Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Swiwi

goreyguy wrote: »

fine with Bent being signed, not fine with him being in the Ireland squad straight away without even playing a game for Leinster.

I feel like my countryman is really being set up for a big fall. One minute struggling to make the Hurricanes match-day 22, add in a few decent games for Taranaki in a club-level competition, and the next minute Declan has him in the Irish squad. I doubt he can believe it himself. I hope he makes some sort of go of it, because he's had a charmed ride to international rugby.

Tox56

Benny Cake wrote: »

I don't see anything in Heaslips game/persona to suggest he has the necessary qualities to be an Irish captain.

Great player, just not a leader of men ala POC or BOD...

Would have thought he has a lot of the qualities necessary to be captain, high workrate, consistent performer, senior player, big talker, seems like a smart guy too. His Leinster record as captain could well reflect that, although until he gets the job regularly we won't know for sure.

jamiedav2011

Swiwi wrote: »

I feel like my countryman is really being set up for a big fall. One minute struggling to make the Hurricanes match-day 22, add in a few decent games for Taranaki in a club-level competition, and the next minute Declan has him in the Irish squad. I doubt he can believe it himself. I hope he makes some sort of go of it, because he's had a charmed ride to international rugby.

In fairness, he looked good for Hurricanes when he did play, and only wasn't playing because of an issue with the coach it seems. He's realistically the best we have at the moment.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

Obviously but it's generally a gauge of where someone's opinions are. Unusual to be supportive of one thing but to be the complete opposite on another that, whilst different, is in the same ballpark.

Alan Quinlan was very much the same in the Times today and I'd agree with both.

Strauss has proved both his ability and commitment, Bent has proved that he has an Irish passport.

jamiedav2011

Teferi wrote: »

Why isn't he great captain material?

Wrong coloured scrum cap, moustache makes him look like Freddie Mercury, too metro.

They're all reasons right Cpt?

Btw, take a look at MF.com for real good old fashioned bitterness and laughable attitudes towards a three times HEC winner and IRB Player of the Year nominee.

Couldn't see past Heaslip as Captain if we're down BOD, POC and Best.

No idea how anyone would say he's not captain material, after captaining Leinster how many times, being a recognized senior player in both the Irish and Leinster setup and being Leinster's recognised Pack Leader in Cullen's absence last year too.

jamiedav2011

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Btw, take a look at MF.com for real good old fashioned bitterness and laughable attitudes towards a three times HEC winner and IRB Player of the Year nominee.

Don't do this. Basing your opinion of people on zealots would make you think that 96% of Ireland behave like these people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrz5k0jWdU

jamiedav2011

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't do this. Basing your opinion of people on zealots would make you think that 96% of Ireland behave like these people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrz5k0jWdU

It's real 'he fixhed the road' type stuff at times!

Teferi

Teferi wrote: »

Why isn't he great captain material?

In case anyone is wondering, I think Blackbeard is talking rubbish. You can't look past Heaslip.

I want to see if the Cpt can put together a logical argument as to why Heaslip shouldn't be captain.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

Healy, Strauss, Ross, Ryan, POC, Ferris, POM, Heaslip;
Reddan, Sexton, Zebo, McFadden, Earls, Bowe, Jones

(IIRC)

6 Munster players and 2 from Ulster...nothing like a reflection of form...

Benny Cake

Teferi wrote: »

In case anyone is wondering, I think Blackbeard is talking rubbish. You can't look past Heaslip.

I want to see if the Cpt can put together a logical argument as to why Heaslip shouldn't be captain.

Personally, I don't see the issue in questioning Heaslips credentials with regard to captaincy. I've never seen him display any serious mettle on the pitch. I can't recall a single occasion when he grabbed a game by the scruff of the neck when it was in the balance and provide an example for his teammates....
POC and BOD are both born leaders. Jamie is not.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Teferi wrote: »

In case anyone is wondering, I think Blackbeard is talking rubbish. You can't look past Heaslip.

I want to see if the Cpt can put together a logical argument as to why Heaslip shouldn't be captain.

Did I say that Heaslip shouldn't be captain? I clearly stated he is the best option we have available.

Its amazing the amount of responses a post can garner from people who didn't (couldn't?) read it...

Scioch

Yeah I dont see any question in it tbf, has to be Heaslip. Has captained Leinster a fare few times, has a good cool head on his shoulders, great workrate and has a stable spot on the team.

jamiedav2011

Benny Cake wrote: »

Personally, I don't see the issue in questioning Heaslips credentials with regard to captaincy. I've never seen him display any serious mettle on the pitch. I can't recall a single occasion when he grabbed a game by the scruff of the neck when it was in the balance and provide an example for his teammates....
POC and BOD are both born leaders. Jamie is not.

You've never seen a guy who has won 3 HECs as a starting 8, who has played 3 Lions tests, who has never lost as a captain, who is undisputedly the best Irish number 8 currently, and definitely top 5 in the world, possible top three depending on your thoughts, who has won MOTM in a HEC semi final described as test match level, show any serious mettle on the pitch eh?

Tell me, who would you have as captain if POC is out?!

Quint2010

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Did I say that Heaslip shouldn't be captain? I clearly stated he is the best option we have available.

Its amazing the amount of responses a post can garner from people who didn't (couldn't?) read it...

Not great captain material but still SHOULD be captain?..:rolleyes:

danthefan

Benny Cake wrote: »

I don't see anything in Heaslips game/persona to suggest he has the necessary qualities to be an Irish captain.

Great player, just not a leader of men ala POC or BOD...

I'd give up on the amatuer psychology if I were you.

jm08

totallegend wrote: »

See that doesn't explain why Hurley is called up. Why do you post these random statements that add nothing?

This might explain it better. Just about two teams left for training.

1. Cian Healy - Injury ?
1. Tom Court
1. David Kilcoyne

2. Rory Best - OUT
2. Richardt Strauss
2. Sean Cronin

3. Mike Ross
3. Michael Bent - back with Leinster
3. Declan Fitzpatrick - Injury?

4. Donncha O'Callaghan
4. Donnacha Ryan
4. Dan Tuohy
5. Mike McCarthy
5. Paul O'Connell - not training

6. Stephen Ferris - back with Ulster
6. Iain Henderson
6. Kevin McLaughlin
6. John Muldoon
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
8. Peter O'Mahony

9. Conor Murray
9. Paul Marshall - back with Ulster
9. Eoin Reddan

11. Simon Zebo
11. Craig Gilroy - back with Ulster
11. Fergus McFadden

10. Paddy Jackson
10. Jonathan Sexton
10. Ronan O'Gara - back with Munster

12. Gordon D'Arcy
12. Luke Marshall

13. Brian O'Driscoll - Out
13. Darren Cave
13. Keith Earls

14. Tommy Bowe
14. Tiernan O'Halloran

14. Andrew Trimble
15. Denis Hurley

Cpt_Blackbeard

Quint2010 wrote: »

Not great captain material but still SHOULD be captain?..:rolleyes:

I'm sure you're aware that there is a distinction between good and great. You are also probably aware that someone doesn't have to be great at something in order to make them the best available.

I could be putting too much faith in you though.

jm08

Scioch wrote: »

Yeah I dont see any question in it tbf, has to be Heaslip. Has captained Leinster a fare few times, has a good cool head on his shoulders, great workrate and has a stable spot on the team.

Cool head .... em Red Card for kneeing Richie McCaw - think it was Cian Healy who stopped him doing more damage.

Benny Cake

danthefan wrote: »

I'd give up on the amatuer psychology if I were you.

Cheers Dan. You're as dependable as the weather....

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Cool head .... em Red Card for kneeing Richie McCaw - think it was Cian Healy who stopped him doing more damage.

Good thing POC has never had a red card for violent conduct.. and he's one of the best captains around. Martin Johnson?

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

Cool head .... em Red Card for kneeing Richie McCaw - think it was Cian Healy who stopped him doing more damage.

Does a moment of red make you automatically a bad captain? What do you think?

Quint2010

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'm sure you're aware that there is a distinction between good and great. You are also probably aware that someone doesn't have to be great at something in order to make them the best available.

I could be putting too much faith in you though.

I just don't understand the logic of endorsing someone for captain if you don't think they are "great captain material". Does not make sense.

GerM

Benny Cake wrote: »

Personally, I don't see the issue in questioning Heaslips credentials with regard to captaincy. I've never seen him display any serious mettle on the pitch. I can't recall a single occasion when he grabbed a game by the scruff of the neck when it was in the balance and provide an example for his teammates....

Not being smart, Benny, but you must have missed a glut of games from Heaslip then. From his 50 caps, I'd say he has 8 or 9 MOTM awards.

In 2010 he completely took the game to Clermont in the quarter final and was the difference between winning and losing. He was the one guy away to Toulouse who didn't take a step backwards.

Even in the past few weeks, he has been the best Leinster player making big plays throughout the games. In the final minutes of the Scarlets game, when proceedings were in the balance, it the microphones clearly picked up Heaslip making the calls for the scrum, overruling Boss and driving the pack on at a crucial point. Everyone listened.

The bloke played with a broken hand against NZ in the second test and was top tackler on the field. I don't think he's the be all and end all as a captain but I don't know how anyone who could question his mettle. The guy is a competitor, through and through.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Cool head .... em Red Card for kneeing Richie McCaw - think it was Cian Healy who stopped him doing more damage.

I suppose you think John Hayes is a tyrant for his stamping on Healy too?

It was the exception that proved the rule...

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

Good thing POC has never had a red card for violent conduct.. and he's one of the best captains around. Martin Johnson?

I think it was really stupid to knee Richie McCaw bearing in mind that Ireland were on the ABs tryline.

He didn't display a cool head.

Fireball07

Quint2010 wrote: »

I just don't understand the logic of endorsing someone for captain if you don't think they are "great captain material". Does not make sense.

I wouldn't call Heaslip a great captain either tbh.

POC and BOD are great captains, they are inspirational players, real leaders on the field.

Heaslip is good but I don't think he has that aura yet. Maybe he'll get there...he's still the most obvious leader in the squad with BOD, POC and Best out.

Not all good players are great captain material.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose you think John Hayes is a tyrant for his stamping on Healy too?

It was the exception that proved the rule...

I don't think John Hayes was captain material.

Benny Cake

GerM wrote: »

Not being smart, Benny, but you must have missed a glut of games from Heaslip then. From his 50 caps, I'd say he has 8 or 9 MOTM awards.

In 2010 he completely took the game to Clermont in the quarter final and was the difference between winning and losing. He was the one guy away to Toulouse who didn't take a step backwards.

Even in the past few weeks, he has been the best Leinster player making big plays throughout the games. In the final minutes of the Scarlets game, when proceedings were in the balance, it the microphones clearly picked up Heaslip making the calls for the scrum, overruling Boss and driving the pack on at a crucial point. Everyone listened.

The bloke played with a broken hand against NZ in the second test and was top tackler on the field. I don't think he's the be all and end all as a captain but I don't know how anyone who could question his mettle. The guy is a competitor, through and through.

Good performances do not a captain make. O'Gara is a case in point. He has countless MOTM awards, a grand slam, 120+ Irish Caps, 220+ Munster caps, Lions tours, widely acclaimed as one of the greatest European players of the Heineken cup era etc, etc.
He has single handedly dragged Munster to victory with numerous last minutes penalties/drop goals BUT he is a terrible captain.
There are certain intangibles when it comes to leadership. I don't dispute Heaslips greatness as a player, I simply don't rate him as a captain.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

I think it was really stupid to knee Richie McCaw bearing in mind that Ireland were on the ABs tryline.

He didn't display a cool head.

And it wasn't the greatest idea for POC to get sent off with 10 mins to go in a crucial H Cup game, but I still think he's a great captain with a "cool head"