Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

leonard7

WARNING an attempt at a non bias post!

As an Ulster fan i'd have to say/admit a few things from today this is all opinion so try not to get knickers in twists here folks.

1. Zebo is more ready than Gilroy...gilroy is good in fact very good but he (on this day 10th Nov 2012) is not as good (or im gonna pussy out and say not as ready) as Bowe, Trimble, Earls and admittedly Zebo ( damn that hurts to say but credit where credit is due)

2. Sean O'Brien, Ferris, Heaslip when fit but Henry when O'Brien is out and Henderson when Ferris is out.

3. Murray and Reddan are both better starters than Marshall but Marshall is better off the bench than both of them.

4. Best isn't as far ahead of Strauss as i originally thought missed his leadership though.

5. You picked yourself last season Touhy but dropped off form this season fully expect you to get back to it but until then the right locks were chosen today.

6. I've noticed that i am infact very bias against Munster players and never was before... damn boards!

7. Rob Howley proved to me today the difference a coach can make

8. Rob Kearney is a handsome devil but was outshone by Gabby Logan

Fishooks12

1. Zebo is more ready than Gilroy...gilroy is good in fact very good but he (on this day 10th Nov 2012) is not as good (or im gonna pussy out and say not as ready) as Bowe, Trimble, Earls and admittedly Zebo ( damn that hurts to say but credit where credit is due)

It's no slight on Gilroy. Zebo is in fantastic form. I'd rate Gilroy over Trimble right now too. As much as I like him I just think Gilroy offers a lot more


2

. Sean O'Brien, Ferris, Heaslip when fit but Henry when O'Brien is out and Henderson when Ferris is out.

I think Henderson has to show a bit more at test level to push POM out, who despite not being great today has been solid in the past for us at 6. I don't think there's much between them right now though and a good run out against Fiji should make things a little clearer

3. Murray and Reddan are both better starters than Marshall but Marshall is better off the bench than both of them.

Hard to tell really considering Marshall has yet to be given a real chance. He's playing better than both of them IMO

4. Best isn't as far ahead of Strauss as i originally thought missed his leadership though.

tbh there isn't much between Best and Strauss. It's going to be a huge call come January. Two of the best hookers in the NH, and the winner of the battle should inherit the Lions 2 shirt too

5. You picked yourself last season Touhy but dropped off form this season fully expect you to get back to it but until then the right locks were chosen today.

Yep, spot on

6. I've noticed that i am infact very bias against Munster players and never was before... damn boards!

You don't really!

8. Rob Kearney is a handsome devil but was outshone by Gabby Logan

Whatever floats your boat!

LeftBase

I was at today's game and I found it a little weird. I have been working overseas the last while and was glad to be home and back in familiar surroundings.

The way I see it a very average Irish selection was helped to a half time lead against a cack South African team by DeVilliers' constant moaning at Mr Barnes in the 1st half and the bias it translated to on the penalty count.
I thought both teams were poor however Ireland were poor because it was clear many of our players were living a way beyond their means! While the Boks were rubbish a lot of the game and played the typical whinging Bok card more than once(with the traditional off the ball scum tackle thrown in) their players looked comfortable with the level of rugby and they could slow it down and let a load off when needed. A lot of Irish players looked as if they were straining to be at 110% capacity just to compete!
Zebo did well at 15 and was better than I thought. McCarthy was also a big player. POM did what he could but this level is a level too high for him at this stage. Strauss was his usually round the park self, Earls is not an international 13, but he was helped by the fact we dropped back rows into the centre to help him where we could, he attacked well but would have been better with space on the wing or full back...where I think he should be playing, and special mention to Irish Rugby's newest celeb Bent, who I believe won us a penalty at the scrum when he came on!:D

For me the game ended on a sad note...a phase of play that I believe was a milestone in Irish rugby history.....and that is the end of ROG's meaningful international career. For me the guy has no place in the national team and I frankly believe if he had any class at all he'd step aside and let the new crop into the squad. He kicked the ball away and with it the game when there was plenty of players around him to reset another phase and go for the try.
Furthermore in the first half when Sexton was down injured there were audible gasps and groans as people realised that if he were to go off ROG would be in and the Boks would get at least 2 tries down his channel. Sometimes you can feel when something is done with just by the atmosphere and reaction of fans post game....for me ROG has passed into the international mist.

Before the last scrum was set I was shouting loudly for Sexton(who was at 12) to get hold of ROG, put him on the wing, get McFadden at 12 and go to 10. That would have given us the chance of going the distance.....but alas no...ROG blew it for us. What irks me more is that if he was in a red jersey that ball would most likely have stayed in hand. Must be something about the Boks that makes him **** the game away in the last minute....

Madigan at 10 v Fiji screams so loudly I have no idea how it is missed......

Hersheys

Agree with all except bring on Jackson for Fiji - better player at the moment. And that's from a Leinster fan!

LeftBase

Hersheys wrote: »

Agree with all except bring on Jackson for Fiji - better player at the moment. And that's from a Leinster fan!

Play Madigan at 15 then and give him 10-15 mins at 10.

Baker87

LeftBase wrote: »

Before the last scrum was set I was shouting loudly for Sexton(who was at 12) to get hold of ROG, put him on the wing, get McFadden at 12 and go to 10. That would have given us the chance of going the distance.....but alas no...

I think you might be overestimating the effect "man shouting from crowd" has on a professional rugby team!

SomeFool

LeftBase wrote: »

Play Madigan at 15 then and give him 10-15 mins at 10.

Beyond daft sir. I'd have no problem with Madigan involved as a 10 but to suggest he is worth a start at FB is wrong and would be a disservice to him.

I usually lurk here but i am really heartbroken with todays game. I thought the lads left everything on the pitch but as has happened before small margins were the difference.

Finally, I'm not going to look back on the thread, (not brave enough for the match one either) but I'm guessing tis not good, I think today was the end of ROG, not just as an international player but as Munsters No 1 too. If the most proactive thing a playmaker has to offer is kicking the ball to the opposition when you need it the most then his race is run. He is not the bench option to change or chase a game.

I'm a big Munster fan, a big ROG fan over the years but his time is up. I remember when Strings came on the scene and was starting at Munster while Tirerney was still starting for Ireland so change at International level seems to take longer in Ireland, I will never understand why but it is a reoccuring theme which stifles our national side despite the growth and success of the provinces. I have never seen the ****ing Kiwis folllow a similar rationale

totallegend

onwards and hopefully upwards. Who would people like to see next week? Think I'd like to see something like;
Kearney
Gilroy
Cave
McFadden
Zebo
Jackson
Marshall
Kilcoyne
Strauss
Bent
Tuohy
Henderson
Muldoon
Henry
POM

The likes of Healy,Ross, Heaslip and Sexton simply cannot be risked against Fiji. There's definitely an argument for keeping Zebo at FB which is probably what Kidney will do but I think I'd like to see other people tried there.

It's a no win game. If we hammer them, well that's what was expected so I'm not sure how valuable an exercise it will be.

CatFromHue

I wouldn't be too keen to see McFadden at 12, I'd much prefer to see Marshall.

twinytwo

LeftBase wrote: »

Before the last scrum was set I was shouting loudly for Sexton(who was at 12) to get hold of ROG, put him on the wing, get McFadden at 12 and go to 10. That would have given us the chance of going the distance.....but alas no...ROG blew it for us. What irks me more is that if he was in a red jersey that ball would most likely have stayed in hand. Must be something about the Boks that makes him **** the game away in the last minute....

So.... we didnt even look like scoring a try for 80 mins but you think that we were somehow going to go 50 meters and score with no time left????

.... this aint munster, ireland cant do 40 phases

.ak

twinytwo wrote: »

So.... we didnt even look like scoring a try for 80 mins but you think that we were somehow going to go 50 meters and score with no time left????

.... this aint munster, ireland cant do 40 phases

No, it was never going to happen realistically, but in those situations you need to back yourself. It was more likely to happen than chipping over the top to sweeping defenders.

totallegend

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't be too keen to see McFadden at 12, I'd much prefer to see Marshall.

No objection to Marshall but realistically there's a limit to how many new faces we'll see. I'd expect most of yesterday's bench to start so McFadden will appear somewhere.

phog

Where is McFaddens best position?

.ak

phog wrote: »

Where is McFaddens best position?

For me it's 12. His offloading ability has gotten better over the past season, and he generally breaks the gain line easily enough, he has massive power in his legs and powers through defenders much bigger than him. I'd hope he could improve his technique going into the tackle, but other than that it's all that sets him apart from being a solid international 12.

He's fine on the wing, good work rate, and a decent finisher with plenty of gas... but he doesn't have the x-factor the likes of Gilroy or Zebo might have.

jamiedav2011

phog wrote: »

Where is McFaddens best position?

12 definitely, closely followed by 14, though he's not nearly the best winger we have, and probably not international standard in that position.

He'd not within an asses roar of being a 13 in my view.

irishbucsfan

He's played his rugby at the highest level on the wing. It seems to be 12 though. The only issue is that he's effectively a failed 13 that has been moved inside, so the more time we can get him at 12 the better.

It'll be interesting to see if he can put D'Arcy under pressure before the end of the season.

jamiedav2011

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's played his rugby at the highest level on the wing. It seems to be 12 though. The only issue is that he's effectively a failed 13 that has been moved inside, so the more time we can get him at 12 the better.

It'll be interesting to see if he can put D'Arcy under pressure before the end of the season.

In fairness, he's played most of his rugby on the wing in the HEC because of injuries. He's also played centre on numerous occasions in the HEC, though not 12 iirc.

Don't think he'll ever be the quality of Darce though.

Tox56

Don't think McFadden will ever be the quality of Darce either, but as it stands right now I think he's pretty close. He was very good early in the season after he got a run of games there. It's so hard for him to get that (particularly at 12) because of his versatility (and D'Arcy), but I'm confident he will eventually play most of his rugby at 12, I just hope that is sooner rather than later.

sixy

dont think earls is a 13, his passing is average enough

goreyguy

Earls is a better wing imo.

Would really like Cave to get a chance versus Arg.

Fishooks12

sixy wrote: »

dont think earls is a 13, his passing is average enough

It's gas how these kinds of comments crop up after one badly thrown pass.

Even BOD does that on occasion

.ak

Yesterday Earls wasn't bad, but for me he just looked like a winger looking for work. I still don't think he has the attributes to be a 13.

Having said that, I don't mind him filling in for BOD, as he's still an excellent player... It just felt we were playing with 4 wingers yesterday.

Cave has done more than enough to be selected. I'd be miffed if McFadden was ahead of him especially.

Fishooks12

tbh the one area Earls is missing from his 13 play is his lack of ability to offload in or near contact. His passing is fine though

sixy

not just one bad pass, how often do you see him put one of the back 3 through a gap, needs a season or 2 more at 13 with munster before he should be playing there for ireland

thomond2006

sixy wrote: »

not just one bad pass, how often do you see him put one of the back 3 through a gap, needs a season or 2 more at 13 with munster before he should be playing there for ireland

Earls is not the only Irish 13 guilty of poor passing, BOD has been guilty of it too. McFadden doesn't pass at all. Does Earls need 2 or 3 more seasons at 13 with Munster? I suppose it would help but I think he's grand tbh. Cave really needs to be given a shot, but not because Earls should be dropped.

On another note, I don't think we're going to beat the Argies. Because of injuries to Ferris and O'Brien, we lack the class and power to deal with their backrow of Senatore, Leguizamon and Lobbe. They are all very physical and are genuine ball players. Senatore was at Toulon last year as a medical joker (to cover for Lobbe ironically), but they wouldn't keep him because of his international commitments.

In the last few years they have developed some excellent backs too. Their Pampas XV side in the Vodacom Cup in SA is really working for them, a lot of the current young crop have come through that side.

Plus Argentina more than anyone rely on pure emotion, a very intangible thing. They'll have a field day against a team low on confidence.

LeftBase

Baker87 wrote: »

I think you might be overestimating the effect "man shouting from crowd" has on a professional rugby team!

Yeh but that has never stopped a large proportion of the crowd!

One of the things I found interesting after the game was the provincial dialogue I had in the pub after. My brother in law is from Galway and we both got chatting to a couple who were Ulster/Munster. I realised that as a Leinster fan I am a little bit spoiled. Leinster could easily go 80m in a few phases and score a try and that is what I have come to expect from my rugby teams.

The bottom line here is that we have 2 provinces, Ulster and Leinster who are competing well in Europe and have young players that are prospects for the future at this level. For me Munster have a problem and that is problem is the fact their players are not up to the level of HEC/International and a rubbish SA team dominated many of them. Looking into the 6N and assuming we have a full panel to pick from the selections of Murray at 9, Earls at 13 and ROG at all should be seriously looked at.

Jamie as Captain was good on field but he was totally screwed by the ref who kept telling him "if you complain at every penalty it loses effect" despite the face DeVilliers spent the ENTIRE match whinging and moaning about everything! I thought Barnes has a pretty average game. Not one of his classic shockers but he managed the game badly.

Beyond daft sir. I'd have no problem with Madigan involved as a 10 but to suggest he is worth a start at FB is wrong and would be a disservice to him.

Madigan is actually a 15 not a 10. He just became a 10 with Leinster. He played 15 against Munster and in the HEC.

sixy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Earls is not the only Irish 13 guilty of poor passing, BOD has been guilty of it too. McFadden doesn't pass at all. Does Earls need 2 or 3 more seasons at 13 with Munster? I suppose it would help but I think he's grand tbh. Cave really needs to be given a shot, but not because Earls should be dropped.

On another note, I don't think we're going to beat the Argies. Because of injuries to Ferris and O'Brien, we lack the class and power to deal with their backrow of Senatore, Leguizamon and Lobbe. They are all very physical and are genuine ball players. Senatore was at Toulon last year as a medical joker (to cover for Lobbe ironically), but they wouldn't keep him because of his international commitments.

In the last few years they have developed some excellent backs too. Their Pampas XV side in the Vodacom Cup in SA is really working for them, a lot of the current young crop have come through that side.

Plus Argentina more than anyone rely on pure emotion, a very intangible thing. They'll have a field day against a team low on confidence.

I dont mean to pick on earls, I really like him as a player, he does need to improve this area of his game though

Worried about Argie game as well, they looked good yesterday

goreyguy

Healy - 7.5
Strauss - 6
Ross - 6
Ryan - 6
McCarthy -7.5
O'Mahony- 5.5
Henry - 6.5
Heaslip - 6
Murray - 6
Sexton - 6.5
Trimble - 5.5
Darcy - 5.5
Earls - 6
Bowe - 6.5
Zebo - 6

Front row was good until Ross slowed in the second half, lineout struggled. Backrow was a mixed bag.
Pleased by Murray's improvement, still a way to go but it gives you some hope he can get there.
Backline was a shambles.

Hagz

LeftBase wrote: »

Madigan is actually a 15 not a 10. He just became a 10 with Leinster. He played 15 against Munster and in the HEC.

What do you mean "Madigan is actually a 15"? How so? He played the majority of his school rugby at 10, and club rugby. I know he played u20 level at 15, but that was because he was in the same age-bracket as McKinley. He's a 10 first and foremost, who's able to slot in at 15.

Fishooks12

Madigan has the potential to be a brilliant 10. But I don't think he's anything more than emergency cover at 15