Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

irishbucsfan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

it's an intriguing selection but it won't be worth a damn if we employ the usual kidney game plan

In fairness there is not a usual Kidney game plan.

We vary how we approach games, but it rarely works.

Hopefully that has changed.

tolosenc

Fishooks12 wrote: »

He didn't really. Earls has been consistently good all season while BOD has been a little ordinary by his own high sandars

The Cardiff defense that night was non existent so a 15 minute spell isn't much to shout about. His huge tackle in the dying minutes of the Exeter game, where he was poor overall, displays just why I'd pick BOD over Earls even allowing for the better form of the munster-man. It's a lot easier too when they can both be accommodated in a backline too

Earls played 3 games at centre this season.

Was average at best against Leinster and Ospreys. Didn't see the Dragons game myself, but unless he put in a try saving tackle, or made a handful of line breaks resulting in a couple of tries, then BOD has been better "all season".

Tox56

Fireball07 wrote: »

There's a difference between defending him and pointing out that not every thing he does is wrong.


I like this team. I'm looking forward to the game...this fifteen is making me reasonably optimistic of victory. In the short-term, that's as much as anyone can expect.

Although the latter is much more common, there are still a few on here (and on other forums) who have been defending him for the last 6-12 months or longer, and continue to do so (jm08 being a prime example). I just cannot understand how, after everything that's happened, they can honestly believe some of the stuff they come out with.

irishbucsfan

Earls definitely had one excellent game.

I didn't see it, I'm just relying on reactions in the match thread.

Fireball07

tolosenc wrote: »

Earls played 3 games at centre this season.

Was average at best against Leinster and Ospreys. Didn't see the Dragons game myself, but unless he put in a try saving tackle, or made a handful of line breaks resulting in a couple of tries, then BOD has been better "all season".

He put in a try-saving tackle against Ospreys, I think

Just saying.

Scioch

I just dont understand Kidney. Rather than give Cave a chance in a position he's doing well in, he sticks Zebo out of position and hopes for the best. Whatever about him possibly suiting the role, we know without a shadow of a doubt Cave suits the 13 role. We know Earls can cover 15 and we know Zebo is doing well on the wing.

I hope he does well at 15 but if Zebo doesnt come out of it looking good whats the point ? What have we learnt ? We now know the club winger isnt upto covering fb at international level against a top 3 team ? It benefits nobody. He could have started Earls at 15, Zebo at 11 (or off the bench) and Cave at 13, have a more sturdy side, young guys getting a great chance in positions they regularly play in. Why gamble when the opportunity is there to develop ?

Fireball07

Tox56 wrote: »

Although the latter is much more common, there are still a few on here (and on other forums) who have been defending him for the last 6-12 months or longer, and continue to do so (jm08 being a prime example). I just cannot understand how, after everything that's happened, they can honestly believe some of the stuff they come out with.

You're right there. But in response to that, some posters who should know better have gone a bit overboard in criticising him, bringing up stupid points. Sometimes it's in response in things, fair enough, but it makes the threads such a pain to read.


Anywaaaaaay, in future I don't think one coach should be in charge for more than one World Cup tbh. Freshening things up every few years is a good idea.

And I was just wondering something, does anyone know are the IRFU held accountable to anyone? Is there anyone that can examine what they are doing in the echelons of the IRFU and then go "hey, you're not doing your job properly, cop on"? Or something along those lines...

Mr.Opti

Scioch wrote: »

I just dont understand Kidney. Rather than give Cave a chance in a position he's doing well in, he sticks Zebo out of position and hopes for the best.

Cave doesn't start because he is number 3 outside center. Earls is the no.2 and when does he ever get to play there internationally? Only when BOD is injured. It makes a lot of sense to start Earls at 13 and let him get international experience playing there

Podge_irl

Fireball07 wrote: »

And I was just wondering something, does anyone know are the IRFU held accountable to anyone?

By all accounts a few blazers with absolutely no experience of the professional game.

Scioch

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Cave doesn't start because he is number 3 outside center. Earls is the no.2 and when does he ever get to play there internationally? Only when BOD is injured. It makes a lot of sense to start Earls at 13 and let him get international experience playing there

BOD missed the 6 Nations. Earls got plenty of experience then, Cave has zero. It makes a lot more sense to start Cave with Earls at 15.

Hype710

Any word on the lock combination? 4 lads with fairly equal claims for the jerseys. Will have to feel for whoever is left out of the 23 as it is far from an easy decision.

Fireball07

Hype710 wrote: »

Any word on the lock combination? 4 lads with fairly equal claims for the jerseys. Will have to feel for whoever is left out of the 23 as it is far from an easy decision.

Well in the original team posted, it was Ryan + POC with McCarthy on the bench.

Meaning DOC and Tuohy missed out.

If POC is injured, I guess McCarthy will step up? Not sure about that though or about who'd be on the bench.

Podge_irl

Lock combination is certainly the most interesting question (assuming the Zebo to 15 thing is definite).

I think Tuohy/Ryan is the best combination - Tuohy offers a better carrying presence then POC and brings an aggressiveness in the ruck. DOC has picked up his game this season and McCarthy is a very solid option. I wouldn't actually object to DOC given his improvements this season but I think he and Tuohy are 50/50 and Tuohy is the younger option.

Tuhoy/Ryan were the pairing in NZ - I don't think anyone has done anything to suggest that should be changed.

irishbucsfan

Scioch wrote: »

BOD missed the 6 Nations. Earls got plenty of experience then, Cave has zero. It makes a lot more sense to start Cave with Earls at 15.

This is a game we want to win. The staff need to start the team that gives us the best chance to win.

For me that's almost exactly what has been predicted (impossible to have an opinion on Zebo at 15 until we see him there). Hopefully we'll see a performance a la Kearney 2008.

liamo121

RoundBox11 wrote: »

This is really random/irrelevant/off-topic, and i know the jerseys don't necessarily mean anything, but anyone know who it is at 15 here?

I'd say its Chris Henry

irishbucsfan

I really don't think Tuohy is the best option for this game. I think he's in the top 2 locks available, but I'd think McCarthy would be a better option for this game with Tuohy on the bench. It all depends on how we're going to play the game though.

Hype710

The thing about Ryan though is that he had such a long preseason, which was followed by an extended period at 6. He has the least amount of 'form' at lock this season in that sense. I'd still pick him but it will be hard to ignore the cases of DOC and McCarthy who have had plenty more games and are both playing very well.

Scioch

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is a game we want to win. The staff need to start the team that gives us the best chance to win.

For me that's almost exactly what has been predicted (impossible to have an opinion on Zebo at 15 until we see him there). Hopefully we'll see a performance a la Kearney 2008.

Zebo at 15 contradicts that though. Zebo isnt our best FB, Earls is. Cave is a better centre than Zebo is a FB. We know this as Zebo isnt a FB.

I dont understand why Kidney is prepared to gamble on Zebo at FB and not Cave who has shown he's ready to progress at 13.

Podge_irl

I'm all for having Cave at 13, but Earls is not a massively more inexperienced fullback than Earls. How often has he actually played there for Munster or Ireland? His only cap was against England where he fielded 0 high balls and made 0 tackles. Its also a more long term option - Earls is more likely going to end up at 13 post BOD while he is never going to get ahead of a fit Kearney.

ormond lad

Thornleys team in tomorrows paper. Doesnt have a definate 23
He doesnt have anyone in the row beside D. Ryan and has a choice of loosehead prop and backrow replacement
IRELAND (possible): Zebo; Bowe, Earls, D’Arcy, Trimble; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Strauss, Ross, McCarthy or Tuohy or O’Callaghan, Ryan, O’Mahony, Henry, Heaslip (capt). Replacements: Cronin, Court or Kilcoyne, Bent, McCarthy or Tuohy, McLaughlin/Henderson, Reddan, O’Gara, McFadden

Hopefully its Tuohy starting with Ryan and Kilcoyne, McCarthy and McLaughlin on the bench

jm08

Scioch wrote: »

Zebo at 15 contradicts that though. Zebo isnt our best FB, Earls is. Cave is a better centre than Zebo is a FB. We know this as Zebo isnt a FB.

I dont understand why Kidney is prepared to gamble on Zebo at FB and not Cave who has shown he's ready to progress at 13.

I think Cave lacks pace to be an international 13. Earls left him flatfooted that resulted in a try against Ulster when Munster played Ulster in Ravenhill.

Cave was tried at 13 against the Babaas before the NZ tour and of course he got a 10 minute cameo against NZ that didn't go great for him.

In saying that, he will probably make the bench so if Zebo is having a horror show, he can be brought on and Earls moved to fullback.

Here is earls try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkW4yZcwVwE

Swan Curry

jm08 wrote: »

I think Cave lacks pace to be an international 13. Earls left him flatfooted that resulted in a try against Ulster when Munster played Ulster in Ravenhill.

Cave was tried at 13 against the Babaas before the NZ tour and of course he got a 10 minute cameo against NZ that didn't go great for him.

In saying that, he will probably make the bench so if Zebo is having a horror show, he can be brought on and Earls moved to fullback.

Here is earls try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkW4yZcwVwE

This is emblematic of Kidney's utter incompetence in player selection.His 10 minute cameo against the ABs is enough reason for Kidney and his loyal supporters to discard him.

Also,I'm listening back to Rugby on Off the Ball and Gerry Thornley just said our only two options at 15 are Zebo and Hurley.How this man is paid to write about rugby is beyond me.

Beery Eyed

jm08 wrote: »

I think Cave lacks pace to be an international 13. Earls left him flatfooted that resulted in a try against Ulster when Munster played Ulster in Ravenhill.

Cave was tried at 13 against the Babaas before the NZ tour and of course he got a 10 minute cameo against NZ that didn't go great for him.

In saying that, he will probably make the bench so if Zebo is having a horror show, he can be brought on and Earls moved to fullback.

Here is earls try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkW4yZcwVwE

Am I missing something in this clip? Where is the part that Earls leaves Cave flatfooted?

Anyway, even so, one example wouldn't really be fair. You could just as easily replay O'Driscoll's error from a couple of weeks ago against Scarlets & say he's a useless defender now, which obviously isn't the case. Players make mistakes & sometimes they get caught out, but overall Cave has been a very good defender for a number of years.

jm08

Swan Curry wrote: »

This is emblematic of Kidney's utter incompetence in player selection.His 10 minute cameo against the ABs is enough reason for Kidney and his loyal supporters to discard him.

Also,I'm listening back to Rugby on Off the Ball and Gerry Thornley just said our only two options at 15 are Zebo and Hurley.How this man is paid to write about rugby is beyond me.

Who is discarding him on 10 minutes against the ABs? He has toured Canada & the US with Ireland and got a full game against the Babaas, which is 3 starts at centre. Earls has a couple more caps than he does in that position, but crucially Earls has been able to build his international experience on the wing which is a less demanding position.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

I think Cave lacks pace to be an international 13.

Cause BOD is an Olympic class 100m sprinter.

Swan Curry

jm08 wrote: »

Who is discarding him on 10 minutes against the ABs? He has toured Canada & the US with Ireland and got a full game against the Babaas, which is 3 starts at centre. Earls has a couple more caps than he does in that position, but crucially Earls has been able to build his international experience on the wing which is a less demanding position.

I'm saying Kidney is discarding him.He could have gotten a look in during the third NZ test,the most useless of three useless tests,but was left out.Maybe he'll get a look in against Fiji,but unless even more injuries occur,he won't play in the Six Nations.Also,2 of his 3 starts were from three and a half years ago,they can hardly be counted as a reflection of his current (excellent) form.

molloyjh

I can't wait until the end of the AIs so we can see the back of all of this for a while...

Ardillaun

After the events down under, I'm not too frightened by the hazards of a little experimentation. Zebo might drop a few catches at FB but he also has the potential to stretch the Bok defence and give us something to cheer about. I hope Trimble if 11 can ruffle some of Pietersen's feathers and make him give away a penalty or two.

On the scrum half conundrum, it's tempting to go with Murray against those elephants but I'd like to start with Reddan - the passing between him and Sexton has a special zip to it.

Swiwi

molloyjh wrote: »

I can't wait until the end of the AIs so we can see the back of all of this for a while...

Kidney v Someone Else
Leinster fans v Munster fans
Sexton v ROG

Take your pick...

totallegend

Swan Curry wrote: »

Also,I'm listening back to Rugby on Off the Ball and Gerry Thornley just said our only two options at 15 are Zebo and Hurley.How this man is paid to write about rugby is beyond me.

What annoys me about Off The Ball (and I'm a big fan) is a) how Thornley usually just repeats verbatim what he's written in the IT and b) how McDevitt lets him away with murder when it comes to defending Kidney.

But yeah, to say that the only options were Zebo and Hurley is just plain wrong. Thornley knows that but to suggest otherwise could be construed as criticism of Kidney and that just doesn't happen on Gerry's watch.


There was a great moment earlier on Hook's show; he had Tom McGurk on for a couple of minutes, talking about O'Connell's absence:

Hook: Well Tom, who does Declan Kidney play now?
McGurk: There's a very impresssive 20-year old up in Ulster who could be thrown in.
Hook: <deathly silence>... Ah Tom, this is the Springboks we're talking about!

Hook clearly didn't have a rashers who Henderson is, seriously cringe-inducing for a guy who's supposed to be an expert.