Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

ScissorPaperRock

LeftBase wrote: »

Kidney regularly avoids playing Reddan and Sexton because it works.

That's just ridiculous.

Fireball07

bilston wrote: »

Calm down Banbridgeman. Tuohy is unlucky but the other calls have logic to them, whether you agree with it or not is another matter.

I actually think Cave is the most unlucky of the Ulster contingent, although I'd have him in at the expense of Trimble.

Tuohy is a bit unlucky but you couldn't say he was definitely more deserving. Jackson probably should have been on the bench, I don't buy the experience thing tbh...it'd be grand if ROG was playing well too but he's not been in the best of form.

It could be argued that Henderson is a little lucky to get ahead of Locky but I'm delighted Kidney made the decision. Same with Kilcoyne ahead of Court, think he's a much more exciting prospect.

Fireball07

Neil3030 wrote: »

Bit more to playing FB than being good under the high ball. Obviously hope he has a great game, but this is one gamble I'd rather Kidney didn't take, especially against the boks.

It's true, but in an attacking sense, he should be fine too and with the kicking. Defensive positioning could be an issue, but let's see how it goes.

Clegg

Dan Tuohy must feel very hard done by. Conor Murray shouldn't be starting either. Other than that, I have no real problems with the team.

Except for ROG. He's been the worst 10 in Ireland this year and has done nothing to show why he deserves to be in the squad.

awec

Some of those selections make my head hurt.

who_me

Sooo, Kidney is accused of being too conservative with his selections; he brings in Zebo, Strauss, Henry, McCarthy, Henderson, Kilcoyne into the 22 for South Africa. So now he's praised? Yeah, right...

I can't wait until he's gone, and we go back to the halcyon days of RWC '07. :rolleyes:

Benny Cake

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Funny how all the calls I disagree with (Zebo, Murray, POM, O'Gara, DOC) are all Munster players, I feel all 5 have no claim whatsoever over their ulster (and leinster as well in case of Murray) counterparts the only one close is doc and Touhy

I could think of a few other words to decribe your views other than "funny"....

What The?

LeftBase wrote: »

Murray at 9 is a joke. The problem is Deccie will stick that out for 60 mins until the game is lost. THEN he will take Murray off, put Reddan on and most likely take Sexton off with him. Then we'll have good service but no distributor and a turnstile at 10!

Kidney regularly avoids playing Reddan and Sexton because it works and would be a cast iron no brainer. His CLEAR provincial bias is getting beyond a joke now. Munster struggle to compete now in Europe and as a result their players do not play at the Ulster/Leinster level. If Kidney is not sacked soon the Ireland will suffer too!

Glad to see McCarthy and Henry get a look in and very happy to see Heaslip given the armband. Front row looks solid too. POM is a big weakness and I think the Boks know that too. Earls at 13 will be a defensive weakness and I can see a lot of ball being trucked down his channel. Lets just hope be brings his hands with him on Saturday too!

Zebo at 15.......well the Boks will hang it over him all day long and if he can field it there should be no worries...however that's a big enough IF!

Do you honestly believe yourself? Whether you agree or not with his selections and tactics, which both have been questionable, is irrelevant. I'm really interested if you honestly believe that the head coach of Ireland is actually going out of his way make the team fail? Is it not more likely that he picks the team HE believes best to win, but that this team is different to the team YOU believe should be picked?

Clegg

who_me wrote: »

Sooo, Kidney is accused of being too conservative with his selections; he brings in Zebo, Strauss, Henry, McCarthy, Henderson, Kilcoyne into the 22 for South Africa. So now he's praised? Yeah, right...

I can't wait until he's gone, and we go back to the halcyon days of RWC '07. :rolleyes:

Who else was he going to pick then? Everyone else is injured. Henderson and Mc Carthy wouldn't have gotten a look in if POC was fit. Henry wouldn't be in the squad either if SOB and Ferris were fit. Strauss is Irish qualified and is clearly the second best hooker in the country.

This was a default selection from Kidney. He's still persisting with ROG and DOC even though both clearly have nothing positive to offer at international level.

Fireball07

who_me wrote: »

Sooo, Kidney is accused of being too conservative with his selections; he brings in Zebo, Strauss, Henry, McCarthy, Henderson, Kilcoyne into the 22 for South Africa. So now he's praised? Yeah, right...

I can't wait until he's gone, and we go back to the halcyon days of RWC '07. :rolleyes:

Clegg wrote: »

Who else was he going to pick then? Everyone else is injured. Henderson and Mc Carthy wouldn't have gotten a look in if POC was fit. Henry wouldn't be in the squad either if SOB and Ferris were fit. Strauss is Irish qualified and is clearly the second best hooker in the country.

This was a default selection from Kidney. He's still persisting with ROG and DOC even though both clearly have nothing positive to offer at international level.

Two fairly polarising posts and both are wrong imo... the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

This isn't an amazing radical selection by Kidney because yes, there are injuries. If Best, POC, SOB, Ferris & Kearney...they would all be starting, deservedly though. Injuries have forced his hand, so we shouldn't be gushing in our praise of him, we have be realistic.

But on the other hand...as good as POC is, he wouldn't keep both Henderson and McCarthy out of the squad, because he is only one person. If the rumours were true, he'd have been starting with Ryan, with McCarthy on the bench. The inclusion of Henderson and Kilcoyne is fairly progressive, he could easily have played Locky/POM/Heaslip as a back row with someone like Henry or Muldoon on the bench. But he did pick Henry at 7, and moved POM to his preferred 6 with an exciting talent like Henderson on the bench.

And to say DOC "clearly has nothing positive to offer at international level" is horrifically wrong, whether you agree with him being included or not.

freyners

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

While it's great that Kilcoyne and Henderson are on the bench, I'd be surprised if they get on for any reasonable amount of time or at all whether we're winning or losing. Not that they aren't capable but I have no faith in Kidney

harsh on DOC, he might not be the best option any more but nothing to offer, dont be silly

ray jay

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

While it's great that Kilcoyne and Henderson are on the bench, I'd be surprised if they get on for any reasonable amount of time or at all whether we're winning or losing. Not that they aren't capable but I have no faith in Kidney

Yeah as much as people are looking forward to seeing Henderson in action, there's no guarantee he'll come on at all. Of course, there could be a fair bit of attrition in the pack as SA smash anything they can get their hands on.

Banbridgeman2

who_me wrote: »

Sooo, Kidney is accused of being too conservative with his selections; he brings in Zebo, Strauss, Henry, McCarthy, Henderson, Kilcoyne into the 22 for South Africa. So now he's praised? Yeah, right...

I can't wait until he's gone, and we go back to the halcyon days of RWC '07. :rolleyes:

The only choice that wasn't induced by injury there is Kilcoyne!!

Banbridgeman2

Fireball07 wrote: »

Two fairly polarising posts and both are wrong imo... the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

This isn't an amazing radical selection by Kidney because yes, there are injuries. If Best, POC, SOB, Ferris & Kearney...they would all be starting, deservedly though. Injuries have forced his hand, so we shouldn't be gushing in our praise of him, we have be realistic.

But on the other hand...as good as POC is, he wouldn't keep both Henderson and McCarthy out of the squad, because he is only one person. If the rumours were true, he'd have been starting with Ryan, with McCarthy on the bench. The inclusion of Henderson and Kilcoyne is fairly progressive, he could easily have played Locky/POM/Heaslip as a back row with someone like Henry or Muldoon on the bench. But he did pick Henry at 7, and moved POM to his preferred 6 with an exciting talent like Henderson on the bench.

And to say DOC "clearly has nothing positive to offer at international level" is horrifically wrong, whether you agree with him being included or not.

Met a few Leinster lads last weekend and apparently McLaughlin is carrying a niggle which ruled him out.

Fishooks12

To those (well one anyway) speaking of a conspiracy against Ulster look at this, if Best and Ferris were fit a third of the team would be from Ulster, including the captain.

LeftBase

What The? wrote: »

Do you honestly believe yourself? Whether you agree or not with his selections and tactics, which both have been questionable, is irrelevant. I'm really interested if you honestly believe that the head coach of Ireland is actually going out of his way make the team fail? Is it not more likely that he picks the team HE believes best to win, but that this team is different to the team YOU believe should be picked?

I think it is obvious now that Kidney takes too much account of opinions and thoughts from Munster. Playing Reddan and Sexton would mean that Ireland could move the ball quick and play in space like Leinster do. That is what most of the Nation and half of Europe know we should be doing. However playing that game would mean retiring the old warhorses like DOC and to a slightly lesser extent POC in favour of more dynamic second rows. We have the players to play the Leinster game...the game that has conquered Europe...hell a lot of the conquers are Irish qualified, BUT old biad wins through and so we have electric outside backs and dynamic forwards tied into this muck wrestling Munster play of the last decade.

My point is that playing Reddan/Sexton would work, but would mean dropping the old Munster players picked on what now can only be bias! There is of course a place for Ryan, POC and I think a place for Earls on the wing...however the current game plan and selections smack of Munster old boy bias!

irishbucsfan

Leinster wouldn't move the ball quick and play in space against South Africa. That's just one of the points you're completely missing.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Leinster wouldn't move the ball quick and play in space against South Africa. That's just one of the points you're completely missing.

What would they do? Keep it tight? Against South Africa?

blackdog2

Against the springboks, we put an inexperienced winger at fullback? Really?

A dodgy 9 behind an inexperienced pack?

I probably would have gone with DOC in the second row, not a particularly popular choice here but put him at 5, Ryan at 6 and O'Mahoney on the bench and I think we have a better balance. ROG in a VIP box entertaining some sponsors would probably have been my choice as IRFU chairperson. All in an ideal world, obviously...

JRant

I'm delighted for McCarthy, fully deserves this and I hope he lays down a real marker.
Decent looking team, we look very mobile in the tight 5. Now, I hope we use this to our advantage. Can't for the life of me work out why Reddan wasn't picked to play behind that pack, it's pretty much tailor made for him.

Three things I'll be hoping to see on Saturday:

1. A serious improvement in our line speed. It's been woefully inconsistent.

2. The ability to hold on to the ball for more than 2 or 3 phases. On the rare occasions this happens we actually look like a decent bloody team. The rest of the time we treat the ball like the enemy.

3. Get some mismatches going around the park. There's some hefty units in that SA pack that I'm sure Zebo or Bowe would fancy their chances against. Pity Cave isn't playing, I think he would have been the right choice at 13, as he's excellent as releasing others into space.

What The?

LeftBase wrote: »

I think it is obvious now that Kidney takes too much account of opinions and thoughts from Munster. Playing Reddan and Sexton would mean that Ireland could move the ball quick and play in space like Leinster do. That is what most of the Nation and half of Europe know we should be doing. However playing that game would mean retiring the old warhorses like DOC and to a slightly lesser extent POC in favour of more dynamic second rows. We have the players to play the Leinster game...the game that has conquered Europe...hell a lot of the conquers are Irish qualified, BUT old biad wins through and so we have electric outside backs and dynamic forwards tied into this muck wrestling Munster play of the last decade.

My point is that playing Reddan/Sexton would work, but would mean dropping the old Munster players picked on what now can only be bias! There is of course a place for Ryan, POC and I think a place for Earls on the wing...however the current game plan and selections smack of Munster old boy bias!

OK - so you have a different opinion to how the team should be picked and played than Kidney does.

Thats very different from your first statement that said that 'Kidney regularly avoids playing Reddan and Sexton because it works', that in some way he wants the team to fail by only picking weak combinations. Thanks for the clarification as your initial statement made no sense.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

What would they do? Keep it tight? Against South Africa?

Hang on, I never said they'd keep it tight.

Are you suggesting there are only two approaches to a game of rugby: Sling it wide or keep it tight?

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Hang on, I never said they'd keep it tight.

Are you suggesting there are only two approaches to a game of rugby: Sling it wide or keep it tight?

No, I'm asking you what you're suggesting Leinster would do if you don't think they would look to move the ball quickly.

irishbucsfan

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/1108/344750-coaching-notes-ireland-v-south-africa/

McQuilkin's analysis is always a highlight of the international windows

thebaz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Are you suggesting there are only two approaches to a game of rugby: Sling it wide or keep it tight?

in a way yeah , there are 2 approaches , 10 man rugby and expansive - leinster to beat SA would have to be expansive to have any chance

Larbre34

Not a conservative selection, just an unfortunate one. The balance of experience with youth that could have been achieved with guys who are still fit and available is a missed opportunity. Giving youth its head is one thing but when you need a result and there are match fit experienced guys used to winning big cup games available its foolhardy not to use them

That pack lacks an experienced core and having debutants for both replacement props could be disastrous up against a mix of the Beast, du Plessis and Van der Linde. Im expecting the unexpected from Francois Louw as well, he was a stand out player in a poor Bath squad.

Too soon for Kilcoyne and Henderson, Fiji game is ideal for them

I would change:

4. McCarthy Leo Cullen 6. O'Mahony K McLaughlin 9. Murray Reddan

17. Kilcoyne Court 19. O'Callaghan McCarthy 20. Henderson O'Mahony 21. Reddan Murray

Foxtrol

Ok so if the rumours of the knocks are true then once again a forward thinking squad selection is forced upon Kidney.

To be honest I’m happy enough with the side with the exception of DOC, ROG, Murray and Zebo who should swap with Tuohy, Jackson, Redden and Cave (Zebo knocking McFadden off the bench). I would be more annoyed about these choices but I never actually believed any of the above wouldn't make the 23 with Kidney’s Munster favouring selection policy.

wouldn't have Cullen anywhere near the starting 15!

ssaye

Happy overall.

Delighted for Jamie. You really miss him when he doesn't play. His tackling count and turnovers and control at the base of the scrum are vital.
Leinster miss him when unavailable dearly as we do not have an 8 anyway near his abililty and he did not play in the 60-0 drubbing for Ireland too.


Here's to starting a new undefeated record as Irish captain for this series in anyway.

If Strauss gets his darts right, he is phenomenal in the loose.
New 2nd row is very interesting and I wish them the best.

I see a huge game for POM and Henry, they will be absolutely buzzing, a huge chance with Fez and SOB out.

I would have liked to get Earls, Cave and Bowe on the pitch but two out of 3 aint bad and Zebo has been very good under high ball and I see try for him in this game from a set play. If he gets his positioning correct and just gets rid of it for the first 10-15 minutes to ease his way into the game it could be the making of him.

I wanted to be entertained by Ireland again and this lineup is exciting.

Great impact of the bench and I can't wait.

Much more positives than negatives.

C'Mon Ireland

Scioch

I have decided it doesnt matter. Kidney is a joke and no matter how anyone sees the selections I think we are all (bar a couple in denial) waiting for him to move on and looking forward to a decent coach moving the team forward.

So until then the selections are by and large meaningless in the grand scheme of things and its pointless to argue about it at this stage. Good luck to all the players selected, congrats to Jamie getting the captaincy, hope they play well and I hope we can give the Boks a good game, perhaps even sneak a cheeky win.

Commiserations to those who were unlucky to miss out and I hope the next coach gives them the opportunity they deserve.

Black jersey in the post, 66 euro on its way to the IRFU (after elvery's take their cut) and looking forward to the game on Saturday. Cmon Ireland.