster bias in last years call ups.

Oh ya, and some pages talking about how Kilcoyne got called up ahead of of Buckley.

JRant

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I was just trying to think... What would be the team that inspires the most disgust from boardsies?

I came up with:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Strauss
3. Bent
4. DOC
5. McCarthy
6. Ryan
7. POM (captain)
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. O'Gara
11. Earls
12. Sexton
13. McFadden
14. Zebo
15. Bowe

That's if Fez and POC also get ruled out of course!

Jones in at 15 and you'd have a real winner there.

Personally I'd love to see McCarthy starting though.

totallegend

jm08 wrote: »

That doesn't get over the fact that Marshall isn't going to get significant gametime (HC) with Ulster which is a drawback. By the time the 6Ns comes around again he is going to be collecting splinters on the Ulster bench.

Perhaps Marshall should move club to get more gametime if he wants to be an international.

Well your mate Murray had never played HC before the 2011 rwc and by your account he nearly won the tournament single-handed. Funny how HC experience was less relevant there.

Marshall should stay where he is. Soon enough we'll have a new coach who will hopefully pick his team based on crazy notions like ability rather than the much more reliable red jersey criteria.

jamiedav2011

Here's the ROG touches v. Aus video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ciQoPK7pK0c

jm08

JRant wrote: »

He should of had Boss at the time instead to be honest.
What happened was a relative nobody came from nowhere to start our most important game in 4 years!! Do you not see where I'm coming from at all?

I do. I see you demand that Kidney goes for youth and when he does, you get annoyed!

Why pick D Kearney then, it was always going to be a tight game. If he didn't trust him he shouldn't of picked him.
Sure didn't Zebo get his first start against NZ, doesn't seem to be fair on the young lad either. Unless you look at the selections from DK's point of view.

Kearney was picked because he was the next available option at the time with BOD & Earls out.

I'm basing better form on the actual games played by these individuals.
Gilroy was fantastic last season but got overlooked.
Madigan was the best young player in the country last year but got overlooked.
O'Brien was tearing up trees but couldn't get picked for a long time.
The list is far to long to be a coincidence if you ask me.
Then looking at others we see after a handful of pro games them being parachuted into the team.
Where is the consistancy?

Simon Zebo was the form young player last year (along with Kearney) even if more work had to be done on his game (which he clearly has worked on). But he was scoring trys for fun (unlike the other two).

Kearney was told he was surplus to requirements prior to the tour so had his op.

Link?

Yet SOB was in desperate need for a hip op and yet played all 3 games.

Thats because of the player injuries in the backrow (and POC missing as well). Not the first time that players went on tour and came home to an op.

Didn't Gilroy have a stormer in the BaBa's game? Yet he still wasn't picked.

I didn't see the Ba-Baas game so can't comment as to whether he had a 'stormer'.

Considering that Ulster were bringing in a new coach & Tommy Bowe & Andrew Trimble was going to be out for the start of the season, there was every chance that Ulster wanted him to remain at home so that he got a good pre-season (like they withdrew Jackson from the U20s world cup for those reasons).

CIARAN_BOYLE

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Here's the ROG touches v. Aus video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ciQoPK7pK0c

good touchfinder
bad out on the full
penalty that made 25 meters
three kicks directly to an unpressurised aussie back three

add to that a few easy passes and a couple of penalties and you have the sum of ROGs contribution

errlloyd

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

good touchfinder
bad out on the full
penalty that made 25 meters
three kicks directly to an unpressurised aussie back three

add to that a few easy passes and a couple of penalties and you have the sum of ROGs contribution

Also like the video only shows him in attack, most of us agree he's a liability in defense.

bilston

In conclusion this is how I see it...

15 Earls
14 Bowe
13 Cave
12 D'Arcy
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
1 Healy
2 Strauss
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 O'Connell
6 Ferris
7 Henry
8 Heaslip

Bench
Cronin, Court, Fitzpatrick, O'Callaghan, O'Mahony, Murray, O'Gara, Trimble

If Ferris is out then POM to start and Henderson to the bench. If ROG doesn't make it then Jackson to the bench.

Podge_irl

That what you want or what you expect?

I struggle to see Kidney dropping Murray (however deserved).

jm08

totallegend wrote: »

Well your mate Murray had never played HC before the 2011 rwc and by your account he nearly won the tournament single-handed. Funny how HC experience was less relevant there.

Marshall should stay where he is. Soon enough we'll have a new coach who will hopefully pick his team based on crazy notions like ability rather than the much more reliable red jersey criteria.

Murray was still the starting scrumhalf (including a win over the Ospreys the week before Munster beat Leinster in Thomond Park).

There is no doubt that Marshall was excellent against Castres - but that was starting every game coming up to it. He is now back on the bench for Ulster and can look forward to 10 minute cameos from the bench.

Marshall was not used in the Munster or Leinster HCup games and only against Edinburgh when they were well beaten, so Murray has as much experience at that level as Marshall has.

JRant

jm08 wrote: »

I do. I see you demand that Kidney goes for youth and when he does, you get annoyed!



Kearney was picked because he was the next available option at the time with BOD & Earls out.




Simon Zebo was the form young player last year (along with Kearney) even if more work had to be done on his game (which he clearly has worked on). But he was scoring trys for fun (unlike the other two).



Link?



Thats because of the player injuries in the backrow (and POC missing as well). Not the first time that players went on tour and came home to an op.



I didn't see the Ba-Baas game so can't comment as to whether he had a 'stormer'.

Considering that Ulster were bringing in a new coach & Tommy Bowe & Andrew Trimble was going to be out for the start of the season, there was every chance that Ulster wanted him to remain at home so that he got a good pre-season (like they withdrew Jackson from the U20s world cup for those reasons).

You really don't if thats what your seeing. I'll spell it out as plain as I can, consistency consistency consistency.
Of which we have absolutely zero from our head coach.
Why Murray but not Marshall?
Why ROG but not Madigan?
Why POM but not Henry?

It has nothing to do with giving youth a go. If they're good enough, they're old enough. It has to do with how some players get the nod on the back of very little but others are just ignored despite playing better than their opposition within the squad.

Well if he had wanted D Kearney he would of brought him, just like he did with SOB. Also SOB went over needing the op, big difference to coming home and needing it.

What Ulster do with there players rests solely on what the IRFU tell them to do. If DK wanted Gilroy on the plane it would have happened. The fact is however that DK had a 'raging semi' to get Zebo, Murray and POM into the team asap, so thats what happened. The same rules just don't apply to players from the rest of the country.

Fireball07

bilston wrote: »

In conclusion this is how I see it...

15 Earls
14 Bowe
13 Cave
12 D'Arcy
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
1 Healy
2 Strauss
3 Ross
4 Ryan
5 O'Connell
6 Ferris
7 Henry
8 Heaslip

Bench
Cronin, Court, Fitzpatrick, O'Callaghan, O'Mahony, Murray, O'Gara, Trimble

If Ferris is out then POM to start and Henderson to the bench. If ROG doesn't make it then Jackson to the bench.

Good team, especially considering all the injuries.

If Healy is out, Court moves up and Kilcoyne takes the bench spot.

And as you say about Ferris.

Ideally, Jackson would be ahead of ROG already.

Don't think there's much in the calls at SH or for the 2nd row bench spot.

totallegend

jm08 wrote: »

Murray was still the starting scrumhalf (including a win over the Ospreys the week before Munster beat Leinster in Thomond Park).

There is no doubt that Marshall was excellent against Castres - but that was starting every game coming up to it. He is now back on the bench for Ulster and can look forward to 10 minute cameos from the bench.

Marshall was not used in the Munster or Leinster HCup games and only against Edinburgh when they were well beaten, so Murray has as much experience at that level as Marshall has.

You're a gas man. You can't follow basic logic to its rational conclusion.

I'm out.

jm08

JRant wrote: »

You really don't if thats what your seeing. I'll spell it out as plain as I can, consistency consistency consistency.
Of which we have absolutely zero from our head coach.

Everything isn't a black and white situation.

Why Murray but not Marshall?

Different kinds of players. It should be why Reddan and not Marshall. Or why Murray & not Boss or O'Leary.

Why ROG but not Madigan?

100+ caps. More use to have Madigan getting gametime than warming the bench. Lets face it, Sexton is going to play most of SA & Arg. games.

Why POM but not Henry?

Is it not why SOB & not Henry? POM gets picked because he can cover all positions in the backrow.

It has nothing to do with giving youth a go. If they're good enough, they're old enough. It has to do with how some players get the nod on the back of very little but others are just ignored despite playing better than their opposition within the squad.

Marshall isn't young and hasn't done a lot, yet you think he should be ahead of Murray on very cameos in a dominant Ulster team.

Well if he had wanted D Kearney he would of brought him, just like he did with SOB. Also SOB went over needing the op, big difference to coming home and needing it.

There were not limited places. Kidney wanted to bring Madigan but wasn't allowed. Kearney needed an op - why go out of your way to drag a peripheral player when he wasn't going to get much gametime anyway.

What Ulster do with there players rests solely on what the IRFU tell them to do. If DK wanted Gilroy on the plane it would have happened. The fact is however that DK had a 'raging semi' to get Zebo, Murray and POM into the team asap, so thats what happened. The same rules just don't apply to players from the rest of the country.

Apparently, Kidney wanted Madigan on the plane and he wasn't allowed. Ulster requested that Paddy Jackson stayed at home - there is every chance they asked the same of Gilroy because of the number of players they were going to be missing at the start of the season.

For the record - Denis Leamy went on a tour to the SH needing a shoulder operation and was a standout player (like SOB was on this one). Paul O'Connell came home to a back operation after the 2007 world cup and Brian O'Driscoll came home to an op after the last world cup. Players do play needing operations.

Quint2010

If the next Irish coach is not from Ireland these threads will be empty..

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

Murray was still the starting scrumhalf (including a win over the Ospreys the week before Munster beat Leinster in Thomond Park).

There is no doubt that Marshall was excellent against Castres - but that was starting every game coming up to it. He is now back on the bench for Ulster and can look forward to 10 minute cameos from the bench.

Marshall was not used in the Munster or Leinster HCup games and only against Edinburgh when they were well beaten, so Murray has as much experience at that level as Marshall has.

So same levels of experience yet one was starting in the RWC a year ago and the other isn't included in the squad despite showing better form this season. You're making the case for Marshall yourself here.

JRant

jm08 wrote: »

Everything isn't a black and white situation.

Different kinds of players. It should be why Reddan and not Marshall. Or why Murray & not Boss or O'Leary.


100+ caps. More use to have Madigan getting gametime than warming the bench. Lets face it, Sexton is going to play most of SA & Arg. games.


Is it not why SOB & not Henry? POM gets picked because he can cover all positions in the backrow.



Marshall isn't young and hasn't done a lot, yet you think he should be ahead of Murray on very cameos in a dominant Ulster team.



There were not limited places. Kidney wanted to bring Madigan but wasn't allowed. Kearney needed an op - why go out of your way to drag a peripheral player when he wasn't going to get much gametime anyway.



Apparently, Kidney wanted Madigan on the plane and he wasn't allowed. Ulster requested that Paddy Jackson stayed at home - there is every chance they asked the same of Gilroy because of the number of players they were going to be missing at the start of the season.

For the record - Denis Leamy went on a tour to the SH needing a shoulder operation and was a standout player (like SOB was on this one). Paul O'Connell came home to a back operation after the 2007 world cup and Brian O'Driscoll came home to an op after the last world cup. Players do play needing operations.

Never said it was black or white, more red or nothing.
There is no consistency in what your saying. Murray plays well so he's a class act, Marshall plays well and its because he has a kushty time behind a dominant pack!!!!! Also O'Leary? Are you for real or just taking the Michael now.

Yeah worked out well for Leamy in the long run!! Stupid to risk a players career for a summer tour, a WC is a different kettle of fish.

POM may provide some cover across the backrow but has yet to excel in one position as others had to do to get called up.

ROG is a busted flush at this stage and i'm sorry i brought it up. We'll just have to wait for Deccie to go before he hangs up the "above international standard" boots.

The IRFU are the paymasters so they call the tune, the provinces may ask for a player to be left behind but if DK wanted them there they would have travelled.